Curbco Shopping

I wanted to explain my response to another thread without derailing it https://www.scrapmetalforum.com/off-...al-ss-era.html.

This is the second time I have tried this type of scrapping. I live about 45 miles from a community of 20,000 and this is the closet stop light to my home. Last year during the community clean up I took an individual with me and loaded up my "tub trailer" one I built from an old stock trailer, and gave that individual all of the proceeds. It was about $ 500 and the individual that benefited was "challenged." Today I did the same thing and will not know the value until tomorrow. I will be doing the same thing the rest of the week. Please understand that I am financially secure and just repaying my debt to society and the earth.

Some members on the forum might be Catholic and give a tith of their income to the church. I am not very religious, but very spiritual and all of the above is provided as a preface to my next statements.

While out doing the rounds I ran across several groups that could not speak English. The assumption that they were illegal immigrants came to my mind until I returned home and did some research. Did you realize you could take the naturalization test in Spanish? To tie this together, I am competing to help a US citizen down on their luck with illegal imagrants. To add insult to injury, this is in the heartland of our country. Adminstration may decide to remove this thread because it not politically correct, but I am tired of being politically correct.

No problem, there P76, you could never derail a thread of mine.

My hat's off to you helping a less fortunate citizen do some curbco. There's a young guy that works at a discount store here in bedroom town that I'd love to buy a decent dependable car for him to get to work. I heard him talking a few weeks ago about being sort of stranded by his "wheels" not working (I think he commutes into bedroom town to work) and his manager told him tough teet, get to work. I stopped in there tonight and asked him if his car was working and he said yes and pointed to an about an '83 Bonneville that should have been a movie prop. I'd love someday to totally surprise a kid like that (I like his work ethic, been in that store in the evnings more than once) and drop a 2-3 grand in buying someone like that a dependable old ride. Not trying to be a hero or stroke my ego, just do something totally unexpected and nice for someone. Maybe someday.

P76- I think you'd be surprised how many "indentured servants" we have in this state. The ag economy is tight margins and generally runs on economies of scale where low profit per unit of production only makes a middle-class or "better" lifestyle up by sheer volume. A guy or family gets across the border and ends up in some isolated small town (or out on the farm) and has no documentation so his boss basically has him by the short hairs (of course the illegal usually doesn't know that if boss turns the illegal in, boss is admitting guilt in hiring him in the first place). Boss keeps his working and out of town and maybe the foreman takes the "boys" in somewhere every couple of weeks to "blow off some steam" in a bar where English isn't spoken. In your case, that ride would probably be a couple of hours to get done. I suppose a life like that is better then gang members threatening to kill you or your family but its not exactly free either. We as a society really don't know what a lot of hired farm labor would go for at an open hourly rate because there's always been, at least in other parts of the country, the safety switch that "let's hire an illegal to do it, they won't complain about things." Cheap, "quiet" labor is preferred. I don't know what the answer is P76, but "Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore..."

Always been torn about folks seeking a better life as I know I might do the same if in that position...especially if family involved. That being said, when I started a construction biz in the early 90's I wanted to do it by the book and not like most that either 1099'd or paid help under the table to avoid paying payroll taxes. In a span of 15 years I witnessed new home construction being taken over by southern tourist and even though the prices of houses sky rocketed, the prices being paid dropped and the work load increased due to new codes being enforced. I no longer replaced help that quit until it was just me. Sad thing was many tourist worked harder then locals and would work weekends, but as I stated, I ran my biz legitimately.

Last week we had a trucker that barley spoke English, but had a green card, kill four people and cause a major incident on I-70 as he slammed into traffic doing 85 mph due to smoking his brakes coming down the grade into Denver.
https://www.9news.com/article/news/l...a-b83583910cc8

Scrap metal doesn't care what color your skin is, what religion you are or even if you are rich or poor. The way I see it is if someone uses this source of revenue to get buy another day good for them! People deal in scrap metal in every country in this world I believe.

Build the wall MAGA

Is it really a race issue ?

Is it really an immigration issue ?

