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    Paveitall started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tski72 View Post
    Also, to add to a few posts, 5 million pounds a year is a massive amount, Unless you are a buyer with that kind of volume, you most likely will not see the amount of money you think. I had contacted a plastics refiner here in the Chicago area some years ago by accident looking for a plastics buyer, and the girl that I was talking to gave me the minimums that they deal with, we are talking like 3 to 4 semi's a week, constantly and bailed.

    Even shipping a truckload of motherboards to one of the buyers here would be well worth your startup and the shipping can also go through someone here, I seem to remember there used to be a member that had specials for full truckloads and he had his own carriage company or something like that.

    Now nobody knows the size of your operation or the actual quantity that you are receiving but if you are just getting into the business of e-waste, you need to take the steps to get to the next level.

    Also if you became a paid member, you would have access to the closed section and there has been a lot of this sorta thing discussed in there, an open forum, like this thread, will not get you the answers you so desire. Like I recommended in an earlier post, introduce yourself, give people a little background on you and your business and fill in your profile as much as you can, then get your paid lifetime membership, the best money I spent, and start doing the research through the old treads, we all have done it.

    I can't speak for anyone else here on the forum, but for me, I was just adding my trials and mishaps with wanting to go big and had a rude awakening, which is why I stuck with the "get, sort, sell, start over" attitude. It pays really quick and it keeps me working, usually. Everyone just seems to be trying to help you move forward, sitting on Gaylord's of product waiting to find a refiner just doesn't seem cost effective, unless you have a huge line of open credit. IMO.


    Appreciate the comments, All i was asking for is anyone with direct experience with a refiner like Sabin so i can make an educated decision as to what to do with this product, maybe selling to Ewasted or board sort is best for me IDK. As stated above by several people, one of my concerns is that i will get ripped off sending a truckload to a refiner and "hoping for the best".

    I started in this industry several years ago working (volunteering) at Ewaste Events, that progressed into me purchasing some of the material collected at events and repairing and re-selling electronics, i made a little extra money but truly i did it because i enjoyed what i was doing. Thru the years I have made a lot of connections and in January decided to start a company with my brother when we secured several large contracts, along with fixed contracts we host both paid and free events monthly. We were prepared for the CRT's, it was our biggest concerns, one thing we were not prepared for was the volume of commodity laden materials. Incoming waste in June was 35,863Lbs (35% CRT's), CRT's, power supplies, optical drives got to WI but all we have shipped so far is one load of CRT's, Desktops are broken down and components sold, laptops are re-purposed if possible, copper aluminum and steel sold locally, most peripherals are shipped 250 miles and recycled as "TIN" for $.03/Lb. Whats left, HDD's & Boards (dual, single, finger, telecom, lowgrade). As of today i have 6 gaylords full of single metal socket boards and other boxes partial filled with other types. i have a lot of room to store this stuff but im just trying to plan for late fall when i will have a full truckload.



    I have contacted Sabin, i don't need 5M Lbs, there is a set processing fee of $2,500 and a declining schedule based on volume. Im waiting to get all the particulars, i had to fill out some federal forms (KYC & Anti corruption) before they will discuss specifics which were submitted last week. Again if anyone has experience with direct ship to a refiner i would like to hear the good and bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paveitall View Post
    Appreciate the comments, All i was asking for is anyone with direct experience with a refiner like Sabin so i can make an educated decision as to what to do with this product, maybe selling to Ewasted or board sort is best for me IDK. As stated above by several people, one of my concerns is that i will get ripped off sending a truckload to a refiner and "hoping for the best".

    I started in this industry several years ago working (volunteering) at Ewaste Events, that progressed into me purchasing some of the material collected at events and repairing and re-selling electronics, i made a little extra money but truly i did it because i enjoyed what i was doing. Thru the years I have made a lot of connections and in January decided to start a company with my brother when we secured several large contracts, along with fixed contracts we host both paid and free events monthly. We were prepared for the CRT's, it was our biggest concerns, one thing we were not prepared for was the volume of commodity laden materials. Incoming waste in June was 35,863Lbs (35% CRT's), CRT's, power supplies, optical drives got to WI but all we have shipped so far is one load of CRT's, Desktops are broken down and components sold, laptops are re-purposed if possible, copper aluminum and steel sold locally, most peripherals are shipped 250 miles and recycled as "TIN" for $.03/Lb. Whats left, HDD's & Boards (dual, single, finger, telecom, lowgrade). As of today i have 6 gaylords full of single metal socket boards and other boxes partial filled with other types. i have a lot of room to store this stuff but im just trying to plan for late fall when i will have a full truckload.

