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  1. #1
    BRASSCATCHER's Avatar
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    Rck- I dont think you are going to get the answer you are looking for on this forum. I believe Noble said that if you have questions regarding refining, the gold refining forum is where you should be looking. If you are set up properly I am sure that if you explained your set up over there and explain exactley what you are looking to do and the process you are going to use someone might help you out. But trust me when I say this, the people there stress safety first and will smell out a newb in a split second just by the questions you ask. There people in the industry and lifelong home refiners that will not jeopardize their livleyhoods by giving out information to anyone that doesnt know what they are doing, causing someone to get hurt or worse, and then try to point their finger at them saying he told me to do it this way.

    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” John Wayne-- The Shootist

    NEWBS READ THIS THREAD ABOUT REFINING!!!!
    http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/off-t...ning-read.html

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  3. #2
    eesakiwi is offline Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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    What I did do later, and its seems a lot safer & simpler. But it takes months to happen.....
    It takes the Copper & Brass pins away from the Gold, rather than trying to get the Gold off the pins. So the golds still in its plated state & form & shape & carat. Only its broken up a lot & will also be a brown powder as well as a gold flake looking Gold.

    It is NOT refining gold. It will not be a higer carat than it started at & if melted, will probably be lower is its not going to get all the contaminents or plastic or carbon out.

    --------------
    Though I'm going to make a disclaimer just because I have found out from lots of experience..... That just because I can & have done it, doesn't make it safe for anyone else to do it, or even attempt to do it.
    In fact I have seen lots of people fail spectacularly at what I have done, which probably means I hang out with ****heads... '
    'Cous they can't even do what you guys here can do daily. Thats a complement for all you SMF members.

    This is also what I have done, I'm NOT telling you to do this. I wear all the safety gear.
    Again. Do NOT Do this. Or even attempt doing it.

    ---- example of failure
    I went tramping when I was 13, on a two week trek & I carried all of my own food & gear etc. Big deal, atlas shrugs, so do I.

    (just a word about 'tramping', tramping is when you go into the bush & tramp it, ie stand on the bush a tramp it down & make your Own track. In remote places where no ones ever walked before.
    'Trecking', or 'bush walking' is when you have had a whole bunch of people go out & tame the area & make a flat track that someone in a bloody 4WD wheelchair could travel on.
    Then you walk on that. Sorta like a walk in the park... Which it is)

    So years later I'm talking with someone who is 35+ & a experienced tramper & he asks me about tramping & I mention my tramp & he thinks him & a bunch of others may do it.
    Well if a 13 yr old kid can.....

    I find out a lot later. They did try it, 3 days later they use their emergency ph to call up a private helecopter & pay good $$$$ to get them out.

    Because, as soon as the absolutley flat track stopped, they relised they were not cut out to do what I could, as a 13 yr old....After their little 3 day wussy nature walk............boo hoo.

    ----------------------

    Ok, back again.

    My bench is rib height, that way I can't spill stuff onto chest area or above. Its in bright sunlight so I can see & theres plenty of fresh air & no breezes.

    I put the cleaned pins, about a cups worth (washed in warm/hot HCL to remove the solder & washed again in water) in a glass jar. The jars a litre jar. Like a mason jar (yes yes a mason jar, sorry ^)
    Added some HCL, about 5mm deep in the jar. I used the green stuff left over from the first, ah, learning curve.
    New HCL would work.
    Mixed it a bit to get the pins wet & I let it sit somewhere safe from disturbances (I live alone) & it will slowly corrode the pins. It took a while to start off.
    Once its started it gives the HCL acid something to Bite or soak into. That will help keep the HCL up in the air & on the exposed pins.

    The corrosion is like the rust on iron, except its light blue/light green/white, crumbles easyer & it happens only above the HCL acid level, like in the air only.
    The wet HCL under the corrosion turns green/black if it wasn't allready like that (mine was green/black after the first, ah, chance)
    It will dissolve the corrosion into the liquid if you stirr it in.

    Once its started corroding I understood whats happening.

    So, once its started, I gave it a little stir each day or two to get the pins wet again.
    Some of the corrosion will be dissolved & once the pins were wet, I poured off the left over dark HCL acid into a taller glass jar.
    That soon seperated out & the corrosion dropped to the bottom. I poured off the top green/black HCL acid layer back into the jar & got the pins wetter again..