Maybe you just resent the competition ? ( I know i do at times. )

You know how it is ... you're trying to get something done and help someone out. There's a bunch of people in your way and it's messin' up your Mojo.
Things that make you go ..... GRRRR v:)

< Sigh > We live in a competitive world. Look at nature and how just about everything out there is in a constant state of competition. It's the law of the jungle where only the fittest survive. Our world is like that too. To try to make it otherwise simply wouldn't be right. Over the long run .... natural law always holds true.

I agree that they are great workers and have every right to better themselves. I just think one expectation for living in the U.S. should be to learn our language. In decades past immigrants learned our language and often spoke their native tongue at home or in their communities. We did not teach English as a second language in schools and immigrates took pride in learning our language. Some may remember the demolition job I did in Omaha where everyone on the crew only spoke Spanish except the foreman and myself. That was the hardest working crew I ever dealt with, but communication was a major issue. Is it to much to ask that they learn our "official" language or am I expected to learn their language. Rant over.

Reminds me of an old joke that my son once told me.

Son: Hey dad ... what do you call someone that speaks two languages ?

Dad: Heck that's easy ... they're bi lingual !

Son: Okay ... what do you call someone that speaks three languages ?

Dad: I believe that's tri lingual ?

Son: Yep.

Now ... what do you call someone that speaks only one language ?

Dad: I dunno ... I'm stumped. What do you call someone that speaks only one language ????

Son: AN AMERICAN ! :lol:

It's funny how history repeats itself though.

I'm blessed with carrying memories of life here on the island that go back to the late 1800's. My grandfather used to tell me stories of what it was like back in the day when i was little. It used to be that granite quarrying was a major industry here. Stone cutting is much art as it is science and not many had the knowledge of how to do it. Many Italians immigrated here from the old country because the trade had passed from father to son for generations across the pond.

Both of my grandfathers worked the quarries while the industry was at it's peak and had similar complaints. The people didn't speak the language and were displacing locals from their jobs. In time ... it all smoothed out. The second and third generation Italians did learn to speak the language. They married and interbred with the locals and nowadays they're just like anybody else. It turned out to be a blessing because there was such a small gene pool here to begin with.

I totally get it regardless. It bugs me to see Hispanics displacing the natives in the construction trades. We've got Eastern Europeans working the shorefront and people of color working and making good money on the lobster fishing boats. Change is upsetting.

Still ... the right thing is to ride with the tide and go with the flow. Let the measure of the man be his work ethic and not his heritage or color of his skin. It's one of the principles that our country was built upon. Give em' chance to prove themselves worthy ?

Wow I could go off on this topic, but I won't. I'll just say "Good for you Patriot for helping the challenged CITIZENS of this country" and leave it at that.

Ive been self employed for the last 12 years living 60 miles from the border. I had a landscaping biz for 10 years and now scrap. In both fields I have illegal immigrants competing with me while not paying taxes and probably on all the welfare programs I don't qualify for.

So yeah F em...Build the wall and MAGA.

I could say more but I won't.

Funny thing is around here several of the scrap yards have all hispanic workers but very few hispanic scrappers.....i think they prefer the guaranteed pay check over what I do where money may fluctuate a bit.....This is Knoxville and things were different in Nashville due to wider difference in race/gender etc

It's the same thing only different here. I was 30 years in the trades with the last 16 being self employed as a freelance carpenter. It was different when i first started out. All of the new construction here was quality stick built on site. That all changed with the mortgage crisis hit. The banks won't lend money for construction loans anymore. They're too risky. They will loan money for manufactured homes that go up quick.

Most of the manufactured homes are trucked in from Canada now. That's a huge chunk of market share lost to our neighbors up north.

I think i became complacent over the years. If someone had told me twenty years ago that my job as a carpenter could be outsourced to a foreign country ... i never would have thought such a thing possible. My bad for not having the foresight to see the next wave of change and adapt accordingly.It's completely my fault. I should have been able to deal with whatever comes my way and i failed.

