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We're making this alloy from UBC at a facility I'm a part owner of overseas. I would like to market this here in the U.S. but I'm having trouble identifying it's series.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dV...=w1092-h606-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4P...=w1198-h480-no
No offense, but you MAKE Aluminum alloys and you don't know what it is, how do you expect us to know?
I dont make them. I own a facility overseas that makes them. I'm not a scrapper or a metal enthusiast. Just business.Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste
Yeah that alloy dosen't line up very well huh
My best guess is you have 6061 with low Ti and high Cr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy
A quick Google search shows that this is either a proprietary alloy, or not a very common one. Check this wikipedia page showing the percentages of various elements, it does not really match anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy
What part of "the facility is overseas" don't you comprehend? Believe it or not, there are metallurgist overseas that have 0 concept of American trade names. Thanks for the input.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralAluminum
Googled and checked that Wiki before I posted on here. Went on Matweb's database as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste
Our Manganese levels are considerably higher at 0.80-1.10%Quote:
Originally Posted by NHscrapman
Is this difference negligible or important?
Who is your plant selling to? That should give some insight into what the alloy is good for. Maybe you could then search the product literature for those buyers of your product.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAInt
Sorry that you had to get some disrespect here, but it does leave one scratching their head a bit. I have not been successful in business myself but I do my share of reading. Even Warren Buffett says that you should never invest in a business you do not understand. Good luck!
The manganese levels are high because it's UBC AL
they typically run around 1% manganese 1% magnesium.
It may matter to buyers but I cannot say for sure.
Not sure here but if the only things being put into the pots is cans then you have a can alloy...
South Asian traders are our primary customers. They buy it and ship it back to their countries, most of them are involved in the auto part manufacturing industry. This alloy however doesn't look like a die cast in terms of composition.Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
The Si ( silicon ) content makes this a casting alloy.
The nearest alloy composition I could find is 1060 used in electrical, it is extruded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1060_aluminium_alloy
1060 aluminium alloy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1060 aluminium alloy is an aluminium-based alloy in the "commercially pure" wrought family (1000 or 1xxx series). It is fundamentally very similar to 1050 aluminium alloy, with the difference coming down to 0.1% aluminium by weight. However, while both 1050 and 1060 are covered by the same ISO standard, they are covered by different ASTM standards.
As a wrought alloy, it is typically formed by extrusion or rolling. It is commonly used in the electrical and chemical industries, on account of having high electrical conductivity, corrosion resistance, and workability. It has low mechanical strength compared to more significantly alloyed metals. It can be strengthened by cold working, but not by heat treatment.[1]
Alternate designations include Al99.6 and A91060. It is described in the following standards:[2]
- ASTM B 209: Standard Specification for Aluminum and Aluminum-Alloy Sheet and Plate
- ASTM B 210: Standard Specification for Aluminum and Aluminum-Alloy Drawn Seamless Tubes
- ASTM B 211: Standard Specification for Aluminum and Aluminum-Alloy Bar, Rod, and Wire
- ASTM B 221: Standard Specification for Aluminum and Aluminum-Alloy Extruded Bars, Rods, Wire, Profiles, and Tubes
- ASTM B 483: Standard Specification for Aluminum and Aluminum-Alloy Drawn Tube and Pipe for General Purpose Applications
- ISO 6361: Wrought Aluminium and Aluminium Alloy Sheets, Strips and Plates
Chemical Composition
The alloy composition of 1060 aluminium is:[2]
Most likely the United States has different alloy requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAInt
If this is All from drink cans, you should probably contact BALL metal, as they produce a large percentage of the Al cans used for drink production. They would be able to tell you what the exact alloy composition should be.
I think what most people find confusing is that while you state that you own this company, it doesn't seem like you understand the type of alloys your company is making. Did I misunderstand something? Do you really not understand the industry you take part in or who your buyers would be?
Understand your input material, it's origin, composition, contact those companies they deal in All as they would have the answers you are looking for, or end manufacturers such as BALL metal that produces Al cans for drinks.
Simple, logical, not sure I understand why this seems so difficult for you unless you are just a broker looking to sell a companies product in the US.
You should also realize that it is a very expensive proposition to refine Al, as it requires electrolytic refining using a specific mineral in it's molten state. If your Al was refined, it would be far easier to locate buyers. If the company you are having as broker for has the ability to also refine, you might have a lucrative and viable business in that you could send them Al scrap, have it refined and then sell to anyone in the world that uses Al. As a broker, you could easily make a g9d living if dealing with large quantities.
And in certain states, you can be paid to buy back Al cans, etc. And then sell the product to a company to refine, or have it refined yourself then selling the refined product to an end user.
I find it exceedingly difficult to imagine any situation where you might own a company overseas, that deals with Al alloy scrap and not understand your Al alloy well enough to understand your market. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Alternatively, you could have your Al assayed, get a certificate as to the alloy composition and type, and then locate the proper market.
Regardless, there is something you are either not being honest about, or are utterly clueless about, that you have not expressed. Being honest is paramount if you honestly intend to do any business in the metal markets in the US. The laws are strict, and importing metals also very strict.