    I did that each day or two & added more HCL acid to the pins as it was needed to dissolve the corrosion.

    For some reason, no matter how much HCL I poured off the tall corrosion jar, there would be more on top the next day. Reaction of some sort I guess.

    So, weeks later the volume of the pins has dropped by a lot. Theres a lot more of the corrosion in the tall glass jar. I can see the loose flecks of gold in it & also on the pins.

    Weeks later after doing all this, there was almost no pins in the first jar & a lot of the corrosion in the tall jar.

    I poured all the corrosion into a bigger jar & added some more of the green/black HCL acid & stirred it a little at the same time.
    It didn't take much acid to dissolve all of the corrosion.
    Once the corrosion was dissolved, the Gold & the plastic & the other rubbish, like carbon etc, dropped quickly to the bottom of the jar.
    I used a tapered measuring jar, but any tall jars good.

    A day later I could see the thick layer of Gold flake at the bottom & another new layer of brown Gold dust & lighter rubbish on top of it.
    I poured off the acid & added water & let it seperate out & then poured it off. Did that a few times. Dried it.

    Now I have a mush of Gold flake, plastic, oxides, carbon & other unnamed stuff in the bottom of a jar.

    This is not refined Gold. I didn't weight it before or after & I have no more acid left or a way to melt the Gold.

    I live alone, so theres no one to move things when I'm not there or not. Theres no one to interupt me as I work & theres no one to ask annoying questions either.
    In fact, I never have told anyone of what I do here or there. Its none of their business.
    Last edited by eesakiwi; 03-04-2013 at 10:18 PM.

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    This thread makes me just cringe for obvious reasons.
    I like some people was curious how to do the refining to make even more money and the reading I have done from what others here and at gold refining forum
    made me rethink about doing this mainly because of the health risk and cost getting into it and I just didn't feel its worth losing my life over should I make a screw up with it.
    My advice also is to rethink what you are getting yourself into and just stick with selling to the many great buyers here.
    This way it gets done the right way everyone makes money everyone wins and most importantly a life has been saved from a possible tragic mistake.

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  6. #4
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    Well, enough of that, I would really like someone with experience to answer my question. I am along way away from killing myself -
    I'd say that Scott is probably the most experienced one here on this forum, now on Gold Refining Forum it might be a tossup between about 10 different people. I would say to take Scotts word like it was God talking to you,,, Just my opinion,,,
    P & M Recycling - Specializing in E-Waste Recycling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanic688 View Post
    I'd say that Scott is probably the most experienced one here on this forum, now on Gold Refining Forum it might be a tossup between about 10 different people. I would say to take Scotts word like it was God talking to you,,, Just my opinion,,,
    Mechanic,

    I truly appreciate what you have said, I don't really see myself in that way, but it does make a person feel incredibly good, specially when I respect that person a great deal, when they say something like you have about me. There are many others that also refine who are on this site that could very well be a lot more knowledgeable than I am, and compared to friends of mine who also refine what I know would be a drop in the bucket so to speak. But it is greatly appreciated.

    I also want to say that although I post on what I know about and don't often post questions, I have learned just as much as I have posted about. This forum and it's members have helped me in my own work beyond anything I could easily express here. And there are members here that know far more, and have far more experience in the subjects this forum was built on than I do, also the reason I am here.

    So thank you for the compliment, I do really appreciate it, and thank you for your own posts, and for the posts of everyone else that add to the accumulation of knowledge that exists on this site. While GRF has hundreds of years of accumulated experience in recovering and refining precious metals, this site has hundreds and hundreds of more experience in recycling, scrapping, processing, identifying etc etc etc metals.