Another way we're getting hit here in the Northeast is with energy. Almost all of our petroleum products including gas, diesel, propane, home heating oil ... are coming from Canada.The state's electric utility has been consolidated and sold to a Canadian company. Gotta hand it to em' ... the Canadians are doing a pretty good job.

It's the same/same with wood pellets. Mile long freight cars filled with pellets coming in from the north and barely enough to meet demand here in the states.

All in all ... it's billions and billions of dollars flowing north every year. It's making them rich and us poor.

As regards the mentally challenged: I pump gas these days. Just about anybody can do my job. The company that i work for employed three of those with lesser ability on the pumps for well over twenty years. We lost two of the three over the last few years. One was lost to mental illness and another to physical health problems. We've been trying to get them back on the job over the last month but it's a no-go. They got on social security disability. Once they're paid to stay home ... they never come back. They just stay there and live off the system.

The third of the three mentally challenged is still on the job. He's a real trooper. Always nice to the customers, never calls in sick, and works outdoors in the worst of winter weather. I'm trying to save his job but there's a lot of pressure from above to automate the company gas station. He's in his 50's now and pumping gas is all he knows. It would be really hard to re-train him for another job within the company at this age.

Anyway ... it's an ongoing fight. A change will eventually come. I'm just hoping to hold it off long enough to get us both to retirement age before we're replaced by a machine.

Just a thought ... would it be possible for Patriot to find his friend a regular job in the recycling industry somewhere ? That's one of the options i was looking into last year for our guy when it was the company announced that it was going to automate our gas station.

To Hills: The gentlemen I helped last year has lost three jobs in the last year and is on total disability right now. The lady that went this year is going to start her own house keeping service. I am her first customer. We found her a carpet shampooer, three vacuums, totes, and lots of cleaning materials. All were in good to great condition. She even found a shopping cart and and dolly that I will fix. This will be a great asset in our community during good weather because she cannot drive given her challenges. This lady is thrilled with the value she found in curbco. She also gets the joy of donating several bikes we collected to local kids. I get to enjoy this form of scrapping once a year and it is worth every minute of it.

Where I live, some of the cities in my area have "city-wide cleanup" days in the spring. Items are left on the berms, in alleys, etc. for the city crew to pickup and dispose of.

A few of us drive around and see what is being thrown out. "Curb side shopping" is what is going on. I think people throw usable items out, because they do not have the space in their house, garage, etc. I live in the country and do not have this problem. Some city residents live on a postage stamp size lot and space is lacking to store items.

Also, one of the city dumps is open here at certain times. We are allowed to go out their and scavenge some items.

One mans junk is another mans treasure.....

I feel that Scrapping/Curbco/recycling is the highest form of capitalism. Do the work, make the connections, put in the time and you will be rewarded. Just as you are keeping things out of the landfill to be used again and putting some coin in your pocket, there are items we come upon that we know someone could use to improve their life. There you are not giving a hand out but a hand up, that person still has to put in the work, and time to be successful. You just helped them along the way. That also is an American custom that we are seeing less and less of. Thank you for being you.

Kind of as an inspirational:

The special needs gent at the company i work at has been on the job for over 20 years. I think some of it had to do with the original owner of the company. He was a real deal capitalist and true conservative. Maybe not the most likeable guy, but a very fairminded man. He gave everybody a chance. Those with special needs, immigrants that struggled with the language,LGBT, difficult personalities .... you name it.

His attitude was that nobody gets fired from MY company. Maybe he was just that good. As a business manager ... he could work with just about any human resource that was available to do the job.

After 40 + years in business the owner and founder decided to retire. He sold the company out to his employees about five years ago. Admittedly ... it's a little bit like leaving the crazy people to run the asylum but the company does function. There are no guarantees in business, but the employees stand to do quite well if this works out.

This is where it gets interesting:

See ... the gent with special needs bought in with 40 other employees when the original owner sold out. Now ... this man just doesn't have the ability to comprehend how a business works. He even had to have a court appointed conservator to help him with paying his utility bills every month. He's limited in that way ... but none of that really matters.

His share is just as good as anybody else's.

