Plan B.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

I think we could fairly say that a lot of the problems revolve around " entitlements". There's a certain worldview (left of center) that states:

A: All people have certain inalienable human rights. ie: The right to access the healthcare system.

If you live in our society you're "entitled" to receive a number benefits from the government as long as you meet certain criteria. The cost is NOT a consideration ! This is the morally right thing.

B: The world is not even. That's not right. It's the correct role of government to level the playing field by harvesting the fruit of the labor of those producing something & re-distribute it to those who have less.

While this may ultimately be the right thing they just aren't factoring in the economic impact. Economics knows nothing of right & wrong. It only knows numbers. If the numbers are good the system works. If the numbers DON'T add up the system is bound to collapse in upon itself.

Greece is heavily socialized. They've been racking up a huge debt to keep their entitlement programs afloat but the time has come to pay the piper. They can't keep refinancing their debt anymore.

Spain's version of Social Security is going bankrupt because there aren't enough working people paying into the system.

You see it all over Europe where the worldview is that the purpose of the government is to provide for you from " Cradle to Grave".

We have it here in the states as well. We recently took on a huge entitlement obligation with Obamacare. Our projected debt is now something like 17 trillion before we reach a balanced budget ?

This really isn't a political or moral issue. It's strictly economic. Unless something majikal happens this can only turn out one way.

Good analogy. The Primary problem is, where is the interest in solving the problem. This thread has half a dozen posters out of 20,000 around the world.



I know this is a scrap metal forum not a political one but politics has a direct effect on each scrapper ie. prices and ability to put food on the table. To many individuals in this country and around the world just turn off their tv or computer when its time to go to the mail box for their check.

Countries with the made in (made in China) label have always lead the world. look back at history and follow the standing of that country in the pecking order have always ruled the world. with out that label we are dependent on the countries who's name is on that label. UK, Germany, The U.S. Japan ect. all were at the peak of influence when their label was a representation
of their ability to produce products.

Our job as scrappers is to provide some of the material to produce those products and there in lies the direct correlation to scrapping and politics.

First I will agree with most of your points, except one:

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

I have to admit I am a little confused by the statement. I thought the far, far, left of center have been in control for the last eight years. Am I missing something. Our present administration has racked up a larger debt than all of the previous administrations combined. Maybe more education on my part is needed because I fail to see your point.

I agree that our government is living beyond its means, but if I have a choice between our military spending and our social welfare system there is no doubt in my mind. If you are one that depends on government handouts, I feel sorry for you.

Without getting political (against forum rules) I will end this with three letters: FDR and those that follow his footsteps.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

If it's okay i'm going to steer it back just a bit ....

AGW brought up the issue of food stamps & social welfare as being a part of the problem. I broadened it out a bit by saying that "entitlements" are a huge part of our budget. That would include Social Security,Medicare,Mediacaid,VA benefits, Disability benefits,Food Stamps,WIC, Fuel Assistance,Obamacare, and so on.

It's all the same thing. Please don't get mad when i say this, but there really is no difference between the man drawing an unemployment check and the gent who earned his VA benefits. Under our system both men are equally entitled to receive benefits.

The core problem is simply that we as a nation are living beyond our means.

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

The American military industrial complex & the global projection of American military power is considered to be of paramount importance. When it comes right down to it we are the police force of the world. Without the stability we provide the world would be a very different place. The Hitlers, Stalins, and Saddam Husseins would run wild and beat up on everybody.

This is also a huge part of our budget and another thing we cannot afford. We're borrowing money to keep our navy afloat.

Do you see what i'm saying ?

It really doesn't matter which side of the political fence you're on. It doesn't matter if your agenda is bread or bombs. Both sides have been equally reckless & irresponsible in running up a huge debt.

Therefore: This can't be solved politically.

It really is an economic problem. My personal opinion is that it's just a matter of time before our debt swallows us whole and we are forced into bankruptcy. It happened when the economic system of the former USSR collapsed. There's a very real possibility that it may happen to us as well. The cold war may have been a Pyrrhic victory for us. It's true that they died, but we may have been mortally wounded in the conflict as well.

That's where plan B comes in.

Please do not lump ss and medicare for those who worked all their lives and paid into a health care system and a retirement system that in today,s dollars should be worth over 800,000 for the average social security medicade investor. Those who did not pay in to FICA should not be listed as entitled. entitled means just that. I am Entitled to SS + interest and I am entitled to medicare because I payed for it and am still paying for it for over 55 years.

It is not my fault the government stole our money and used it on those not "entitled" to it.
It is a propaganda trick to lump welfare and other subsidies to those who didn't earn it and call it all entitlements.

There is actually an entire building in Quantico Va. for the sole purpose of holding file cabinets of Government IOU to the SS system to keep those who stole it out of jail. I know this sounds like tin foil hat stuff but it sadly isn't.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

To the best of my knowledge they started re-directing the funds coming into the Social Security Administration ----> to the U.S. treasury & issuing IOU's to SSA back during the Nixon (r) administration ?

Anyway, they broke the deal.What's done is done. That happened long before i started paying into the system & i've been working for close to 40 years now.

Actually I think it was before Nixon. Ill do some research and find out.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

If it's okay i'm going to steer it back just a bit ....

AGW brought up the issue of food stamps & social welfare as being a part of the problem. I broadened it out a bit by saying that "entitlements" are a huge part of our budget. That would include Social Security,Medicare,Mediacaid,VA benefits, Disability benefits,Food Stamps,WIC, Fuel Assistance,Obamacare, and so on.

It's all the same thing. Please don't get mad when i say this, but there really is no difference between the man drawing an unemployment check and the gent who earned his VA benefits. Under our system both men are equally entitled to receive benefits.

The core problem is simply that we as a nation are living beyond our means.

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

The American military industrial complex & the global projection of American military power is considered to be of paramount importance. When it comes right down to it we are the police force of the world. Without the stability we provide the world would be a very different place. The Hitlers, Stalins, and Saddam Husseins would run wild and beat up on everybody.

This is also a huge part of our budget and another thing we cannot afford. We're borrowing money to keep our navy afloat.

Do you see what i'm saying ?

It really doesn't matter which side of the political fence you're on. It doesn't matter if your agenda is bread or bombs. Both sides have been equally reckless & irresponsible in running up a huge debt.

Therefore: This can't be solved politically.

It really is an economic problem. My personal opinion is that it's just a matter of time before our debt swallows us whole and we are forced into bankruptcy. It happened when the economic system of the former USSR collapsed. There's a very real possibility that it may happen to us as well. The cold war may have been a Pyrrhic victory for us. It's true that they died, but we may have been mortally wounded in the conflict as well.

That's where plan B comes in.

Please do not lump ss and medicare for those who worked all their lives and paid into a health care system and a retirement system that in today,s dollars should be worth over 800,000 for the average social security medicade investor. Those who did not pay in to FICA should not be listed as entitled. entitled means just that. I am Entitled to SS + interest and I am entitled to medicare because I payed for it and am still paying for it for over 55 years.

It is not my fault the government stole our money and used it on those not "entitled" to it.
It is a propaganda trick to lump welfare and other subsidies to those who didn't earn it and call it all entitlements.

There is actually an entire building in Quantico Va. for the sole purpose of holding file cabinets of Government IOU to the SS system to keep those who stole it out of jail. I know this sounds like tin foil hat stuff but it sadly isn't.

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