    Scott
    At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

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    Wow...some pretty intense reactions to the question!! There is a lot of truth in what the others here have posted. I just joined this forum yesterday so I am not sure I can associate this Scott with the word of God. I have however been "recovering" and "refining" gold from eWaste for a couple of years now. I feel I am very comfortable with the processes that I use, and they are right that it does require a lot of studying. After all, you're not baking a cake or shining up some silver spoons here. The goldrefiningforum in my opinion is a top notch place to find info. The folks there tend to be a bit snobby for my taste especially if you are new and start asking questions before you start reading. In many cases understadably so. I also feel that you should read Hoke to get a better base knowledge on what this science is all about. It is also a great opportunity for you to try to amass a considerable quantity of gold bearing material. Bottom line is that there are no quick answers. There are no "get rich quick" solutions. There are loads of hazards associated with recovery and refining. If this has not already been stated, this is what i would suggest for you....
    1: Read Hoke, its free online.
    2: Think about your confidence level. What chemicals are you comfortable to work with at first after reading Hoke?
    3: Read Hoke again.
    4: Determine what kind of things you want to recover gold from. Not everything requires Nitric acid. You can do a lot with HCL and peroxide, an aerator, heat, bleach, etc.
    5: Once you have chosen a familiarity test, in my opinion, removing gold flake from goldfingers with hcl and peroxide is a great one, study the notes from people on the goldrefiningforum. Lazersteve has some great videos, threads, and set ups though the initial glass jar is what i would reccommend.
    6:Read the MSDS on the chemicals involved with the process you want to start out with.
    7: Prepare everything in advance. Do NOT skip any safety steps, do NOT skimp on safety gear.
    8-Make sure you go over the process SEVERAL times before you actually perform it.
    9- Make SURE the area you are woking in is well ventilated, and that there is no danger of children or animals coming anywhere close to what you are doing.
    10-Prepare prepare prepare prepare reread reread reread and then proceed with caution.

    Remember, even the people who are most experienced had to have started with questions just like you. This is not childs play in the least bit, however after doing this for a while, I find it very fun! I always exercise caution, and even after at least a couple hundred batches of A/P I still have a printed out sheet above the bench with the step by step directions and safety precaustions so that I never fall into the trap of feeling too comfortable with what i am doing. Being the new guy here, I hope this response does not tick off some of the senior members. I am not trying to overstep others with more experience than I have.

    So keep reading, keep studying, keep asking.

    PEACE!

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosescrapper View Post
    Wow...some pretty intense reactions to the question!! There is a lot of truth in what the others here have posted. I just joined this forum yesterday so I am not sure I can associate this Scott with the word of God. I have however been "recovering" and "refining" gold from eWaste for a couple of years now. I feel I am very comfortable with the processes that I use, and they are right that it does require a lot of studying. After all, you're not baking a cake or shining up some silver spoons here. The goldrefiningforum in my opinion is a top notch place to find info. The folks there tend to be a bit snobby for my taste especially if you are new and start asking questions before you start reading. In many cases understadably so. I also feel that you should read Hoke to get a better base knowledge on what this science is all about. It is also a great opportunity for you to try to amass a considerable quantity of gold bearing material. Bottom line is that there are no quick answers. There are no "get rich quick" solutions. There are loads of hazards associated with recovery and refining. If this has not already been stated, this is what i would suggest for you....
    1: Read Hoke, its free online.
    2: Think about your confidence level. What chemicals are you comfortable to work with at first after reading Hoke?
    3: Read Hoke again.
    4: Determine what kind of things you want to recover gold from. Not everything requires Nitric acid. You can do a lot with HCL and peroxide, an aerator, heat, bleach, etc.
    5: Once you have chosen a familiarity test, in my opinion, removing gold flake from goldfingers with hcl and peroxide is a great one, study the notes from people on the goldrefiningforum. Lazersteve has some great videos, threads, and set ups though the initial glass jar is what i would reccommend.
    6:Read the MSDS on the chemicals involved with the process you want to start out with.
    7: Prepare everything in advance. Do NOT skip any safety steps, do NOT skimp on safety gear.
    8-Make sure you go over the process SEVERAL times before you actually perform it.
    9- Make SURE the area you are woking in is well ventilated, and that there is no danger of children or animals coming anywhere close to what you are doing.
    10-Prepare prepare prepare prepare reread reread reread and then proceed with caution.

    Remember, even the people who are most experienced had to have started with questions just like you. This is not childs play in the least bit, however after doing this for a while, I find it very fun! I always exercise caution, and even after at least a couple hundred batches of A/P I still have a printed out sheet above the bench with the step by step directions and safety precaustions so that I never fall into the trap of feeling too comfortable with what i am doing. Being the new guy here, I hope this response does not tick off some of the senior members. I am not trying to overstep others with more experience than I have.

    So keep reading, keep studying, keep asking.