" Think Forrest Gump and his shares in apple computer." ;)

If it all works out ... his share could be worth 1/4 million dollars by the time he hits retirement age. A nice little nest egg for his golden years.

RUN FORREST RUN "to da bank"

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Originally Posted by KzScrapper

Last week we had a trucker that barley spoke English, but had a green card, kill four people and cause a major incident on I-70 as he slammed into traffic doing 85 mph due to smoking his brakes coming down the grade into Denver.
https://www.9news.com/article/news/l...a-b83583910cc8

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I could see the smoke even from my house way out east when the accident first occurred.

That was awful.

I will say that I think the fact that the driver had a Green Card and spoke very little English had no bearing on the accident.

The trucking company is the most at fault and has had many more safety issues than this, it comes from being cheap and hiring cheap un-skilled labor and not being willing to spend the $$ and time to test and/or train drivers or it could be that the truck should not have even been on the road with any driver because it needed maintenance.

I am not saying the driver isn't at fault at all but more the trucking company, and again, the driver should be able to drive a truck and speak fluent French and bad English if he is truly a driver skilled enough to be behind the wheel of a tractor-trailer.

In regards to Curbco shopping (I am still a newbie and assume that means look for scrap appliances and random metal on curbs?), price of gas is going up and the price of metal is going down around here.

In regards to the original post, that was a very nice thing to do to help someone.

I find it interesting, and a bit sad that our idea of being American hinges on the language we speak. in most countries, folks are bilingual or more. This country need not be any different. We are all human beings with the same needs, wants, desires and feelings. The words we use to express ourselves is irrelevant. Additionally, the belief that immigrants from the past all learned English expeditiously is not true. My grandparents were immigrants and those who needed to speak English learned it and those who did not need it did not learn it. My first wife's grandmother never learned more than a few words and phrases her entire life. It is the same with today's immigrants. We assume that folks cannot speak English because they choose to speak Spanish. Most the time, however, those who need to speak English can do so but choose to speak Spanish because it is more comfortable for them, just like my grandparents who spoke Yiddish.

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Originally Posted by Patriot76

I agree that they are great workers and have every right to better themselves. I just think one expectation for living in the U.S. should be to learn our language. In decades past immigrants learned our language and often spoke their native tongue at home or in their communities. We did not teach English as a second language in schools and immigrates took pride in learning our language. Some may remember the demolition job I did in Omaha where everyone on the crew only spoke Spanish except the foreman and myself. That was the hardest working crew I ever dealt with, but communication was a major issue. Is it to much to ask that they learn our "official" language or am I expected to learn their language. Rant over.

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Strictly my opinion:

I have more respect for the person pushing the shopping cart into the scrapyard than others ........ ( fill in the blank).

Arriving in this country as an Eastern European immigrant at 2 yrs. old, I am bilingual. Looking back on friends and family who also immigrated to this great country, there was a mix regarding learning the language. My parents and similar aged folk, learned English. The kids were all bilingual speaking native language at home and English outside. We also went to school and were taught.

My grandparents did not speak much English. I believe that age had something to do with this, and necessity. My grandparents spoke few English words, but were able to communicate there thoughts as rudimentary. They had no problem counting or spending money, lol.

Back than there were little government handouts. My dad said “ back home you have to roll up your shirt sleeves to your wrists. Here you have to roll up your shirt sleeves to your to your elbows.” Translation: no handouts, get a job, assimilate, earn your own way, work hard, be a productive member of society. This is The primary reason I know the value and how to scrap,repurpose, and recycle. Times were lean.

My parents fled the horrors of Hitler to find a better life for themselves and the family and they did. They did not tell us much but what we did hear, at times, was heart breaking. We came here, paying our own passage on a plane. Did not come through Ellis Island. Again no handouts and became naturalized US citizens.

Whatever people’s reasons are to come to the US, as a guest in this country, we followed the rules. Others should do so also. At 8 yrs. old, I was very proud to become a naturalized citizen and swear allegiance to my new home and country.


With that said, this is my opinion on the subject matter. It is not meant to offend anyone or any nationality. Others have different situations. I do feel strongly in saying that whomever does come here should contribute to society and not be looking for a handout.