    I have contacted Sabin, i don't need 5M Lbs, there is a set processing fee of $2,500 and a declining schedule based on volume. Im waiting to get all the particulars, i had to fill out some federal forms (KYC & Anti corruption) before they will discuss specifics which were submitted last week. Again if anyone has experience with direct ship to a refiner i would like to hear the good and bad.
    Ultimately, what are you looking to achieve by going to a refinery?
    Specializing in Maximum value for mixed precious metal printed circuit boards and electronics

    Check out our pricing and read some of our RAVING reviews: http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/scrap...tal-scrap.html
    QUESTIONS? Email us: info@CashForComputerScrap.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewasted View Post
    Ultimately, what are you looking to achieve by going to a refinery?
    I can think of several good reasons, going direct to a refinery eliminates how many hands the goods pass through, maximize price thus allowing seller to become competitive in the market.

    When I shipped my drum of milled catalytic comb to a refiner in New York, they simply forwarded the drum to Metallix in Carolina, if you think the forward on that drum was free your sadly mistaken. Just one more middle man seeking a living off my back.

    What I've learned about refinery's and this is not to say all are the same, listen to the guy your speaking with if he constantly sniffles move along - find another refinery to deal with. Too easy to hide the chronic sniffles via email.

    My man in New York did not inform me of the fact my drum was forwarded to another refinery for processing, it came about purely by mistake during a conversation we were having when a company I know in Vancouver B.C. that refines lead - the two names so similar confused him.

    Metalex Lead Recycling

    Metallix Refining - A Precious Metals Refinery
    Last edited by Smf-retired-user-0043; 07-13-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alloy2 View Post
    I can think of several good reasons, going direct to a refinery eliminates how many hands the goods pass through, maximize price thus allowing seller to become competitive in the market.

    When I shipped my drum of milled catalytic comb to a refiner in New York, they simply forwarded the drum to Metallix in Carolina, if you think the forward on that drum was free your sadly mistaken. Just one more middle man seeking a living off my back.

    What I've learned about refinery's and this is not to say all are the same, listen to the guy your speaking with if he constantly sniffles move along - find another refinery to deal with. Too easy to hide the chronic sniffles via email.

    My man in New York did not inform me of the fact my drum was forwarded to another refinery for processing, it came about purely by mistake during a conversation we were having when a company I know in Vancouver B.C. that refines lead - the two names so similar confused him.

    Metalex Lead Recycling

    Metallix Refining - A Precious Metals Refinery

    With all due respect the question was directed towards the original poster. It was a fact finding question as different people are looking for different things. Trying to understand his goals, and not yours, will help us give him some feedback.

    Going "direct" does NOT always maximize price, that is a farce. Like everything in life, there is a time and place.

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    APA is offline Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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    Quote Originally Posted by alloy2 View Post
    I can think of several good reasons, going direct to a refinery eliminates how many hands the goods pass through, maximize price thus allowing seller to become competitive in the market.

    When I shipped my drum of milled catalytic comb to a refiner in New York, they simply forwarded the drum to Metallix in Carolina, if you think the forward on that drum was free your sadly mistaken. Just one more middle man seeking a living off my back.

    What I've learned about refinery's and this is not to say all are the same, listen to the guy your speaking with if he constantly sniffles move along - find another refinery to deal with. Too easy to hide the chronic sniffles via email.

    My man in New York did not inform me of the fact my drum was forwarded to another refinery for processing, it came about purely by mistake during a conversation we were having when a company I know in Vancouver B.C. that refines lead - the two names so similar confused him.

