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    Dbone started this thread.
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    Over 300 Metal Halide Industrial Lights, Aluminum Reflectors, Huge Transformers, HELP

    My job asked me if I knew anyone who would take all of these old light fixtures from the 70's and 80's so I said I was interested. I am not sure what I am getting myself into, but up for the challenge. I searched through the forum and found 2 other similar posts, but they were a bit different and I signed up to the site to get some pointers from you pros. I plan on bringing home around 20 at a time, disassembling them, and separating the metals. Does anyone have experience with these? Maybe 30 of them have a glass layer under the aluminum reflector, so I will have to deal with that. I have never scrapped anything in my life and if someone could give me some pointers to help out, it would be much appreciated.<br><br>I can not upload photos, likely because I'm new, but here are two pics from my google photos.

    Edit: Apparently I can not post links either. Not sure how to show you all what I have?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
    My job asked me if I knew anyone who would take all of these old light fixtures from the 70's and 80's so I said I was interested. I am not sure what I am getting myself into, but up for the challenge. I searched through the forum and found 2 other similar posts, but they were a bit different and I signed up to the site to get some pointers from you pros. I plan on bringing home around 20 at a time, disassembling them, and separating the metals. Does anyone have experience with these? Maybe 30 of them have a glass layer under the aluminum reflector, so I will have to deal with that. I have never scrapped anything in my life and if someone could give me some pointers to help out, it would be much appreciated.<br><br>I can not upload photos, likely because I'm new, but here are two pics from my google photos.

    Edit: Apparently I can not post links either. Not sure how to show you all what I have?
    Upload a photo to imgur.com and just post in the link

    Transformers you have 2 options, scrap whole ($0.08/lb) by me, or get a cutoff wheel so you can cut them in half and get the copper out and then sell the copper ($2/lb by me) and the steel carcass of the transformer ($0.04/lb by me as light iron.

    Since you probably won't be making this a frequent thing I would just take the transformers, as many as you can at a time, and drive em straight to the scrap yard. Ask what they pay for them. Yards by me put them in the same category as electric motors... I've heard of some yards having their own transformer category/price... And some crappy yards will just pay shred/light iron price for them.

    The lights, take apart, take out the aluminum, any cords/wires, and anything else that is easy to get off/out that is different than just normal steel. I would then throw the rest (glass and all) into my shred pile and my yard would take the carcass, glass included, and pay light iron price on the whole thing. Key is making sure the glass does not break and is still attached/inside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kss View Post
    Upload a photo to imgur.com and just post in the link

    Transformers you have 2 options, scrap whole ($0.08/lb) by me, or get a cutoff wheel so you can cut them in half and get the copper out and then sell the copper ($2/lb by me) and the steel carcass of the transformer ($0.04/lb by me as light iron.

    Since you probably won't be making this a frequent thing I would just take the transformers, as many as you can at a time, and drive em straight to the scrap yard. Ask what they pay for them. Yards by me put them in the same category as electric motors... I've heard of some yards having their own transformer category/price... And some crappy yards will just pay shred/light iron price for them.

    The lights, take apart, take out the aluminum, any cords/wires, and anything else that is easy to get off/out that is different than just normal steel. I would then throw the rest (glass and all) into my shred pile and my yard would take the carcass, glass included, and pay light iron price on the whole thing. Key is making sure the glass does not break and is still attached/inside.
    Ah I misread. The transformers are part of the light, not seperate. Either way, I would likely seperate into the following piles...

    Wires/cords
    Brass bits if there is any and they aren't hard to seperate
    Copper bits if there is any and they aren't hard to seperate
    Transformers
    Aluminum reflector's
    Everything else that's left over

    Also, before I take anything apart I always check eBay/craigslist/etc to see if they have any resell value. If anything has any resale value you'll make more and work less selling them as is. Might not have a market for them though, just throwing it out there to check before assuming they are only scrap value
    Last edited by kss; 02-21-2020 at 05:55 PM.