God bless America.

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Originally Posted by btkr

...Whatever people’s reasons are to come to the US, as a guest in this country, we followed the rules. Others should do so also. At 8 yrs. old, I was very proud to become a naturalized citizen and swear allegiance to my new home and country...

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As a Libertarian I often find myself at odds with both the Democrats and Republicans. I believe in a free market, and I think the Wall will only serve to displace and distress wildlife populations and send our national debt levels to soaring heights, pushing us to the brink of an economic collapse.

That said, I do understand the fears your average blue-collar citizen has about illegal immigration and it's effects on the labor force. I don't for a second believe it's only about racism(as if Guatemalan or Mexican is a race) and fear of "brown people".

Before I got into the metal business I worked for a year and a half as a public health inspector in my county. Inspecting restaurants I saw with my own eyes the incredible amount of Hispanic men--in particular--who worked long hours and lived in dormitory-style housing situations to send as much money back home to their native country as possible. It's hard for a U.S. citizen to compete in the open market against these men while paying taxes and raising a family on U.S. soil. I can see now why roofers born and raised in America would struggle to compete against a crew of Mexicans sending the bulk of their $60 daily wage home to their families in Mexico and living 10 to an apartment to pool their resources in the meantime.

It's a tough riddle to solve and I don't have the answer. The only thing I know for sure is that the Pareto Principle has been shown to apply, generally and broadly, to the labor market as a whole. This means that, roughly speaking, 20% of workers do 80% of the work. If I can always be pushing to be in that 20% I have a really good case for why I should be able earn my fair share of the pie!

OH how I have to restrain myself from this discussion.

One thought and I will leave this alone.

Real control of the boarder wood stifle the drug/human trafficking on the Mexican/US boarder. Stopping of the drug and human trafficking would free the Mexicans citizens from the influence of the criminal gangs who run them. It would also take the money out of the crooked politicians and law enforcement officials pockets. I believe it cut way back on the tens of thousands murdered in northern Mexico each year due to the influence of these criminal activities.

Yes lets not build a wall so as to not sniffle the free movement of butterflies and other animals and continue the genocide of Mexicans that continues to take place just south of the border. There are so many other reasons why real border control is a really good idea but I promise I will not continue.

Sorry, Mike

Exactly how high can a butterfly fly?.....That would determine how tall the wall needed to be o:)

For the past 3 months I've been hanging out on another forum where anything goes. No moderators at all. I have to be very careful with my opinions and comments when I come in here. My only contribution to this thread is this. If me and my family lived in Mexico, I'd be coming across that border everyday to find work.

It's all good in theory, but i'm not entirely convinced that the wall would be all that effective. You know how people are ... throw an obstacle in their way ... they will find a way around, above, or under it. It might be a lot of money spent for something that doesn't work all that well.

In the other hand ... we might be able to turn it around and make a good thing out of it. We could save a ton of money on construction costs by hiring illegals to build it.

Get them to solve the problem for us ? :cool:

Today President Trump offered his solution for immigration. It is based on a rubric that rewards those with special skills and education. It also requires immigrants to learn English, something the national media has highlighted like it is something new. It is interesting that to become a citizen of the U.S. you have to pass an English test as well as the civics test written in English. An exemption can be granted to those who over the age of 50 who have lived in the country for at 15 years. If a person wants to reap the benefits from our country, maybe they should become a citizen.

I wasn't born in Colorado, only been here since 1975. I was born in the Midwest section of the United States of America.

I am happy for that, I like living here, but I didn't decide to be born here, I had nothing to do with where when or even how I was born.

Not a political statement. It's just a statement.

The way to stop the cartels is to stop the abject failure that we call The War on Drugs. That or Americans need to stop doing the drugs in the first place, which is really what funds these terrorist organizations south of the border in the first place. Either one of those things happening is about as likely as Scarlet Johansson walking into my office right now in nothing but a red bow and fingernail polish.

I won't go on anymore either except to say that you should really sit down to think and ask yourself whether you truly believe criminal gangs that cut off the heads of men, women and children by the bus-full are really going to just pack it up and go home because you built a %$^$&* fence...