    PEACE!
    ^^^This is the best answer to the OP I've seen in this thread so far.^^^ The most helpful and courteous answer. IMHO. And it comes from a brand new member. Ain't that something!? There were a few others that were decent, but most were not helpful at all. In fact they were mean, hateful, and and just downright disrespectful. Some were extremely verbose. Then there were those that filled with blarney and completely overate others on here. ex: "take Scotts word like it was God talking to you.." Really? Really? Sorry, not even close. I know this will be deleted, but I gotta speak my peace. Maybe the OP did ask the wrong question. I'm no gold refiner so I don't know. Was he on the wrong forum? Sure. We're supposed to be scrappers, metal recyclers, and even e-waste recyclers. Not gold refiners and certainly not prophets of God. Did he deserve to be treated a little better by the members of SMF? Absolutely.
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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylinejack View Post
    ^^^This is the best answer to the OP I've seen in this thread so far.^^^
    skylinejack, you are right, that was a great answer. I might point out, this is an A-List of everything that was already talked about. He just added it all in one post and posted it to the same thread that contained all of that information already. He just read everything and accumulated it in one post. In other words you are really complimenting all the posts before this one. Thank you.

    There is very good reason why I don't give those types of answers on this forum, specially initially. If these types of answers are given on this forum, people will be looking for these types of answers here instead of where all the accumulated information actually resides. This forum does not seem like the correct place to be giving information on how to safely and properly refine.

    I believe it's better to over explain than under explain, so I also believe being verbose is better than not.

    I don't see where anyone has been hateful or disrespectful, I myself don't believe I have been anything but blunt and brutally honest, if you would, I would like you to point out those things specifically so that if I was involved in any of those types of comments, I can learn from my mistakes and post so that I don't offend people like you in the future. At the end of the day this is all suppose to help all of us.

    It's one thing to state that SMF members should have treated the OP better, but without stating exactly what those things are, how is anyone to learn from all the mistakes that were made in this thread you have eluded to?

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 03-08-2013 at 06:41 AM.

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    I was thinking about it, and maybe words are not enough. So I did a quick search and found a couple pictures of hydrochloric acid skin burns, and thought I would post them here to illustrate my point.





    I hope this gets my point across!

    Scott

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    Ok Guys, I read everyone post here, and I agree with it, its dangerous. But here is what everyone is missing, You were at one time in the same boat, wondering how or what ever the case may be to come up with a solution to a question.

    Its a great world. a great country, and a great bunch of people that can come to this site and post your own opionion..

    chyt.. can't spell. you get the word.. LOL .. anyway.. We all started at this point and I give him credit for coming here and posting such question, at least he not doing it out of the blue, he seeking help.. when people seek help.. like for example You may not be so smart in fixing a leaky faucet, but your neighbor is, he explains and help you learn the process,

    yes its dangerous, but what we can do is educate that person on how to be a bit more carefull, in what he doing

    the do's and DON"TS ..

    Another example, He planting a seed that seed is a question, he want it to grow.. with ideas and advice... once the flower has bloomed and looks like it needs a bit of a trmming then you come in with the pro's and con's and you trim that plant to perfection.. meaning giving advice on the Do's and DON'T..

    hope this makes sense.. again.. I give everyone credit on here for the comments. that what its all about, but ..

    try not to discourage someone dream or ideas, but only to lift them up and give them the tools to do what they seek to desire.

    Mr G
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  19. #11
    Phantoms001 is offline Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnbsfsd View Post
    Ok Guys, I read everyone post here, and I agree with it, its dangerous. But here is what everyone is missing, You were at one time in the same boat, wondering how or what ever the case may be to come up with a solution to a question.

    Its a great world. a great country, and a great bunch of people that can come to this site and post your own opionion..

    chyt.. can't spell. you get the word.. LOL .. anyway.. We all started at this point and I give him credit for coming here and posting such question, at least he not doing it out of the blue, he seeking help.. when people seek help.. like for example You may not be so smart in fixing a leaky faucet, but your neighbor is, he explains and help you learn the process,

    yes its dangerous, but what we can do is educate that person on how to be a bit more carefull, in what he doing

    the do's and DON"TS ..