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    Dbone started this thread.
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    Thanks for the reply. I tried registering on imgur and every time they sent a verification code to my phone, it claimed the number was wrong. Anyhow im putting some spaces in this link, just close them up and you can see what it is I have. I have the tools to cut open transformers and I enjoy taking things apart. I believe the transformers are inside cast aluminum housing and others are in a housing of an unknown metal. It is not magnetic. I guess it could be aluminum, but not sure.

    photos. app. goo. gl /sSKHe6vFzxEjTPPh7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I tried registering on imgur and every time they sent a verification code to my phone, it claimed the number was wrong. Anyhow im putting some spaces in this link, just close them up and you can see what it is I have. I have the tools to cut open transformers and I enjoy taking things apart. I believe the transformers are inside cast aluminum housing and others are in a housing of an unknown metal. It is not magnetic. I guess it could be aluminum, but not sure.

    photos. app. goo. gl /sSKHe6vFzxEjTPPh7
    I never signed up for imgur usually you can just upload without signing up or anything... Anywho, hard to tell from the picture, but if the casings are non-magnetic, my guess would be that it is cast aluminum, which would make sense if they are outdoor lights (doesn't rust).

    Those big thick plugs/wires I think sell for a pretty good penny (more than scrap value)... But even if you don't resell the plugs if they all have those big thick ones that'll be a pretty good payday of insulated wire.

    If you take just 1 apart as much as you can, seperate everything out into like materials, and take some pics we could probably help a good bit more.

    It'll be a good payday, I'd take all those in a second!

    If I you take apart 1 you can also extrapolate out the effort/payout. So for example, take 1 and time yourself taking it completely apart. Say it takes 15 mins and you end up with (from just 1 light)

    2lb insulated wire
    15lb cast aluminum
    10lb transformer
    10lbs everything else

    By me that would be
    $0.80
    $3.15
    $0.80
    $0.40
    Or $5.15 for 15 mins of work, or $20.60/hr. Probably worth it to take apart. This is just an example, but this is what I would do before taking apart all 300 of them and realizing you've wasted your time.
    Last edited by kss; 02-21-2020 at 07:02 PM.

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    Dbone started this thread.
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    Awesome man. I'm excited to get started. I will start taking the ones I have apart and send some pics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
    Awesome man. I'm excited to get started. I will start taking the ones I have apart and send some pics.
    Sounds good! Good luck! Take one apart like, literally as much as you can, so you can see the effort/time it takes to get various parts of it apart and determine what's worth it and what's not, to take apart.

    For example, say there is a part inside that has 0.01lbs of brass, but it takes you 10 mins to get the brass seperated from the other part. Yes brass is worth more, but if it takes a while, it isn't worth the trouble. Especially if you have to do 300.... in that situation just throw the whole part into the shred/light iron pile @0.04/lb and move on. Prioritize ease of seperation.... Time is money
    Last edited by kss; 02-21-2020 at 07:50 PM.

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    Dbone started this thread.
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    I took apart 2 different kinds. Items and approximate weight:

    Shiny aluminum reflector- 1.5lbs
    dirty reflector- same, but has thick glass inside it also.
    big transformer- 15.5 lbs
    smaller transformer- 12 lbs
    dirty cast aluminum - 5 lbs
    not sure what white housing is. Could it also be painted cast aluminum? It is not magnetic. It weighs 3 lbs

    The wires are copper, but many thin wires individually insulated inside the whole plug. Is this worth stripping? What about the transformers? If I take a cut off wheel to one side I should be able to pop out the windings. What is the body of the transformer made from? Sorry about all of the newbie questions, but I'm already having fun. There's not a time limit on this so it can be something to do when Im not at work to make a bit of side money.

    photos. app. goo. gl/ CNzG8dFg1QA9LpTr7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
    I took apart 2 different kinds. Items and approximate weight:

    Shiny aluminum reflector- 1.5lbs
    dirty reflector- same, but has thick glass inside it also.
    big transformer- 15.5 lbs
    smaller transformer- 12 lbs
    dirty cast aluminum - 5 lbs
    not sure what white housing is. Could it also be painted cast aluminum? It is not magnetic. It weighs 3 lbs

    The wires are copper, but many thin wires individually insulated inside the whole plug. Is this worth stripping? What about the transformers? If I take a cut off wheel to one side I should be able to pop out the windings. What is the body of the transformer made from? Sorry about all of the newbie questions, but I'm already having fun. There's not a time limit on this so it can be something to do when Im not at work to make a bit of side money.

    photos. app. goo. gl/ CNzG8dFg1QA9LpTr7

    This may be different around you, at lot of yard pay different for cast/sheet aluminum, you might have to ask them.... also, that looks "clean" enough to pass as regular aluminum (not dirty aluminum) at my yard.... so, going by your numbers, and my yards pricing (yours may/will be different, but just to give an idea).....

