question about gold recovery

Originally Posted by AUGUY147

you can use hcl/peroxide in pail for recovering fingers ,pins, and boards if solder mask on boards is removed with very good success. to learn
visit gold refiners forum .com or email me

I believe this is why conversations about this type of thing is frowned upon on this forum. And this is the point I keep trying to make, and seem to be failing miserably doing so.

First, you don't just throw Peroxide in with HCl and recover gold from fingers, you make it sound simple and easy with no instruction. I want you to think about what you are suggesting and understand the dangers of what you just stated. It might seem like a fairly benign method to you but there are gases given off, and precautions that should be taken. In a lot of the cheesy videos where you see people doing things on a cluttered workbench, you hear them coughing or their raspy voice. There is a really good reason for this, it might seem like it's harmless but they sound that way many times because they are not doing things correctly, and have already adversely affected their health in a permanent way.

First, when you add HCl to Peroxide and then introduce copper, you are making CuCl2 or copper (II) chloride . Here is the MSDS on that particular solution.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MS....1M_217.00.pdf

You are right, that would be the way to remove the copper from fingers in a garage setup or for someone new, but it's far from being harmless. I hear people talk about it all the time as if it's not a big deal.

You make no mention of the percentage of Peroxide you should use or in what amount. Most people believe more is better, and that's simply not the case here. So lets look at the MSDS for Peroxide:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MS...20Peroxide.pdf

And of course we all know how bad acid is, even HCl, so lets look at that MSDS:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/MSDS/msds%20HCl.pdf

I am going to say this again.

Before ANYONE attempts these types of recovery methods, you need to read, and read not only what pertains to what it is you endeavor to do, but read Hoke, or some other book on beginning chemistry, or learn from someone who is a chemist, or has experience in chemistry so that you understand the basic acceptable procedures when using chemicals and acids. It is never about just throwing HCl and Peroxide into a pail. I am not saying you cannot do it that way, I am saying that there is a lot more to it. If I had a flat tire, I could fill the tire up with cement, and it would work, but it's not the right way of doing things.

If you read my post above, I stated where to go to get the information, I stated where to download the book by Hoke for free, or to purchase it. I even went as far as to post the name of the person on GRF whom a video could be purchased from to learn this specific process. I did all this without telling someone to throw an acid, and one of the most dangerous oxidants into a pail and make it sound so simple.

For those reading and wondering about using this method, use my links above and do it properly. You have to use the correct amount of HCl/water/peroxide and use the correct percentage peroxide in order to start this solution properly, hell you need to start the solution properly. Then you need to provide air to continue the reaction, you need to understand when to remove part of the solution and add water to keep it going, you need to know how to properly dispose of the solution or plate out the copper values. It is NOT as simple as throwing whatever into a pail and magically recovering gold. For example, if you have too much peroxide in solution, which amounts to excess copious amounts of oxygen, you will dissolve your gold into solution, you will not de-foil it. Once in solution it will cement back out when the solution becomes saturated with copper but that means the otherwise easily filterable gold foils will be turned into a black sand material that you will not recognize as being gold. It will make it far more difficult to filter it back out of the solution and more difficult to refine as there will be base metals associated with it.

If I sound pissed off, good, it gets me bent to see people who refuse, totally and utterly refuse to understand exactly what they are suggesting and how other people will take it, and what they will do with it. I believe this is the wrong place to be discussing how to recover and refine gold, and I think so because of these posts. There are not enough knowledgeable refiners willing to post about these things to prevent good people from making really bad mistakes because they have been mislead by other good people making suggestions they shouldn't be making.

I read somewhere someone suggesting using a mason jar to do these reactions in with no mention of what would happen if they heated the mason jar and then cooled it down too quickly. I understand mason jars are made so that they can be boiled when jarring things, but that's a hot water bath so far as chemistry is concerned, and will not take a mason jar up to a temp where it becomes dangerous. Using a mason jar might work with some things when it comes to recovering and refining precious metals, but what the poster did not elude to is that mason jars are susceptible to thermal shock, which if they had read and understood the chemistry behind what we do, they would otherwise realize. Thermal shock happens when glass is heated, and then cooled too fast. When glass is heated it expands, when it cools at one point too fast, that part of the glass shrinks fast while the rest is expanded, it creates a situation where the glass actually pulls apart and bursts or explodes. If that happens when an acid solution is in the glass, that means very bad news indeed.

This is what I mean, there are not enough of us to run around posting the safety precautions for all the other people posting about things they should not be posting about on this forum. It could lead to someone making a terrible mistake, or at worst cause harm or death.

I know far too many people who have had very close calls or have been injured, to take the safety issues so nonchalant. I would suggest in the future that people who just cannot help posting their helpful instructions do so on GRF. Just simply point people in the correct direction to obtain all the information they will ever need in order to start safely, learning how to process and recover precious metals, or any metals for that matter. There is no good reason to post those lessons here, and it will only end up serving those people poorly compared to the hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge on GRF.

Lets help empower people to learn the correct way to recover and refine precious metals if that is their intent instead of wasting their time giving them simplistic or downright incorrect information on how to refine precious metals. I'm all about helping people to learn, but I'm not about helping people learn how to accidentally hurt or kill themselves.

The really sad part about this, is that I feel as a responsible person trying to prevent others from making terrible mistakes I should post warnings. In real life I am a very very laid back person, yet my posts when I respond to things of this nature do not reflect this fact about me. I believe to baby grown adults would just make my posts sound like I'm an alarmist, and not express how extremely serious this all is. So I am sharp with my tongue, I am blunt and say exactly what I think without reservation, I hold nothing back and probably end up offending a few people. If I do upset people that isn't my intent, but if I save someone because I come off sounding like a jerk, then I'm alright with that, more than alright with that.

Scott