    Another example, He planting a seed that seed is a question, he want it to grow.. with ideas and advice... once the flower has bloomed and looks like it needs a bit of a trmming then you come in with the pro's and con's and you trim that plant to perfection.. meaning giving advice on the Do's and DON'T..

    hope this makes sense.. again.. I give everyone credit on here for the comments. that what its all about, but ..

    try not to discourage someone dream or ideas, but only to lift them up and give them the tools to do what they seek to desire.

    Mr G
    Everyone is just expressing their opinions. If I could safely, efficiently, refine gold I would in a second. I'm sure EVERYONE would and there would be no need to have a buyer's section. Just from my initial research and taking the time to really explore this option on the gold refining forum shows me clearly that this guys has NO IDEA what he is doing. I don't even refine, but I know the answer to his question from my research. That is pretty scary. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves.

    When I was in the Marines, I was taught how to make improvised explosives from household materials. I have never in my life "taught" anyone how to do this or really disclosed this to others. The information is out there if someone really wanted to find out but it's dangerous and I don't want to be responsible in any way (ethical, moral, legal) for mishaps or misuse.

    This is just another "Darwin" issue. I'd rather just let the herd thin itself and know I didn't aid in the process.

  20. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnbsfsd View Post
    Ok Guys, I read everyone post here, and I agree with it, its dangerous. But here is what everyone is missing, You were at one time in the same boat, wondering how or what ever the case may be to come up with a solution to a question.

    Its a great world. a great country, and a great bunch of people that can come to this site and post your own opionion..

    chyt.. can't spell. you get the word.. LOL .. anyway.. We all started at this point and I give him credit for coming here and posting such question, at least he not doing it out of the blue, he seeking help.. when people seek help.. like for example You may not be so smart in fixing a leaky faucet, but your neighbor is, he explains and help you learn the process,

    yes its dangerous, but what we can do is educate that person on how to be a bit more carefull, in what he doing

    the do's and DON"TS ..

    Another example, He planting a seed that seed is a question, he want it to grow.. with ideas and advice... once the flower has bloomed and looks like it needs a bit of a trmming then you come in with the pro's and con's and you trim that plant to perfection.. meaning giving advice on the Do's and DON'T..

    hope this makes sense.. again.. I give everyone credit on here for the comments. that what its all about, but ..

    try not to discourage someone dream or ideas, but only to lift them up and give them the tools to do what they seek to desire.

    Mr G
    I learned how to recover and refine precious metals, true. Everyone that learns how to do this starts somewhere, true. However, there is a gigantic world of difference between explaining how to fix a leaky faucet that cannot kill you unless someone beats you over the head with it, and attempting to explain to someone with no knowledge or experience how to recover and refine precious metals. Far from trying to discourage anyone from learning how to do this, I am encouraging the original poster to learn, and to do so before they ask questions that he has no business asking.

    You do not give someone instructions on how to set and light dynamite for example, online, on a forum. If I posted in this thread how to recover the gold from gold plated fingers not only would I be doing this person a disservice, but I would be putting his life, HIS LIFE, at risk as well as everyone else that came after, read my instructions, and attempted to re-create what I attempted to teach in a single thread.

    I want to be clear about this because the difference is extremely important. BEFORE anyone asks questions on how to process material to recover the values, that person needs to learn at least basic chemistry first. Now that can be done by reading the book everyone on GRF suggests you read by C. M. Hoke, Refining Precious Metals Wastes.

    You can download a free legal copy here, the book has been out of print for long enough that it has become public domain:

    Refining Precious Metal Wastes C M Hoke

    Here is an old one for sale on Amazon if you are more interested in a hard copy:

    Amazon.com: Refining Precious Metal Wastes Gold, Silver, Platinum Metals a Handbook for the Jeweler, Dentist and Small Refiner: C.M. Hoke: Books

    Here is a new copy on Amazon:

    Refining Precious Metal Wastes - Gold - Silver - Platinum Metals, A Handbood for the Jeweler, Dentist and Small Refiner: C. M. Hoke: Amazon.com: Books

    Now, to recap. I have told the original poster that they should not be asking questions because they don't know enough to even ask the right questions. I told them not only what forum they should be asking questions on, but I have also told them what section to look for the exact information they need for the safest process to recover the gold from his gold fingers, and who created the documentation and instructions. And now I have posted a free link to the very book everyone on the gold refining forum will tell the original poster to read, before they even ask any questions about refining.