    Shiny aluminum reflector- 1.5lbs (sheet alum @0.21 = $0.31)
    dirty reflector- same, but has thick glass inside it also. ( would go as "shred/light iron" unless you could seperate it, so 1.5lb @ 0.04 = $0.06)
    big transformer- 15.5 lbs (elec motor category by me, @$0.08 = $1.24)
    smaller transformer- 12 lbs (elec motor category by me, @$0.08 = $0.96)
    dirty cast aluminum - 5 lbs (depending on how dirty, could get away with normal cast alum pricing @$0.21 = $1.05)
    not sure what white housing is. Could it also be painted cast aluminum? It is not magnetic. It weighs 3 lbs (lets assume its alum @$0.21= $0.63)

    So in total (excluding wires) = $4.25 from what you did. You said it was 2 of them, and have 300, so $4.25*150= $637.5 total if you do them all and get similar prices to me (still excluding wires)

    I usually dont strip wires, but also, wire is a very could paying item per lb. Everything wire that i see in the pic, I would just throw into 1 pile because my yard only has 1 insulated wire category (other than romex house wiring) that pays $0.40/lb.

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    The transformers may be Al/Cu and not just Cu in which case they'll be cheaper
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    The other thing you'll run into is a transformer of some kind. Some call it a light ballast. I haven't done this kind of light fixture before but read up on them with wiki.

    The ideal thing would be the kind shown in JJ's picture. Let's focus just on this kind for now.

    There are three kinds:

    #1: Copper wound: Pretty simple really. The windings are copper. These ones have the best value. You just have to decide if you want to break them down or sell them whole.

    #2: Copper / Aluminum wound: Some of the windings are copper and some are aluminum wire. Try cutting into the windings to see what they are. Copper is pretty obvious. Aluminum windings are harder and have a greyish color in the middle. Probably best to sell these ones whole.

    #3: Aluminum wound: Not as common but i've seen a few. Sell these ones whole.

    Hope this is helpful for someone just starting out.

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    Db,

    The terms that the scrapyards use for the different kinds of metal can be a little challenging for a guy that's never scrapped anything in his life before. To add to the confusion ... different yards use different terms. The two yards that i use aren't very sophisticated so their grading system is a bit easier for a new guy to wrap his head around. This is the way it was explained to me when i was first starting out with aluminum.

    Category 1: Extruded aluminum. ( You probably won't find that in your light fixtures so don't worry about it till later on. )

    Category 2: Cast aluminum. It's an aluminum piece that was cast in a mold to make a shape like a box or whatever. The main thing about cast is that it's brittle. It breaks into pieces when you hit it with a hammer.

    Category 3: Sheet aluminum. If you look at the light domes you can see that they were stamped out of a sheet to make that shape. Hit the dome with a hammer. You can see that it dents but it's not brittle like cast.

    Category 4: Irony aluminum. Some people call it breakage. Others have different terms. The basic idea is that it's aluminum that's contaminated with another kind of metal -or- non metal. (This is the lowest paying grade of aluminum.)

    The yard that you use might have a different way of grading the scrap but this is the basic idea. It will get you in the ballpark for sorting purposes. Now you have to bear in mind that aluminum prices aren't what they were years ago. It may / may not be a great payoff. I've been talking with the local scrappers in my area and it's come to a point where most don't want to be bothered with it anymore. On the other hand ... i was talking with one fulla last week that was fully satisfied with the price and felt that he did well on his last trip to the yard. This will probably be one of those things where you will have to try it out for yourself and decide if the juice was worth the squeeze or not.

    Best of luck !

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    Check how the transformer Iron is made/assembled.Theres normally two different ways they make them.
    The Iron laminations are either
    1) 'Stacked' & identical shaped laminations are stacked on each other. Or.
    2) 'Interlaced', they alternate how the Iron laminations are laid onto each other.

    If they are 'Stacked' theres normally a thin weld across the block of laminations to hold them together & its made of two 'Stacks' that can be pryed apart.
    Sometimes the weld actually joins the two stacks together, or the two stacks are stuck together like you would join 2 jigsaw peices.
    The advantage if they are 'Stacked' Iron core transformers is that with some effort, prying or bashing, you can seperate the two Stacks & remove the Copper coils from the Iron cores.

    With a bit more work you can remove any plastic or mica paper insulation from the Copper wire & get more money by selling the Copper wire as 'Copper domestic' or if you are lucky, 'Copper #2'.
    I'd expect the Copper wire weighs between 700 & 900 grams per transformer.

