A Scrapper's Dream - Page 6

Originally Posted by Patriot76

Thank you for posting this FLimits. If you had found it an hour earlier, you would have made a liar out me stating the information would not be out until morning. Thanks to you I now know I am being paid to break things in a $ 30 million dollar playground.

It's the other way around, Patriot. Thanks to you and this thread, I now know how many coal-fired plants are being closed down in the US, that there is a market for secondhand turbogenerators, how much scrap metal the US produces annually, and that you're a good guy who wears a black cowboy hat!

This week will be spent meeting with DJJ (Nucor) metal buyers, Sadoff metal buyer, the head of the Omaha Special Operations task force, and two heavy equipment salesman. The Omaha Special Ops includes Search and Rescue, fire department, and police department. We will be allowing them access before the majority of the crew enters the building. Benefits for the company include positive PR and professionals that know their way around the building if they are needed.

Time will also be spent in the plant developing a strategic plan. For the next two weeks a skeleton crew will be used to create exit points for metal, clear lanes, and remove fire brick from the boilers. We will also start removing the water from the sub floor section. The brick and concrete that is being removed will be dumped into the subfloor and a concrete formula will be poured on top to create a level floor. This will become the staging area for metal to exit the building.

As this is going on, we will be purchasing equipment and making decisions as to where we sell the metal. Once this is done we will know if we will be loading gondola cars, barges, or trucking the metal. This will dictate additional equipment purchases. The goal is to be on the ground running the third week of March with all equipment, burners trained and shooting for 75 tons per day. If our estimate of tonnage is correct we only need to remove 50 tons per day to meet our timeline. We will not know the true tonnage until the project is completed.

I don't know if this will be of any use to you, but a friend of mine who's in construction used these guys several years ago when he had to purchase some equipment: IronPlanet - Used Heavy Construction Equipment - Auction - Backhoes Dozers Excavators Farm Tractors - Caterpillar John Deere Case Komatsu for sale

Originally Posted by FLimits

I don't know if this will be of any use to you, but a friend of mine who's in construction used these guys several years ago when he had to purchase some equipment: IronPlanet - Used Heavy Construction Equipment - Auction - Backhoes Dozers Excavators Farm Tractors - Caterpillar John Deere Case Komatsu for sale

Thank you. Other valuable sites include Richie Brothers, Machinery Traders, and Rock and Dirt. Be careful what brand you buy because you need a local distributor for repair work. Otherwise repair costs skyrocket.

Just a little something about the puzzles you'll face.
Construction and demolition are near identical, although maybe in reverse order.
I just wanted to tell you my trick for sorting things out, although it may be already well known to you. In case it isn't, I'd like to offer it to you now.
Something like the job you've been given, maybe you have the plans, maybe they've made the charts for time frames, but you'll still have unknowns, maybe multiples in your case. You have a lot to deal with there I know.
I'm just talking about simple basics, and not getting lost. Somebody dumps a truckload of bolts and beams in your yard with no instructions, what do you do? Where do you start?
Simply sort it out, and take the parts you do know(that's my whole point here, the parts you do know or can figure), when you get those ones sorted out, the unknowns will most times sort themselves, and fit right in (or fall into place, as the case may be)

Something else just came to mind(not wanting to change the subject, or distract from my intended point) but there's a lot of weight up there, which you'll be cutting. There is a lot of energy stored in that dead weight, it is ruled by gravity. As you release that weight from it's moorings, gravity will turn it into energy, until it finds it's next resting place(safely, we hope). I'll liken it to felling a large tree for firewood. After it's found its resting place on the ground, there is still immense energy stored in every limb, and as you whittle each limb it releases the energy slowly. You build up blocking under the trunk to support it from underneath as you whittle away the weight(energy) from above, in small slices. By the time you get to the immense trunk, although it's much heavier than the energy laden limbs once above it, it has very little energy left, and can be more easily and safely cut and removed.

You'll have a lot of puzzles to solve, start with what you know; and a lot of energy to release, bring it down safely; and a lot of things to think about, don't let me distract you : )

Just an idea from a new member of the forum here.

I worked in the construction equipment rental business for a long time.

Perhaps renting machinery (heavy equipment) will be a better option than buying someone else's worn out bulldozer.

In my experience almost no one sells a machine that is still in good shape because once you pay it off, maintenance for the first decade or 2 isn't too bad and most people don't want to invest in a new machine when their 1982 d-8 Cat runs like a top.

First point on renting over buying-rental machinery is new and more reliable.

Second point you pay ZERO for repairs/breakdowns unless YOU cause the damage.

Third-the machine comes and goes from the site as needed instead of sitting around for months being used (in some cases) a few times a week.

Fourth-construction equipment is one of the most highly vandalized and stolen items in the world so you either have to pay for security 24/7 cause yes we had stuff stolen in broad daylight ourselves and it WILL happen on a large site like this more than likely.

Fifth-depending where you live/work and the local tax laws, rentals can be 100 percent write off, whereas purchases cannot.

I realize you are getting suggestions left right and centre from lots of folks here but I know a lot about equipment and it sucks when some little weazel comes along and rips you off.

It doesn't have to be something big to screw up the entire works either even if it is a power washer or a special wrench it can really stop you in your tracks.

Watch out for hiab trucks coming on and off site some crooks buy used ones and put fake company stickers on them.

Good luck with the project and I hope this job makes you a scrapillionaire.

All Ideas are welcome. He started this thread to share information and to gather as much as possible.

It's like the kid that walks up to the scene of a truck stuck under a bridge. The truck is 1 inch too tall, and the tow truck guys are staring at it. The kid says "why don't you let the air out of the tires"

Originally Posted by bullion

Watch out for hiab trucks coming on and off site some crooks buy used ones and put fake company stickers on them.

