First Possible Return from Ebay - Page 3

Originally Posted by BumpRacerX

I would rather not say what the item is and give away my niche. He's already shipping it back and sent me return tracking info. It's completely possible that it broke in transit, but is much more likely that he's swapping my good one out with his bad one. It really is a cost of doing business, I have never had a return on one these though, so it makes me kinda scratch my head.

I can appreciate that. Just curious is all.



If there is anything on it like serial numbers, etc, one suggestion is to take pictures of it BEFORE you ship it. So if things like this happen, and they don't send back the right one, then you have some recourse.

I got a question for you GEO. If your having them ship you back a stick of ram are you documenting the serial numbers of the ram sticks your sending them? I am getting alot more returns on my ebay purchases lately as well. Just last week I sold a hard drive I know was in perfect working order. They said when they got it it wouldnt even boot up. I had them send it back and sure enuff wouldnt boot up. Now whats to say they didnt just swap the board out from my drive to thiers? No way to track something like this but I seriously believe thats what happened. Im looking to order warranty stickers as we speak. When it comes to ram though you can take a stick of ram that doesnt work. Pull it out and put it right back in the same slot and it will start working. Someone tells me they got a ram stick that doesnt work and they have good feedback I believe them and just refund the money. Not worth the headache anymore. Now if its an item like a laptop or something worth $100 you better believe im making them send it back.

Originally Posted by PartTimeScrapper

I got a question for you GEO. If your having them ship you back a stick of ram are you documenting the serial numbers of the ram sticks your sending them? I am getting alot more returns on my ebay purchases lately as well. Just last week I sold a hard drive I know was in perfect working order. They said when they got it it wouldnt even boot up. I had them send it back and sure enuff wouldnt boot up. Now whats to say they didnt just swap the board out from my drive to thiers? No way to track something like this but I seriously believe thats what happened. Im looking to order warranty stickers as we speak. When it comes to ram though you can take a stick of ram that doesnt work. Pull it out and put it right back in the same slot and it will start working. Someone tells me they got a ram stick that doesnt work and they have good feedback I believe them and just refund the money. Not worth the headache anymore. Now if its an item like a laptop or something worth $100 you better believe im making them send it back.

Since I plan to build VIP Recycling to the best possible company that I can (probably the first offline company I have ever owned, aside from real estate), I document every single thing I do.

For ram and hard drives, I simply take my camcorder and soom in on the label....it gives me the serial number, and all other information.

Plus, when I am listing the items on ebay, I make sure the serial numbers are in the title, and so if I have to go back and look at the listing, I can see the close up pictures, the title, everything.

Plus, I have a HUGE external hard drive (getting ready to upgrade to a 1tb one actually), and I create folders for each thing I sell. Then inside the folders, I place pictures of the individual items, then I take screen captures (and then edit them in pain or photoshop) and put those in the folders, and then I take a screen capture of the shipping manifest and include that as well into the file. (I dont actually print one out)

So far, works great. I see a lot of listings where they use stock images, etc. I don't use stock images for anything.

Serial numbers, warranty stickers, void if removed, etc make no difference in the world of Paypal.

Paypal checks to confirm that the buyers tracking number confirms return delivery to the seller. If it does, you're screwed. You could get back your unit broken, a different unit, a box of parts, or worse yet, air. It's very hard to win a case with Paypal, regardless of beginning photos, stickers, marks, etc.

Originally Posted by BumpRacerX

It's very hard to win a case with Paypal, regardless of beginning photos, stickers, marks, etc.

They've never gone up against George's Legal Staff though...

Originally Posted by KZBell

They've never gone up against George's Legal Staff though...

o how I've missed your comments.

like many will tell you....win or loose, its the principal that matters.

Originally Posted by volvoscrapper

George I admire your thoroughness. Personally I'd rather smack myself in the head with a hammer than do all this, but hey, sounds like you have a system.

Regardless of who you do business with, and what kind of business you own/run/manage, there will always be crooks out there.