Scott
The company you claim to own, or be part owner of, sounds like it's just melting scrap metals of unknown alloys, which is scrap metal not a refined, end product. I saw in one of your other posts where you state Al sells for X amount, but you are selling your for a higher price because it's whatever alloy you are melting, and you seem to believe that since it's already alloyed in the specific way it's worth more.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAInt
First problem you have is that your metal is scrap, not, I repeat NOT a refined end product. Anytime you melt a particular metal, specially metals like Al, you have a loss of a certain percentage of related to specific metals in the alloy you are melting, that changes the alloy composition. Your alloy is not assayed nor certified, so all you have is scrap Al, with impurities that would require refining. Thus your alloy would not be valued as pure Al and certainly not a certified alloy. That means you can only ask for scrap value, and since the cost to refine is expensive, the price your recycled and melted alloy might bring would be of far less value.
I would suggest, buffering whatever metals are required to certify your Al alloy for US consumption. This can be expensive in and of itself.
Again, it disturbs me you claim to be part owner in this company, and have no clue as to these issues. You should have experienced these issues if selling certified alloys. Otherwise I can only assume your company has a melt furnace, and just throwing scrap in, to melt, and attempting to market this recycled Al with impurities as a certified alloy, ready to use.
Have you had this alloy properly assayed? After melting, you would notice % changes in the alloy composition. You should at least be using an XRF to check alloy composition prior to melting so that you might formulate the proper flux components, and after melting prior to sending off for proper assay and certification. It doesn't seem per your post that your recycling company has a proper metallurgist on the payroll.
Trying to sell your material as a proper alloy really amounts to criminal activity. As a refiner, I find this exceedingly distasteful.
And what is the name of your company?
Scott
I'm thinking company "A" prepares proprietary alloy recipe for company "B" who use the finished alloy or sell it to other companies and that the OP has taken notice of the amount being shipped from company "A" and that he has hopes of capitalising in other markets outside of Asia where patents may not apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks
Like the man said he's a businessman and we all know these come in many flavours.
I am utterly baffled why you believe that someone who is a scrapper or metal enthusiast would be able to help you. If this is a real company in operation, why don't you have a metallurgist working with or for you to facilitate your intentions? Why have you not sought the proper method of preparing your Al alloy prior to attempting to find a buyer? Why have you not utilized the volumes of experience and knowledge you have access to using simply google searches?Quote:
Originally Posted by AAInt
As well, have you donated to this site? That at the very least seems like the proper thing to do, since you are part owner in this company and you must have some funds to invest in asking people for help. I'm not sure if you understand the value of the information you are requesting. I would expect you to either hire someone with the knowledge and experience, or pay them a consulting fee to help you realize your intent, or at the very least offer to pay them in some way.
We help each other on this site. As a business, I have donated to this site, I believe it only right considering the wealth of information at my fingertips or using a simple forum search. I would suggest you do the same if your intent is to use the information, that has real value to someone like you if what you have stated is in fact truth. You would stand to make a sizable profit, and that profit would be as a direct result of asking questions here and receiving valuable answers.
Just the information that has been freely given in this thread in regards to your question has value. For that information alone, even if you never glean any other useful information, you should donate something to this site so that it might increase it's financial independence and continue to provide a place for all those who have helped you, and those who contribute to the knowledge base of this site.
Considering how very little good solid information is floating around the internet, in this industry, free of charge. And considering that this is probably the single most important internet resource in regards to scrap metal, I would encourage you to make a reasonable donation to this site if your intent is to profit from the information you receive in regards to your questions.
I have owned several businesses, yet still I cannot fathom or reason you seemingly utter lack of understanding in regards to what you are asking. Or in your complete lack of knowledge as to how this industry works, specially since you live in the United States.
One more suggestion. You may benefit from contacting the US Embassy in the country of your companies origin. They have people on staff, who's sole intent is to help facilitate trade between the United States and other countries. They should be able to provide you with a wealth of information, as they have been trained and work to facilitate business with companies like the one you say you are part owner in. I spent many years in the international trade arena, and that's really what it is like an arena. I cannot even begin to express what an important resource the American Embassy can be in regards to international trade.
My comments might seem snarky, but I am asking them seriously as it really does shock me that you seem to have no knowledge about the industry your company is involved in. If anything I have said or suggested is outside what is actually true, then please state it and I will apologize, happily, in this thread. I tend to say exactly what I think and feel without reservation, my intent is not to insult but instead understand what seems to be incongruent to me in regards to your business and your questions.
Scott
As a business that deals in processing aluminum scrap, would it not be beneficial to yourself, those you both buy and sell product, to know how to accurately identify aluminum alloys, especially the most common?
Is it easy? Is it expensive? Do you need to?
Answers: All depends on methods you use, Not expensive compared to the possible grater financial returns you could expect with a positive identification method. Only you can answer do you need to!
XRF (X-Ray Fluorescence) Scanners start at $10k and higher, need some training and need periodic calibration. They have become the standard and basic tool in your type of business. I would think a "no-brainer". There are much less expensive acid based test kits available, these use a spot testing method and have been in use for many years. You could also send samples to a independent metal testing lab.
You might even want to do in house XRF and/or spot test kit and a independent lab that will utilize metallurgical testing procedures. Doing so will only add value to your product and open up new opportunities for your company.
Our stuff maxes out at 97% for Aluminium, it looks to be a 6000 series alloy like you mentioned earlier. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by alloy2