    You should also be able to sell the still stacked Iron cores as 'HMS insize'

    Its a lot of extra work, but extra $$ and I would definatly do that if I could. Though its easy money for little work if you don't.

    The Cast Aluminium box around the transformer could also be Magnesium, if it feels 'just a bit too light', its probably Magnesium.
    I just chuck that stuff in with my Aluminium since I dont get much of it, its probably the same price as Aluminium ( or less ) but Aluminium normally has Magnesium alloyed in it so its not much of a big deal unless theres hundreds & hundreds of Kgs of Magnesium.
    Last edited by eesakiwi; 02-22-2020 at 08:48 AM.

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    For example, this transformer is 'Stacked'. You can see the ' E ' shape stack that the Copper coils wound around the inside finger of the E.
    The other ' I ' shaped stack, the closest side to you, you can see the faint line where they join, and the slight hollow on the outer of the core on the faint line, where the weld is.
    Bash that 'I' core on one end a few times, flip it over & bash the other end & it will start breaking off, untill its just the E & the Copper coils.
    Punch the E out of the Coils.
    Then, in this case theres varnished cardboard around the coil, cut thru it & peel as much off as possible.

    Find out exactly what they would class this as, and its price. I would expect 'Copper Dom(estic)' but a year ago i would have got 'Copper #2' price.
    My buyer might even say "Copper burnt'. Depending on what they are selling at the time.


    This is a very good photo of a Microwave oven transformer partly split open at the join, if you use a angle grinder, you can partly grind a groove 8nto that weld to weaken it and the I core won't break apart ( some might still ) when the I stacks removed from the E stack.
    Microwave oven coils are normally about 900 gms, so 2 Lbs.
    But, later model microwave transformers are very often one Copper coil, & one Aluminium coil.
    Even worse, some have 2 Aluminium coils.
    Its easy to figure out beforehand by scraping a 3xpos3d part of the coil with a knife, screwdriver, or preferred, a file. If its a lighter reddish Copper where you exposed the inner of the wire. Its Copper.
    If its White or Silvery, its Aluminium.
    It would pay to check first, but i would not expect there to be any Aluminium coils in lighting transformers.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This transformer is interesting, its not common, but its the easyest version to work with.
    Its simply a Stacked outer core, with a Stacked Inner core, thats got the Copper coils on it.
    Use maybe a Hydraulic press to press the inner Iron core laminations & coil out in one piece.
    I would use my 'Thor' like heavy short handled hammer & my bench vise.
    Thats definatly some good workout for your biceps. Well one at least.

    Then punch the Iron ' I ' shaped core out of the Copper coils.
    Its the same insulation as above.


    300 transformers? !!! Thats about NZ$1800 worth of Copper. Maybe round down to NZ$1500, thats US$1000.
    Do break one open, clean & weigh the Copper ( check that they are Copper ) coils, use something accurate to a few grams.
    Post your results please.

    You wont be able to post photos untill you have made something like 7 or 8 posts.
    Last edited by eesakiwi; 02-22-2020 at 09:53 AM.

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  25. #15
    Dbone started this thread.
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    How long must I wait before I can post links?


    I
    'm impressed with this forum and its members. I've ran across both types of transformers in my first 2 lights so far and it didn't take too long to take apart. I'm positive I can get even faster, so that's no problem. I'm now trying to imagine how much space I will need to achieve this task. I have a 20'x20' garage but that will fill up quickly I imagine. What are some tips you guys use to stay organized and proficient? Here are 2 more pics of some progress. Just close the spaces in the links.

    photos. app. goo. gl/ qedNi7i6Ap97YVPm6
    photos. app. goo. gl/ D1vprmkuwmJ4RzQH8
    Last edited by Dbone; 02-22-2020 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Can't post links yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
    How long must I wait before I can post links?


    I
    'm impressed with this forum and its members. I've ran across both types of transformers in my first 2 lights so far and it didn't take too long to take apart. I'm positive I can get even faster, so that's no problem. I'm now trying to imagine how much space I will need to achieve this task. I have a 20'x20' garage but that will fill up quickly I imagine. What are some tips you guys use to stay organized and proficient? Here are 2 more pics of some progress. Just close the spaces in the links.

    photos. app. goo. gl/ qedNi7i6Ap97YVPm6
    photos. app. goo. gl/ D1vprmkuwmJ4RzQH8

    Aw man you can do all 300 out of a 20x20 garage! (Maybe lol)

    Everyone has their own "system" I have essentially 2 piles in my garage, one, along the back wall that is my "queue"... This is basically my dumping ground. And then I have a gaylord sized box (was actually a couch box... but its huge and sturdy) that is my "shred"/"light iron" place.