If you run things a certain way, and ever have to sue someone for any reason, it is just more firepower in your pocket. Other wise, it is better to stick the tail behind the legs and pray it never happens again.

Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper

Yeah good luck with that.

I may have missed it, but how much did this RAM cost you?

Nothing...All ewaste I get is 100% free, through a few commercial clients. I have only paid once, and that was to a small pc repair operation.

Even if I had, that isn't the point. The point is, is whether you are selling online or offline, if someone says something is defective, the seller will want the merchandise back, before they issue you a refund. Try going to best buy and purchase anything from them, or any other retailer, buy something, and then say, I need my $$$ back, because you sold me defective equipment. They will first tell you to provide them the equipment...if you do, you have a chance...if not, will regardless of a receipt, you wont get a refund.

That is my point. Regardless if it is ebay, or anyone else, that is just plain business practice. You never take someone at their word. If ebay/paypal cannot understand how normal business practice like that really and truly works, then I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out they have been sued before, and most likely settled to avoid being in the news.

Originally Posted by Phantoms001

I totally understand your point, I do agree with you 100%, but the reality is that this is not the way it works in real life. Walmart will give you a refund on things purchased at other stores (people come in with no receipt and if they make enough noise they will get store credit), restaurants comp meals all the time that someone says was bad (even though they ate most of it), Paypal and Ebay are going to side with the Buyer, they have to in order to stay in business.

It sounds like your problem is that you need to decide on what fights are worth fighting.

Ebay and Paypal are both designed to protect the BUYER. You can do a google search on "screwed selling on ebay" and will find THOUSANDS of complaints from sellers that just got the short end of the stick. The more searches you do the more complaints you will find. I've seen people have tens of thousands of dollars frozen in their paypal account.

I have better things to do with my time then fight a losing battle with Paypal over a few dollars. As I said before, this is the reason I do not sell high dollar items on ebay. I will find another outlet. You should be completely prepared to LOSE anything you are selling on ebay and eat the shipping costs.

I could buy your RAM, send you a message via ebay that it was bad, send you an empty padded envelope with tracking, and guarantee you 100% I would get my money back while keeping the memory. Other posters here will tell you the same thing. It's part of doing business on Ebay, you just hope you avoid the slugs and honest people buy.

By all means, run your business what ever way makes you happy and the most money. I'm certainly not criticizing your practices or ethics. I'm just give you a few thoughts so that you don't have to learn an expensive lesson the hard way. Why reinvent the wheel?

True, and I understand fully on how ebay and paypal work. They are in it for the people who make THEM money. What they don't get and understand, is that it is BOTH the seller AND buyers that make them money. Without one, there is no other.

If someone tried to mess me over on a deal, I wouldn't worry about handling it through ebay and paypal. What everyone does keep forgetting though, is that when you complete a transaction, you have the buyers/sellers information. As long as you keep good records, you deal with paypal and ebay to keep good with them, and you sue the buyer/seller outside of ebay.

Again, this isn't about the worth of an item, or what someone sells it for, or reputation, etc. It is just the principal of the matter.

Also, yes, I agree that Walmart and many restaurants do this all the time. That is their business model, but they are most likely the only retailers/restaurant you will ever find that will.

Businesses are not in business to get screwed over. They are in business to make money and treat customers the right way, but it is a 2 way street.

Even if a buyer bought an item (ram or other wise) and they had any issues with it, I would just ask for it back, and then refund them their money. I wouldn't care if it was really broken or not. If not, I will just resale it. If it is broken, to scrap it goes.

Even if you put in the listings that all items are sold as is, no refunds...that alone is a joke, since ebay and paypal don't care and will do it in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by Phantoms001

I totally understand your point, I do agree with you 100%, but the reality is that this is not the way it works in real life. Walmart will give you a refund on things purchased at other stores (people come in with no receipt and if they make enough noise they will get store credit), restaurants comp meals all the time that someone says was bad (even though they ate most of it), Paypal and Ebay are going to side with the Buyer, they have to in order to stay in business.