    Metalex Lead Recycling

    Metallix Refining - A Precious Metals Refinery
    Just as my earlier post said, some refiners aren't refiners. I had a guy tell me he is in talks to sell his 150 catalytic converters (I laughed) to this BIG time refinery in NY state. I laughed again and said "did they offer to show you any of their BIG time refining machines?" Answer was "um no".
    Truth is there are ZERO refineries in NY.
    Metallix is a refinery BUT their results are TERRIBLE. They have also broken contracts and made many lies to me. So you unfortunately were bitten twice by the "refinery" label. I was bitten by Metallix but learned quickly that I can sell my converters elsewhere for more money. I am also very confident that I can beat their pricing by buying off of people in the can-cash and carry. Metallix may know how to push a button to start a machine or two but they DONT know converters.

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  9. #6
    Paveitall started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewasted View Post
    Ultimately, what are you looking to achieve by going to a refinery?
    Ewasted,

    I think the only advantage i can see to sending it to a refiner is keeping more money in my pocket. What i'm trying to determine is the risk and effort variance between a refiner and a buyer. As I see it (I've been wrong before) Risk is the same, i can get screwed just as easily by by both sides. Effort, I still sort and load truck with refiner or buyer?

    My situation is probably a little different from most as i reside in a part of the country with very few if any buyers (still looking for one). Ewasted if you were able to come over to our shop and do a monthly buy, i might go that direction. I get really curious when someone tells me its to hard to do, that tells me maybe i should look a little closer.

    I think i have made up my mind and i appreciate everyone input on this. Im going to select a refiner and ship as soon as i have 20,000 Lbs (or whatever i can cram into a truckload). Since this whole process seems to be a huge mystery, im going to post my step by step process here. I hope to have a full truckload by October, i will weigh and sort everything going into the truck and report the weights by product (with pictures) here before it ships, you guys can tell me what your buyers are paying for these products that way we can compare the value a buyer would pay to what i ultimately get. Im going to assume i will get some kind of report back from the refiner telling what i sent and the value recovered, i will scan that info and post it here as well. I like being the Guinea Pig and im really curious myself, might get screwed but thats ok we will find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paveitall View Post
    Ewasted,

    I think the only advantage i can see to sending it to a refiner is keeping more money in my pocket. What i'm trying to determine is the risk and effort variance between a refiner and a buyer. As I see it (I've been wrong before) Risk is the same, i can get screwed just as easily by by both sides. Effort, I still sort and load truck with refiner or buyer?

    My situation is probably a little different from most as i reside in a part of the country with very few if any buyers (still looking for one). Ewasted if you were able to come over to our shop and do a monthly buy, i might go that direction. I get really curious when someone tells me its to hard to do, that tells me maybe i should look a little closer.

    I think i have made up my mind and i appreciate everyone input on this. Im going to select a refiner and ship as soon as i have 20,000 Lbs (or whatever i can cram into a truckload). Since this whole process seems to be a huge mystery, im going to post my step by step process here. I hope to have a full truckload by October, i will weigh and sort everything going into the truck and report the weights by product (with pictures) here before it ships, you guys can tell me what your buyers are paying for these products that way we can compare the value a buyer would pay to what i ultimately get. Im going to assume i will get some kind of report back from the refiner telling what i sent and the value recovered, i will scan that info and post it here as well. I like being the Guinea Pig and im really curious myself, might get screwed but thats ok we will find out.
    Thanks for the solid response!
    Here are my thoughts:
    You may end up getting less not more from a refiner... with all due respect, your terms will suck. You won't have volumes to make it worth their while. In other words, terms we have will have a much higher probability of netting out a great dollar amount than you can recover. There are items we buy at prices we pay, that you may recover less than what we pay and you are going to feel like you got screwed... well you didn't get screwed.

    Please don't misconstrue my thoughts as trying to leverage you into selling to us... sure we would like the business, but I really am an awful business man to my own fault. For that reason I am asking clarifying questions. You are going to have to be prepared to lose significant money and NOT be upset... part of being a bad business man allowed me to move on after some tragic results.

    At the end of the day, it comes out to what business do you want to be in.

    Hopefully you don't end up like U2 (still haven't found what I am looking for) at the end of the process... every single load is a roll of the dice... and don't forget TimeValueMoney!

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    Wasn't there a guy on here named Noblesomethingorother who used to be a ""hobbyist"" refiner?

    I clearly remember him posting that if you send your stuff off to a refiner without being an 'insider' that you WILL get ripped off. Pure & simple. He said that you need a broker watching every step of the process and if you don't cross every T & dot every I, you might even end up OWING the refiner at the end of the deal.