I worked out that it would take 72 full container ships full of 40 foot containers, worth of containers standing on their ends, to build a complete wall.

I may be wrong but I believe the Germans built a wall that worked rather well. Also, what is it that separates north and south Korea??

Not saying I agree or disagree.

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Originally Posted by RagnBone

The way to stop the cartels is to stop the abject failure that we call The War on Drugs. That or Americans need to stop doing the drugs in the first place, which is really what funds these terrorist organizations south of the border in the first place. Either one of those things happening is about as likely as Scarlet Johansson walking into my office right now in nothing but a red bow and fingernail polish.

I won't go on anymore either except to say that you should really sit down to think and ask yourself whether you truly believe criminal gangs that cut off the heads of men, women and children by the bus-full are really going to just pack it up and go home because you built a %$^$&* fence...

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Totally get what you're saying. If anyone is to blame for this ... it would have to be the American consumer. The criminal gangs down south of the border would go bankrupt if consumer demand for their product dried up.

We really need to have a change of heart here. This drug problem is screwing up our quality of life. It's so destructive to our families and communities. Is it really all that hard for people to see what it's doing to us ? Is it really all that hard for people to make a choice of their own free will to not be a part of it ?

I may be naive but there are certain areas that are fairly drug free. Take the trucking industry for instance. Oil drilling industry as well. Law enforcement ? They're all subject to random drug testing.

Heroin was starting to work it's way into our area but the community pushed back. We put that as a top priority for local law enforcement to deal with, set up treatment programs for addicts, and barred those with addictions from our fishing fleet. Half of the fishing fishing boat captains are a bunch of pirates but even they could agree that there was no way they were going to tolerate a bunch of junkies on their boats. They're there to work hard and make tons of money. If any of their crew aren't promptly on the job at 3:00 A.M, with their head in the game, they're quite apt to get fired on the spot.

Anyway ... guess i've rambled on long enough. Just sayin' i think there's hope that things could be different.

We've been here as a nation before in the late 1800's & early 1900's. Hard drugs and alcohol were causing a lot of problems back then. We turned the tide in the other direction during the 1920's.

Illegal drugs will always be there. It's unlikely that we could ever completely root them out. It's really more like trimming them back from time to time so that things don't get out of hand.

Several thoughts have been presented that cause a person to reflect on the direction we might be headed. A couple of points to ponder in this discussion. When the Berlin Wall was in place the biggest abuse of drugs in
East Germany was performance enhancement drugs compliments of the government. Since it's fall the use of illicit drugs has been on the rise. Hard facts about North Korea are hard to come by. History demonstrates the same pattern as the Greeks, Romans, Mongols, and Germanic tribes all used drugs although many were not illegal. The variable in these cultures was the type of ruling government. The constant was open or closed borders. As Hills correctly point out drug use started to decline in the U.S. during the start of a movement called isolationism. These facts indicate to me that if we have controlled borders (not closed) we could start solving some of our challenges. To rephrase my belief, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

All things considered .... i'm truly on the fence with this one.

If you look at the Berlin wall ... it was really more of a heavily guarded boarder between east and west Germany. The wall was really more of a symbol of the iron curtain. The reason Berlin was favored was because it's a place that easterners could legally and safely pass to the west for work or immigration purposes. The brain drain from east to west became a problem for the Soviet state so they had to close the border. Point being: It wasn't always that way.

The east was pretty much a police state. The KGB and it's east german affiliates kept a very watchful eye on the ordinary citizen. It was more to stifle any political dissent but it would have been very effective at controlling the flow of drugs as well.

The border between north and south Korea stretches the length of the country. See ... the Korean war never really ended. It's only a truce or an armistice. An agreement was forged where both sides pulled back away from the battle lines and ceased fire. The buffer zone along the battle line stands pretty much intact to this day. That buffer zone is a dangerous place to be. It's heavily mined and patrolled. Trespassers are very well apt to get killed. Seeing as there's so little information coming out of north korea ... it's a pretty much safe bet that the people there are living under a tightly controlled totalitarian police state

Another such buffer zone exists between our base at Gitmo and the rest of the island of cuba. Cuba was not exactly a free state under the leadership of Fidel Castro.