It sounds like your problem is that you need to decide on what fights are worth fighting.

Ebay and Paypal are both designed to protect the BUYER. You can do a google search on "screwed selling on ebay" and will find THOUSANDS of complaints from sellers that just got the short end of the stick. The more searches you do the more complaints you will find. I've seen people have tens of thousands of dollars frozen in their paypal account.

I have better things to do with my time then fight a losing battle with Paypal over a few dollars. As I said before, this is the reason I do not sell high dollar items on ebay. I will find another outlet. You should be completely prepared to LOSE anything you are selling on ebay and eat the shipping costs.

I could buy your RAM, send you a message via ebay that it was bad, send you an empty padded envelope with tracking, and guarantee you 100% I would get my money back while keeping the memory. Other posters here will tell you the same thing. It's part of doing business on Ebay, you just hope you avoid the slugs and honest people buy.

By all means, run your business what ever way makes you happy and the most money. I'm certainly not criticizing your practices or ethics. I'm just give you a few thoughts so that you don't have to learn an expensive lesson the hard way. Why reinvent the wheel?

This is 100% correct.

If you sell on eBay and collect payments via paypal, you will almost certainly run into this eventually. And when you do, I don't care how good your legal team, documentation, etc is. You will lose. Paypal has been sued numerous times, has a history of going to court over incredibly small/petty claims, and has (since) restricted its user base from being able to file certain types of suits against them. It's all in the fine print.

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

True, and I understand fully on how ebay and paypal work. They are in it for the people who make THEM money. What they don't get and understand, is that it is BOTH the seller AND buyers that make them money. Without one, there is no other.

If someone tried to mess me over on a deal, I wouldn't worry about handling it through ebay and paypal. What everyone does keep forgetting though, is that when you complete a transaction, you have the buyers/sellers information. As long as you keep good records, you deal with paypal and ebay to keep good with them, and you sue the buyer/seller outside of ebay.

Again, this isn't about the worth of an item, or what someone sells it for, or reputation, etc. It is just the principal of the matter.

Also, yes, I agree that Walmart and many restaurants do this all the time. That is their business model, but they are most likely the only retailers/restaurant you will ever find that will.

Businesses are not in business to get screwed over. They are in business to make money and treat customers the right way, but it is a 2 way street.

Even if a buyer bought an item (ram or other wise) and they had any issues with it, I would just ask for it back, and then refund them their money. I wouldn't care if it was really broken or not. If not, I will just resale it. If it is broken, to scrap it goes.

Even if you put in the listings that all items are sold as is, no refunds...that alone is a joke, since ebay and paypal don't care and will do it in a heartbeat.

Yeah, we offer a 14 day return regardless. I have to have it for the Top Rated Seller discount (which on the volume that we do, is a pretty large amount at the end of the year), plus it doesn't matter if you say as is or not, if the buyer decides they do not want it, eBay will force you to refund them the money if they can show proof it was sent back.

I understand your position on taking it up with the buyer, but it doesn't work that way in the real world. It's not cost effective, or practical to file against every scammer in the world. It would cost you too much time, money, and energy, and even if you were 100% in the right every time, you are still going to lose from time to time.

Give me your ebay ID GEO. Ill show you taking stuff back and giving refund after refund will cost you to much money in the end. People who want to mess with you can just refuse the shipment and it goes right back to you and then your out the shipping costs. I have had this happen. Most of the time when someone tells me they recieved something and it doesnt work. I just offer to refund them the cost of the item minus shipping so they dont have to ship it back to me. They usualy take that no problem. Thats why I dont do free shipping on many things. If you sells omething for $25 and $10 shipping and it doesnt work when they get it I can offer to just give them $25 and they dont have to spend another $10 to ship it back to me. If I charge them $35 and free shipping they think its free shipping and it didnt cost anything to ship it cause they got free shipping. Works for me use what works for you.