    I am willing to help, point someone in the right direction, lead them to water so to speak. But what I will never do, what I refuse to do, for obvious reasons and for the simple fact I do not want to be part of anyone's stupidity that ends in their death, post instructions on a forum directed to someone who doesn't know enough about chemistry to know the right questions to ask. I refuse to be responsible even in the slightest way for someone harming themselves, their loved ones, or even putting their pet at risk of being harmed.

    I apologize if I sound mad, but to be honest I rather sound like an angry jerk and prevent someone from making a terrible mistake, than to lead the horse I was suppose to lead to water, instead to acid and then encourage them to drink. I have helped the original poster as much as is reasonably possible. The process for recovering gold from gold plated fingers is not something that belongs on this website as it has to do with acids and processes that are dangerous, not could be but are dangerous. Those conversations should be asked and reserved for GRF just like scrapping and things pertaining to those subjects should be reserved for this forum. This is exactly why I belong and post on both.

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 03-05-2013 at 03:17 AM.

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  22. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnbsfsd View Post
    Ok Guys, I read everyone post here, and I agree with it, its dangerous. But here is what everyone is missing, You were at one time in the same boat, wondering how or what ever the case may be to come up with a solution to a question.

    Its a great world. a great country, and a great bunch of people that can come to this site and post your own opionion..

    chyt.. can't spell. you get the word.. LOL .. anyway.. We all started at this point and I give him credit for coming here and posting such question, at least he not doing it out of the blue, he seeking help.. when people seek help.. like for example You may not be so smart in fixing a leaky faucet, but your neighbor is, he explains and help you learn the process,

    yes its dangerous, but what we can do is educate that person on how to be a bit more carefull, in what he doing

    the do's and DON"TS ..

    Another example, He planting a seed that seed is a question, he want it to grow.. with ideas and advice... once the flower has bloomed and looks like it needs a bit of a trmming then you come in with the pro's and con's and you trim that plant to perfection.. meaning giving advice on the Do's and DON'T..

    hope this makes sense.. again.. I give everyone credit on here for the comments. that what its all about, but ..

    try not to discourage someone dream or ideas, but only to lift them up and give them the tools to do what they seek to desire.

    Mr G
    Yes i agree that this person wants to learn but going onto a forum and asking a few questions is not the way to go about gold refining! scott has more than proved this point! If he had done his research then this question wouldn't have been asked he would have asked " why is X reaction happening when X chemical is added? or many other more specific questions pertaining to chemicals and there reactions to base metals and precious metals and why it happens. I have learned most of this process from an expert and wouldn't even have tried it on my own without extensive research i still go to hokes for refreshers or call my uncle who owns and runs a refinery to ask questions there are no absolutes in the chemical process and this is the first thing that you should understand! my suggestion is you need to do about 6 months to a year of reading research and small tests until you totally understand why certain processes are happening and what to do about it! and that is my suggestion he needs to do more research that is the first step not just do it! scott posted a link to hokes this will be a great start to your gold refining hobby!
    i don't discourage learning if it is done right especially when your life is on the line for a bit of gold!
    Last edited by NHscrapman; 03-05-2013 at 05:46 AM.
    There ain't nothing wrong with an honest days work. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.- Old Man

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    NHscrapman's Avatar
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    bty Scott nice to see your new place looks like you are all setup and running! and watch out for those scammers lol!

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    NobleMetalWorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHscrapman View Post
    bty Scott nice to see your new place looks like you are all setup and running! and watch out for those scammers lol!
    Thanks for the encouragement. I actually just got into the new location and am not up and running just yet. Still need to do a lot of work like ducting, drainage, set up the new scrubbing equipment, etc. I hope I didn't mislead anyone to believe I am currently up and running, I'm actually shut down currently until I get the installation of my equipment complete, and the engineer to submit for EPA permits, etc.

    But thanks, and I'm watching out for the scammers, to be sure!