    So if I was you I would stack as many as I could, up to the ceiling in the back, then work on taking them apart as you have time. All the screws and breakage and stuff that is magnetic metal goes in the shred pile towards the front of the garage, and then everything else that is its own category of thing goes into their own bins. When the bins fill up, I take em to the yard to cash in. Then start over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbone View Post

    I
    'm impressed with this forum and its members. I've ran across both types of transformers in my first 2 lights so far and it didn't take too long to take apart. I'm positive I can get even faster, so that's no problem. I'm now trying to imagine how much space I will need to achieve this task. I have a 20'x20' garage but that will fill up quickly I imagine. What are some tips you guys use to stay organized and proficient?
    Just a few suggestions:

    Do the nastiest, hardest, least paying work first. Discipline yourself and save the best for last. That keeps you working toward the end goal payout and gives you something to look forward too.

    Make a few trips to different yards in your area and see if you can establish a rapport with the people there. Get a feel for how it all works before rolling in with a large load of anything. Also ... get a sense of how they treat the newbie that's easily fooled. Is it an honest yard ? Bring a copy of their price sheet home and study all the different categories. Any questions ? Let us know. We might be able to help you with that end of things.

    You may generate some trash with this project. Make a plan for how you're going to deal with it.

    I'm uncertain about those metal halide bulbs. They may have mercury in them. Try to do the right thing and see to it that they are properly disposed of as a hazardous material. They may be pressurized to 50 PSI as well ?
    That's it's own hazard. Ya know ... accidentally drop one and it goes off like a little hand grenade ?

    Perhaps set up a little (dis)assembly line in your garage. You would have to figure out the smoothest step by step order of operations on that one. Station 1 you do this. Station 2 you do that .. and so on.

    Put the (sheet) domes in one pile.

    Put the (cast ) boxes in another pile.

    Put all your wire in a barrel or contractor's trash bag.

    Put all your transformers in another pile -or- in a big box somewhere out of the way. Looks like they will be your payoff at the end of the job so just leave them be till all your other work has been done. You're going to have a bit of copper there. Somewhere around 1,000 lbs ? Play your cards right and you might be able to negotiate a better price if you bring it all in at once. Get to know your yard first though.

    For the sake of simplicity and ease:

    Bring all your domes at once. Same thing with the cast and so on if you can. Try to avoid having a dozen different things on the truck when you offload at the yard.

    Give some thought to the people that you are getting the lights from. Are they in a rush to get them out of there ? If so ... put their need first before your own.

    =================

    It was a good day today. I've been setting all my copper bearing goodies aside and getting the scut work out of the way first. Finally got caught up and started work on rotors, stators, transformers and so on. Nice little haul of about 50 lbs of #2 copper. (One single gen head had over 23 lbs of copper in it.) Not much by some standards but good for me.

    Gotta go back to work on my regular day job tomorrow.

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  29. #18
    Dbone started this thread.
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    Reply to Hills, also sorry for double post.

    That's some great advice. What you said about "putting their needs above your own" especially. I may have went at my own pace, but they did tell me they wanted it gone so I need to work out getting it out of there asap. There are about 120 ready to go right now and another 200 estimated they are changing in the next couple of weeks. I can maybe fit 18-20 in the bed of my Ranger at once. They don't stack too well. Maybe I can rent a uhaul trailer to get them to my back yard. I have HOA where I live and don't want to piss them off either.

    I also really like the idea of saving the best for last. Transformers aren't that big and I can pile them up into a mountain and tackle it all over a weekend. I will be sure to document it for you all, maybe it will be like scrap porn, haha.

    I thought I was motivated before, but after joining this site, I could not be more motivated. When I'm at work tomorrow, I'm going to be thinking about disassembling lights. Time to get to work!
    Last edited by Dbone; 02-23-2020 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Reply is for hills

  30. #19
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    This should be a fun project. I did 26 parking lot lights this past summer. Fun stuff.

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    Dbone started this thread.
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    If it breaks with a hammer hit, is it always some form of cast aluminum? Here is a photo of the housing I was uncertain of. It broke like an eggshell with a hard smack with my hammer.

    photos. app.goo. gl/ QqrF77jy9LuTDw7m7

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