Originally Posted by
sawmilleng
Guys,
Its all well and good to be cautious, but remember, this plant has been producing 1000 tons a month of this scrap for god knows how long. It also has invested in the equipment to crush, bale and load the the barrels and is currently loading them into shipping containers for moving to a purchaser. Nobody is stockpiling a 1000 tons a month of barrels somewhere because they are loaded with poisons. (Could the current scrapyard have supplied the equipment to the plant?)
I believe the OP stated they were compressed barrels, not scrap in barrels. And then being bailed and loaded into containers, there was no mention of sea containers. In the scrap metal industry there are no guarantees about anything. Even though the scrap yards have to be licensed, unless there are formal complaints about toxic spills the EPA does not have enough people to visit each site even once a year, so most operate either on the fringe, or illegally. Same goes for companies that are generating the waste metals. The US is one of the largest suppliers of recyclable metals in the world.
Also the equipment to crush barrels are reasonably inexpensive and fairly well known, I don't believe a scrap yard would be supplying equipment of that nature, it would make no sense.
Originally Posted by
sawmilleng
So a lot of the environmental issues have been looked at and it is known fully how to deal with them, at least at the plant that generates them. I'm sure that anyone who generates a million pounds per month of waste barrels gets lots of free scrutiny by the EPA!! And asked about disposal of wastes, etc.
There is no guarantee that they are dealing with them properly, and no guarantee that the Federal or State EPA has ever inspected them, or ever will. Like I said above, there are far too many scrap yards, junk yards, industrial operations, heck think of it this way. Anything that is manufactured, and I mean anything, in the US must comply with EPA regulations. It would take an ARMY of EPA inspectors to make sure all were working within the law. The EPA relies on whistle blowers, citizens, compliance companies and even companies that install equipment to notify them of any wrong doing, and only after a complaint has been established does the EPA inspect, and even then, usually, only after several complaints have been made. To install my fume scrubber for example I had to hire an engineer to submit the permits, and then had to hire a company licensed to install the equipment and all this accumulated paperwork goes to the EPA, they just make sure the paperwork is in order, and don't usually inspect, they rely on the engineer and the company that is licensed to install the equipment to ensure it's done properly.
Plus it should be up to each person doing business to make sure they are conducting themselves in a responsible way. I for one rather the government never get involved. I don't rely on government to do anything, let alone insure my safety, or the safety of people that would be affected by a business transaction I was involved in. So while I agree that the toxicity of the material should have already, and probably has been addressed, it's never a good idea to assume anything. Not ever.
Originally Posted by
sawmilleng
Also, the mere fact that they are loading sea cans with the product implies that the issues have been dealt with. And I'm not just suggesting its dripping with hoary crap heading for China, where the laws are more lax. I've seen a Chinese gov't inspector in Alberta, Canada, reject a shipping container of insulated copper wire because a couple of cables in the bales were gel-filled phone cables. The key here is that once the product is put in a sea can, it generates demurrage charges if there are things wrong with the shipment. So the waste generator and the company handling the scrap shipments must already have all of this sorted out.
The OP didn't say anything about the material being loaded in sea containers, only containers. He did mention that they were having a problem with transportation, but he hasn't clarified if the transportation company is the same as the processing company, or if it was currently going to a scrap yard or where. Usually, when large quantities of this type of material are bid on, and in the bid agreement is usually stipulations about the shipping or removal of the material. It could be a case where the company it's being shipped to, is not able to deal with the quantity, or they have another scrap source that is now overwhelming them, the bottleneck might be at the company that processes, or the company that transports, it isn't clear yet.
Originally Posted by
sawmilleng
There are just a couple of things that don't add up to me:
1. Container deliveries and pickups that don't happen regularly and are the source of the original problem. This service is not likely performed by the scrap company, but a container moving service. Whats up?
There was nothing stated about container deliveries, only the pickup of the material. And there was no mention about sea containers, only containers which could mean anything. Scrap metal yards often drop off containers that they own, not sea containers, for the scrap metal their customers generate. Then they pick up the containers when they are in the area or the regularly scheduled day, or when the customer calls to let them know they are full. When I owned a grocery store my we bailed all our cardboard, I purchased the bailer and paid for the upkeep. My first contract, before I knew better and because I got a better deal, I agreed to retain the bails on my property until they were in the area to pick them up. Problem was that by the time they showed up, I might have several trucks worth of bails. This became a problem because I had to keep them outside my fenced area, which allowed people with trucks to steal them. So after the year was up, my next contacts I signed required them to pick up once a week, but this also became a problem because if I didn't have x number of bails, then I got less for them and the trucker might show up Friday, then on Monday, then maybe not until the Friday the week following, so then my next contract... You get the picture. It's all in how you form your agreement. If there is no contract, then there is no agreement, and if the company has scrap worth more value to process, they might not pick up the metals until they are able to process them.
Originally Posted by
sawmilleng
2. Why is the original product moved in drums rather than larger bulk carrying tanks? A little work with a calculator suggests that a staggering number of drums are used every month, and most of the universe that handles those kinds of volumes has migrated to railway tank cars and the like eons ago.
Jon.
The scrap is the barrels, and depending on where they are generating the barrel waste, there is no guarantee that there is a rail head closer than 250 miles away. And even if there is, it also might be that the processor isn't near a rail head. Most industry doesn't have a rail in their backyard or a rail head close by.
Scott
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