    Scott

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    rckww7 started this thread.
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    Hi, I'm back, this is mostly directed to Scott. No, I have never processed gold before, but I am going to learn how. I have spent the last 10 years recycling, not scrapping. this is my next step. In reviewing my past posts, I didn't really ask the correct question and I now know that this is not the correct forum either. I listen. I downloaded Hoke and am at page 52. I reviewed all the warnings. I painted my workbench( that otta take a couple days to dry) I have been entertaining this idea for 3 months. I'm in no hurry, the gold is just going to be worth more. I am doing some tests, very simple ones, alittle bit of material, cover with muratic acid, and watch to see. It's outside - it is real slow, but it is working. Gold recovery is not my expertise, but at some point in the past, it wasn't yours either. See ya on the gold refining forum.- Rck -

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    recovering gold from electronic parts

    Quote Originally Posted by rckww7 View Post
    When recovering gold from electronic parts( plated and fingers) how much can be accomplished using only hydrochloric acid? At what point will I HAVE to use nitric acid?
    you can use hcl/peroxide in pail for recovering fingers ,pins, and boards if solder mask on boards is removed with very good success. to learn
    visit gold refiners forum .com or email me

  29. #18
    NobleMetalWorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUGUY147 View Post
    you can use hcl/peroxide in pail for recovering fingers ,pins, and boards if solder mask on boards is removed with very good success. to learn
    visit gold refiners forum .com or email me
    I believe this is why conversations about this type of thing is frowned upon on this forum. And this is the point I keep trying to make, and seem to be failing miserably doing so.

    First, you don't just throw Peroxide in with HCl and recover gold from fingers, you make it sound simple and easy with no instruction. I want you to think about what you are suggesting and understand the dangers of what you just stated. It might seem like a fairly benign method to you but there are gases given off, and precautions that should be taken. In a lot of the cheesy videos where you see people doing things on a cluttered workbench, you hear them coughing or their raspy voice. There is a really good reason for this, it might seem like it's harmless but they sound that way many times because they are not doing things correctly, and have already adversely affected their health in a permanent way.

    First, when you add HCl to Peroxide and then introduce copper, you are making CuCl2 or copper (II) chloride . Here is the MSDS on that particular solution.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MS....1M_217.00.pdf

    You are right, that would be the way to remove the copper from fingers in a garage setup or for someone new, but it's far from being harmless. I hear people talk about it all the time as if it's not a big deal.

    You make no mention of the percentage of Peroxide you should use or in what amount. Most people believe more is better, and that's simply not the case here. So lets look at the MSDS for Peroxide:

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MS...20Peroxide.pdf

    And of course we all know how bad acid is, even HCl, so lets look at that MSDS:

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MSDS/msds%20HCl.pdf

    I am going to say this again.

    Before ANYONE attempts these types of recovery methods, you need to read, and read not only what pertains to what it is you endeavor to do, but read Hoke, or some other book on beginning chemistry, or learn from someone who is a chemist, or has experience in chemistry so that you understand the basic acceptable procedures when using chemicals and acids. It is never about just throwing HCl and Peroxide into a pail. I am not saying you cannot do it that way, I am saying that there is a lot more to it. If I had a flat tire, I could fill the tire up with cement, and it would work, but it's not the right way of doing things.

    If you read my post above, I stated where to go to get the information, I stated where to download the book by Hoke for free, or to purchase it. I even went as far as to post the name of the person on GRF whom a video could be purchased from to learn this specific process. I did all this without telling someone to throw an acid, and one of the most dangerous oxidants into a pail and make it sound so simple.

    For those reading and wondering about using this method, use my links above and do it properly. You have to use the correct amount of HCl/water/peroxide and use the correct percentage peroxide in order to start this solution properly, hell you need to start the solution properly. Then you need to provide air to continue the reaction, you need to understand when to remove part of the solution and add water to keep it going, you need to know how to properly dispose of the solution or plate out the copper values. It is NOT as simple as throwing whatever into a pail and magically recovering gold. For example, if you have too much peroxide in solution, which amounts to excess copious amounts of oxygen, you will dissolve your gold into solution, you will not de-foil it. Once in solution it will cement back out when the solution becomes saturated with copper but that means the otherwise easily filterable gold foils will be turned into a black sand material that you will not recognize as being gold. It will make it far more difficult to filter it back out of the solution and more difficult to refine as there will be base metals associated with it.

    If I sound pissed off, good, it gets me bent to see people who refuse, totally and utterly refuse to understand exactly what they are suggesting and how other people will take it, and what they will do with it. I believe this is the wrong place to be discussing how to recover and refine gold, and I think so because of these posts. There are not enough knowledgeable refiners willing to post about these things to prevent good people from making really bad mistakes because they have been mislead by other good people making suggestions they shouldn't be making.