That was a good suggestion. Years ago there was a problem in the corn irrigated areas near me. Combines ran day and night and filled trucks coming into the fields. They had to hire a security guard at the field entrances after it was realized that rogue trucks were in the line-up to receive from the combines on the move. Credentials were needed after that. As with the powerhouse project with many employees there at all times, it would be easy for a thief to carry off the spoils unless measures are taken. That would mean night guards plus employee surveillance and could include onsite cameras with off site viewing potential. Employee theft has been a long time concern in any industry and remains to be at the top of the list.

Originally Posted by Patriot76

had to be explained by the guy that ran the crane to set them. Todd paid to have the retired crane operator fly to Omaha to go through the plant with us to explain how it was built. The boilers are supported by the ceiling. It pays to do your homework. ..... Time for reading glasses. And thanks again.

This is totally awesome, cool beans too : D You're very welcome Patriot, and, thank you also : )
I hope you found the old prints. Use those glasses, and any necessary magnification ( a lot! ; )

Glad I could help.

Keep in mind also the bigger rental companies (such as United Rentals) routinely sell off their fleets for new machinery.

Far less risky buying a well maintained ex rental fleet machine than buying from an auction.

If you approach a rental company with a project this size, believe me they will bend over backwards and sideways to help you out.

They also buy bulk fuel in mass quantities for their fleet so they could probably hook you up with a fuel company that will give you a good deal.

Remember you can use marked(farm) gas and diesel in off road equipment and that will save you a considerable amount of money in the long run.

Patriot, (is it Mike?)

I'm making a comment here to a comment you had made in Sledges thread on his neighbor being a jerk by running a truck all night. Sounds kinda convoluted but I don't want to highjack the thread by commenting there.

You had indicated you were going to reduce the hazard of coal dust when scrapping a couple of coal crushers by filling the building with exhaust gases from trucks, and credited this forum for the knowlege.

I had posted a long post on this forum about prepping large tanks for cutting by venting them and displacing the flammable gases with nitrogen. I'm sure I sounded like a safety Nazi (not my intent!) but it had to be said.

I hope this information is not guiding you as to how to control atmospheres that are susceptible to DUST explosions. It seems to me the control of dust explosions can be a completely different animal. I'm not an expert in dust but have been sensitized to it from the two tragic dust explosions recently experienced in northern BC sawmills.

I would suggest you talk to safety guys from the coal industry or grain handling industry to get up to the minute info on working in potentially explosive dust atmospheres. I believe there are safer ways of reducing or eliminating the hazard by (1) cleaning--digging the coal out of everything, and hosing everything clean with fire hoses, and (2) heavy ventilation. I don't think that displacing the oxygen in a building with CO2 or other products of combustion is a preferred method, since it forces all of the personnel who will need to go into this atmosphere be trained to wear Scott packs or some breathing apparatus. Maybe even a more dangerous situation than dust explosions! I would also guess that working in this kind of atmosphere will attract OSHA types like dogs to a gutwagon. As long as the dust is kept below a certain % in the air it will not combust, similar to that of % gases in the air, called the LEL, or lower explosive limit. For example, it is my understanding that dust in a sawmill only approaches the lower explosive level when it is so thick you cannot see more than 20 feet. Knowing this allows you to guage your actions.

You are probably 17 steps ahead of me on this....

By the way, I am impressed by the thoughtful comments by others on this thread. Lots of good heads out there!!


Jon.

Thanks Saw. First you get credit for the idea of displacing the oxygen and the responses by others on the forum indicated the cost of carbon dioxide v nitrogen. The coal mills (crushers) are actually sealed units when the valve is closed. We plan to fill the sealed crusher with carbon dioxide and close the valve. I had an expert in that used a lot of fancy terms and gases in his explanation. When he was done I asked can I just use nitrogen or even carbon dioxide. He said yes, he had not thought of that. Compliments to your last statement, the minds of many sometimes out smart the experts. When the time comes to dismantle these, I will post a more detailed explanation and pictures.

Thanks again.

Oh, okay.

When I read "crushers", I immediately thought of rock crushers. Never seen a coal crusher.

Jon.

Hey Patriot.....I thought of something today that I've run into in the past. If you have a lot of big water pipes, some may be ductile iron. I ran into some on a water tank project and had a tough time with them. They looked cast, but I couldn't break them with a backhoe. I tried a torch, but it only heated until red, but would never liquefy so I could cut it. There was one 24" pipe that I had to cut so I used a demo saw with diamond blades and it took two blades to cut it twice.

The rest of the pipes I could get out in 20 foot sections so I loaded them whole. I found out later (after the job) that I could have used a chain pipe cutter with cutting wheels on it like a copper tubing cutter. You wrap the chain around the pipe, tighten it and score the pipe for a smooth break. I think some of the cutting tools you have in your other thread might have worked also, maybe even a hotter torch. Maybe someone else has more experience with this than I do.

If you run into this stuff, it can be a pain, but it can be cut. If you need to cut it smooth to reuse, the chain pipe cutter could do the trick.

Pnutfarmer,

This is valuable information. The ductile pipe in the water tank project had enough steel that I was able to cut it. Did not think about using a pipe cutter. Good idea. I am researching if you can cut this type of pipe with a fuse, like rebar serving as a wick. I will let you know what is found. Thanks again.

Wow, look at all the riveted construction on those chutes in the first photo! Is the building riveted together, too? Have you noticed if anything was run with little auxiliary steam engines....back in the day, if there was steam available, that might happen. At least, I've heard of it in Liberty ships. Would love to lay my hands on an example of those little engines.

With regards to cutting malleable, you might have to get ahold of that top secret torch that can cut anything, even unobtainium with propane contaminated with water an muddy oxygen!

Jon.