Direct To Refiners

**Paveitall** · 07-13-2017, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ewasted

Ultimately, what are you looking to achieve by going to a refinery?

Ewasted,

I think the only advantage i can see to sending it to a refiner is keeping more money in my pocket. What i'm trying to determine is the risk and effort variance between a refiner and a buyer. As I see it (I've been wrong before) Risk is the same, i can get screwed just as easily by by both sides. Effort, I still sort and load truck with refiner or buyer?

My situation is probably a little different from most as i reside in a part of the country with very few if any buyers (still looking for one). Ewasted if you were able to come over to our shop and do a monthly buy, i might go that direction. I get really curious when someone tells me its to hard to do, that tells me maybe i should look a little closer.

I think i have made up my mind and i appreciate everyone input on this. Im going to select a refiner and ship as soon as i have 20,000 Lbs (or whatever i can cram into a truckload). Since this whole process seems to be a huge mystery, im going to post my step by step process here. I hope to have a full truckload by October, i will weigh and sort everything going into the truck and report the weights by product (with pictures) here before it ships, you guys can tell me what your buyers are paying for these products that way we can compare the value a buyer would pay to what i ultimately get. Im going to assume i will get some kind of report back from the refiner telling what i sent and the value recovered, i will scan that info and post it here as well. I like being the Guinea Pig and im really curious myself, might get screwed but thats ok we will find out.

**Ewasted** · 07-14-2017, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Paveitall

Ewasted,

I think the only advantage i can see to sending it to a refiner is keeping more money in my pocket. What i'm trying to determine is the risk and effort variance between a refiner and a buyer. As I see it (I've been wrong before) Risk is the same, i can get screwed just as easily by by both sides. Effort, I still sort and load truck with refiner or buyer?

My situation is probably a little different from most as i reside in a part of the country with very few if any buyers (still looking for one). Ewasted if you were able to come over to our shop and do a monthly buy, i might go that direction. I get really curious when someone tells me its to hard to do, that tells me maybe i should look a little closer.

I think i have made up my mind and i appreciate everyone input on this. Im going to select a refiner and ship as soon as i have 20,000 Lbs (or whatever i can cram into a truckload). Since this whole process seems to be a huge mystery, im going to post my step by step process here. I hope to have a full truckload by October, i will weigh and sort everything going into the truck and report the weights by product (with pictures) here before it ships, you guys can tell me what your buyers are paying for these products that way we can compare the value a buyer would pay to what i ultimately get. Im going to assume i will get some kind of report back from the refiner telling what i sent and the value recovered, i will scan that info and post it here as well. I like being the Guinea Pig and im really curious myself, might get screwed but thats ok we will find out.

Thanks for the solid response!
Here are my thoughts:
You may end up getting less not more from a refiner... with all due respect, your terms will suck. You won't have volumes to make it worth their while. In other words, terms we have will have a much higher probability of netting out a great dollar amount than you can recover. There are items we buy at prices we pay, that you may recover less than what we pay and you are going to feel like you got screwed... well you didn't get screwed.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts as trying to leverage you into selling to us... sure we would like the business, but I really am an awful business man to my own fault. For that reason I am asking clarifying questions. You are going to have to be prepared to lose significant money and NOT be upset... part of being a bad business man allowed me to move on after some tragic results.

At the end of the day, it comes out to what business do you want to be in.

Hopefully you don't end up like U2 (still haven't found what I am looking for) at the end of the process... every single load is a roll of the dice... and don't forget TimeValueMoney!

**Paveitall** · 07-14-2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ewasted

Thanks for the solid response!
Here are my thoughts:
You may end up getting less not more from a refiner... with all due respect, your terms will suck. You won't have volumes to make it worth their while. In other words, terms we have will have a much higher probability of netting out a great dollar amount than you can recover. There are items we buy at prices we pay, that you may recover less than what we pay and you are going to feel like you got screwed... well you didn't get screwed.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts as trying to leverage you into selling to us... sure we would like the business, but I really am an awful business man to my own fault. For that reason I am asking clarifying questions. You are going to have to be prepared to lose significant money and NOT be upset... part of being a bad business man allowed me to move on after some tragic results.

At the end of the day, it comes out to what business do you want to be in.

Hopefully you don't end up like U2 (still haven't found what I am looking for) at the end of the process... every single load is a roll of the dice... and don't forget TimeValueMoney!

Fair Response Ewasted. Just to clarify, I did not intend to be in the scrap business but i now realize that i am. Your points are very good ones and things i need to consider and go to the heart of my question. If all I stand to gain is 5-10% from sending to the refiner, vrs dealing with a good buyer then i think my decision is simple. But if its 20-30% i might consider alternatives and that's all i was trying to understand.

Posters Remorse - In my ignorance i didn't realize i was asking buyers for answers to this question, that's not a fair question to ask buyers in an open Forum like this. That's part of a buyers business that probably takes many years to perfect and i do apologize if I unintentionally offended you or other buyers here, that was not my intent.

**Ewasted** · 07-14-2017, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Paveitall

Fair Response Ewasted. Just to clarify, I did not intend to be in the scrap business but i now realize that i am. Your points are very good ones and things i need to consider and go to the heart of my question. If all I stand to gain is 5-10% from sending to the refiner, vrs dealing with a good buyer then i think my decision is simple. But if its 20-30% i might consider alternatives and that's all i was trying to understand.

Posters Remorse - In my ignorance i didn't realize i was asking buyers for answers to this question, that's not a fair question to ask buyers in an open Forum like this. That's part of a buyers business that probably takes many years to perfect and i do apologize if I unintentionally offended you or other buyers here, that was not my intent.

Offensive? YES... hurt my feelings? YES

I couldn't imagine going on a forum that sells a product and ask what they pay for it or how much they make

All sarcasm aside, you are from the outside looking in. The grass is always greener that way. You have my assurance it is not as easy is it appears from the outside... every day we give it the good fight. If you are expecting 20-30% then you have grossly underestimated the competitiveness of this industry.