    Eff that.

    I have a decent buyer here in DFW, and if I get enough of a particular item, I know a guy in Colorado & another one in Ohio that have always done me right.

    Whaddayaknow... they're right up top on this link right now:

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/scrap-buyers-sellers/
    Out of clutter, find simplicity. --Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by auminer View Post
    Wasn't there a guy on here named Noblesomethingorother who used to be a ""hobbyist"" refiner?

    I clearly remember him posting that if you send your stuff off to a refiner without being an 'insider' that you WILL get ripped off. Pure & simple. He said that you need a broker watching every step of the process and if you don't cross every T & dot every I, you might even end up OWING the refiner at the end of the deal.

    Eff that.

    I have a decent buyer here in DFW, and if I get enough of a particular item, I know a guy in Colorado & another one in Ohio that have always done me right.

    Whaddayaknow... they're right up top on this link right now:

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/scrap-buyers-sellers/
    See here is an old post that sounds appropriate for this. and it is the first one in the similar posts box. have a read, it may be a few years old, but you can't change the industry.

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/gene...l-suggest.html
    Cleaning up the e-waste one company at a time

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    Quote Originally Posted by tski72 View Post
    See here is an old post that sounds appropriate for this. and it is the first one in the similar posts box. have a read, it may be a few years old, but you can't change the industry.

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/gene...l-suggest.html
    THERE'S someone who reads the old stuff!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by auminer View Post
    THERE'S someone who reads the old stuff!!!!!

    I read quite a bit of the old posts, that's why I do not start many threads, my questions have been answered. I just keep reading. I do what I recommend quite a bit. No hypocrite here.

    Happy reading.

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    Paveitall started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tski72 View Post
    See here is an old post that sounds appropriate for this. and it is the first one in the similar posts box. have a read, it may be a few years old, but you can't change the industry.

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/gene...l-suggest.html

    Good Read, Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by tski72 View Post
    See here is an old post that sounds appropriate for this. and it is the first one in the similar posts box. have a read, it may be a few years old, but you can't change the industry.

    https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/gene...l-suggest.html
    I jumped it to whats new. It is a good read.

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    interesting topic.......Always made me wonder how the boards were purchased by the pound but the refinery does not purchase by LB but pays on yield.......Seems like to much margin for error for me..........I applaud those who use the refinery method and give some poor white boy like me a job to do

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    I stated time and again, the refiner will screw you if your not watching. It is not worth your time to go down there and watch your material get run. Heck we've watched the sampling process and it's in one word: janky. The reality of the situation is if you do not know what your doing, they will not tell you. And if they don't tell you, then you will think your results are normal and buy based on that until someone comes along to all your sellers and tells them he can pay more...then what? You need a full truckload. It needs to be sorted properly to know it's minimum returned value. Then you need to babysit the processing of your material for the duration. You can broker that out or do it yourself but it must be done. The service would not be available if it wasn't an issue. Refiners as a lot are a dishonest industry. They are encouraged to fluff their bottom lines wherever they can.

    I refine memory and fiber cpus in house. I built the equipment to do it, it is 99% a mechanical process. I even send the waste out for testing to ensure the process is doing what I designed it to do.

    Long story short, it's risk management that will make your decision for you.
    WI ITAD LLC, IT Liquidation Services, we remarket, buy and sell scrap electronics No customer too large or small!

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    Quote Originally Posted by armygreywolf View Post
    I stated time and again, the refiner will screw you if your not watching. It is not worth your time to go down there and watch your material get run. Heck we've watched the sampling process and it's in one word: janky. The reality of the situation is if you do not know what your doing, they will not tell you. And if they don't tell you, then you will think your results are normal and buy based on that until someone comes along to all your sellers and tells them he can pay more...then what? You need a full truckload. It needs to be sorted properly to know it's minimum returned value. Then you need to babysit the processing of your material for the duration. You can broker that out or do it yourself but it must be done. The service would not be available if it wasn't an issue. Refiners as a lot are a dishonest industry. They are encouraged to fluff their bottom lines wherever they can.

    I refine memory and fiber cpus in house. I built the equipment to do it, it is 99% a mechanical process. I even send the waste out for testing to ensure the process is doing what I designed it to do.