    I read somewhere someone suggesting using a mason jar to do these reactions in with no mention of what would happen if they heated the mason jar and then cooled it down too quickly. I understand mason jars are made so that they can be boiled when jarring things, but that's a hot water bath so far as chemistry is concerned, and will not take a mason jar up to a temp where it becomes dangerous. Using a mason jar might work with some things when it comes to recovering and refining precious metals, but what the poster did not elude to is that mason jars are susceptible to thermal shock, which if they had read and understood the chemistry behind what we do, they would otherwise realize. Thermal shock happens when glass is heated, and then cooled too fast. When glass is heated it expands, when it cools at one point too fast, that part of the glass shrinks fast while the rest is expanded, it creates a situation where the glass actually pulls apart and bursts or explodes. If that happens when an acid solution is in the glass, that means very bad news indeed.

    This is what I mean, there are not enough of us to run around posting the safety precautions for all the other people posting about things they should not be posting about on this forum. It could lead to someone making a terrible mistake, or at worst cause harm or death.

    I know far too many people who have had very close calls or have been injured, to take the safety issues so nonchalant. I would suggest in the future that people who just cannot help posting their helpful instructions do so on GRF. Just simply point people in the correct direction to obtain all the information they will ever need in order to start safely, learning how to process and recover precious metals, or any metals for that matter. There is no good reason to post those lessons here, and it will only end up serving those people poorly compared to the hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge on GRF.

    Lets help empower people to learn the correct way to recover and refine precious metals if that is their intent instead of wasting their time giving them simplistic or downright incorrect information on how to refine precious metals. I'm all about helping people to learn, but I'm not about helping people learn how to accidentally hurt or kill themselves.

    The really sad part about this, is that I feel as a responsible person trying to prevent others from making terrible mistakes I should post warnings. In real life I am a very very laid back person, yet my posts when I respond to things of this nature do not reflect this fact about me. I believe to baby grown adults would just make my posts sound like I'm an alarmist, and not express how extremely serious this all is. So I am sharp with my tongue, I am blunt and say exactly what I think without reservation, I hold nothing back and probably end up offending a few people. If I do upset people that isn't my intent, but if I save someone because I come off sounding like a jerk, then I'm alright with that, more than alright with that.

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 03-08-2013 at 06:11 AM.

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  31. #19
    MattInTheHat's Avatar
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    They are trying to save peoples lives. What would you do if someone who has never driven anything wanted to know how to start a tractor trailer?

    There is a certain order that things need to be learned, and certain thing are better learned in person, with professional supervision.

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    I would like to sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone with my post. I did not intend to in any way make light of the gravity of the chemical procesess used in recovery and refining. I thank skylinejack for the kind words however am realizeing that perhaps it was a mistake to post a comment before reading the entire thread. I did not plagiarize other peoples posts as I had only read the first three replies and then made the rookie mistake of throwing in my two cents with out noticing that all that info was already there in the thread. I think that Scott is right in CLEARLY stating the dangers of using these chemicals. You can NEVER be too careful when recovering PM's. We may have different styles of encouraging people to read read read and study the hell out of what you want to do before doing it however the message is the same. Again, sorry Scott if my post seemed to step on your toes, that was not my intention. I agree that any question regarding such practices SHOULD be directed to the GRF. I also have to remind myself that not everyone thinks as I do so in making comments on forums I can not trust that the reader would do as I do and research and become as knowledgable as possible before starting in these processes. I spent at least six months preparing for my first attempt at using the A/P method. And yes, if you have to ask what that is, you DO need to spend some time in the GRF. The pics are a gruesome but legitimate warning to those using what i would consider an entry level acid. If you think the damage from that is bad, you havn't seen anything yet! Again, thanks Scott for being the sound voice of reason. To all those reading this thread, if you are able to derive tone from text and there appears to be some harsh responses, I don't think that is a bad thing. There are two sides to every gold plated RAM chip. The easiest side to see in the reward of the little micron thick flakes of gold, the harder side to see is the risks. You really can NOT hope to proceed with out fully knowing BOTH sides. Thanks for the info, and for tolerating my rant. Again thanks to all with the great info, and a plea of caution to those reading it.
    PEACE!

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