    Long story short, it's risk management that will make your decision for you.
    I totally agree you'll get screwed over by the refinery, they ignore independent assays.

    Now 20 gaylords would merit personal attendance or a hired referee to cover your assets.

    As for mechanical gold recovery, good to see that I;m not the only one using this procedure, said this before that gold is soft and will run off easily using mechanical methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alloy2 View Post
    I totally agree you'll get screwed over by the refinery, they ignore independent assays.

    Now 20 gaylords would merit personal attendance or a hired referee to cover your assets.

    As for mechanical gold recovery, good to see that I;m not the only one using this procedure, said this before that gold is soft and will run off easily using mechanical methods.
    Most of my findings are that the refinery won't "screw" you. Odds are you don't understand the process or what their capabilities are. Also it is a volume game. To your watermelon analogy... 20 boxes of boards are a fraction of a fraction, so it may not warrant a meeting with the farmer.

    My assumption is you want to by pass the "middleman" but you are not full assessing the landscape as to what value the middleman brings... armygreywolf brings up a multitude of good points, especially security!

    There is no easy way in this business... the glory days are over and now it is a day in and day out grind of hard work, perseverance and commitment.

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    Paveitall started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by armygreywolf View Post
    I stated time and again, the refiner will screw you if your not watching. It is not worth your time to go down there and watch your material get run. Heck we've watched the sampling process and it's in one word: janky. The reality of the situation is if you do not know what your doing, they will not tell you. And if they don't tell you, then you will think your results are normal and buy based on that until someone comes along to all your sellers and tells them he can pay more...then what? You need a full truckload. It needs to be sorted properly to know it's minimum returned value. Then you need to babysit the processing of your material for the duration. You can broker that out or do it yourself but it must be done. The service would not be available if it wasn't an issue. Refiners as a lot are a dishonest industry. They are encouraged to fluff their bottom lines wherever they can.

    I refine memory and fiber cpus in house. I built the equipment to do it, it is 99% a mechanical process. I even send the waste out for testing to ensure the process is doing what I designed it to do.

    Long story short, it's risk management that will make your decision for you.

    Good info thanks,

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    I don't believe 20 gaylords of e-waste merits watchdogging honestly. The time spent and amount you will pay for that will undercut the result enough that a knowledgable intermediary would have been a better sell option. There are exceptions, if those 20 gaylords were say... manufacturing waste such as sim card or pcb manufacturing punchouts. If it was 20 gaylords of cell phones I might go watch myself, hard drive boards, ram, and telecom, sure. Actual boards...no way.

    The second quandry is that you yourself do not know the process, so while you can go and watch...what good does that do if your unaware of what is right and wrong about the process? Having a professional watch your material leaves you basing your decisions on their reputation on the subject. And your assuming they are physically present for the entire process which is a near impossibility. Please don't take the assumption that the people speaking are naysayers because we are also buyers. Buyers absorb RISK. We do this because we are trading our knowledge of the industry, and of grading to pay you a set amount. Therefore you are receiving security in your material grades and payouts based on that fact.

    Again, big 'ol grain of salt.

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  35. #20
    Paveitall started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by armygreywolf View Post
    I don't believe 20 gaylords of e-waste merits watchdogging honestly. The time spent and amount you will pay for that will undercut the result enough that a knowledgable intermediary would have been a better sell option. There are exceptions, if those 20 gaylords were say... manufacturing waste such as sim card or pcb manufacturing punchouts. If it was 20 gaylords of cell phones I might go watch myself, hard drive boards, ram, and telecom, sure. Actual boards...no way.

    The second quandry is that you yourself do not know the process, so while you can go and watch...what good does that do if your unaware of what is right and wrong about the process? Having a professional watch your material leaves you basing your decisions on their reputation on the subject. And your assuming they are physically present for the entire process which is a near impossibility. Please don't take the assumption that the people speaking are naysayers because we are also buyers. Buyers absorb RISK. We do this because we are trading our knowledge of the industry, and of grading to pay you a set amount. Therefore you are receiving security in your material grades and payouts based on that fact.

    Again, big 'ol grain of salt.
    Again, good info. I can bet non of you are withing 500-600 miles of me, so im still stuck at sending a load and hoping for the best? Seems like im taking the same risk either way, what am i missing?

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