There's the Great Wall of China. It's big with watchtowers at regular intervals and accommodations for military people. A lot of people died in construction of the wall and were used as landfill. Many of those were the intellectual class. Teachers and professors and such. People that could read and could think for themselves were a real threat to the power of the monarchy back then. Still are a threat to "the establishment" to this day.

One way of looking at this would be to say that when the walls go up, the guard towers are filled, and kill zones are established between borders .... an otherwise free people get locked inside and placed under the thumb of a police state.

An alternative to this in a free and open society would be for the citizens to regulate their own behavior. Maybe they choose to do this -or- not do that of their own free will and accord ?

Along with the freedom to choose comes the responsibility for the consequence of one's own actions ?

"Along with the freedom to choose comes the responsibility for the consequence of one's own actions ?" hills' quote.

A profound statement indeed and I broke my promise to shut up but I have followed this thread and have been impressed with generally the lack of bashing by contributors. To me this shows a mature and thoughtful group of contributors, hats off to you all.

The Berlin wall was built by the communists to keep their citizens from escaping to the west. Here we have a growing population who seems to not want to be answerable for their actions and who hold what I think may be a justification belief that no one else should not face consequences either. Hence the open borders movement gets more appearance of support. So I assume if these citizens don't feel they need to be held responsible for their actions/in-actions then why should folks from other countries.

A recent threat to deposit illegals in the sanctuary cities crying for open borders was greeted with cries from those very politicians that it was unfair. When our southern boarder states have been getting the majority of these released illegals for many years.

I think the war on drugs started with President NIxon and has proven to be ineffective but I don't have any brilliant ideas. People do what they do for some very bad reasons.

I actually do have some great ideas, not my own, that have worked well for me, LCHF, Keto, Carnivore much improved health.

73, Mike

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Originally Posted by RagnBone

The way to stop the cartels is to stop the abject failure that we call The War on Drugs. That or Americans need to stop doing the drugs in the first place, which is really what funds these terrorist organizations south of the border in the first place. Either one of those things happening is about as likely as Scarlet Johansson walking into my office right now in nothing but a red bow and fingernail polish.

I won't go on anymore either except to say that you should really sit down to think and ask yourself whether you truly believe criminal gangs that cut off the heads of men, women and children by the bus-full are really going to just pack it up and go home because you built a %$^$&* fence...

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I have considered what you refer to as a "fence". True border security will take a great deal more effort than a mere "fence".

So would as you consider what would happen IF our southern border were controlled and only what we want to cross was effectively only what did cross. This is theoretical unless it happens and can only happen if it is seriously attempted.

So what effect would that cause? I contend that south of the border the gangs would be forced to seek other routes and perhaps other businesses. For many the closure of the border would remove their income and they would move on. Undoubtedly the loss of income would force some real changes. Less money in the hands of criminals is a good thing.

The users of illicit drugs in the U.S. is of course the catililist for this drug traffic. President Nixon started the war on drugs and in my opinion seems to be a failure for all these many decades. The money spent on the war on drugs would have been better spent by the taxpayers who were forced to contribute the money.

If I knew or even had a thought worth sharing on relieving humans of drug abuse I would be shouting it.

For those who are unaware my wife of 37 years whom entered the U.S. as a refugee from Vietnam became a naturalized citizen August 2018. The process was difficult and took us a very long time to accomplish. I'm proud of her hanging in there and passing the exam.

My real question on why do folks still want to come here? Because there countries' truly suck. The U.S. should be held up as how to do it better.

In the sixth grade my teacher asked my class a question. "Why has the U.S. been so much more successful than so many much older well established countries?" I asked my teacher what the correct answer was. His response was he had no idea.

I believe I figured it out. In the U.S. you have the right to own property and control your labor freedom of movement.

My wife had visions of what the U.S. would be like prior to coming here and for those not alive during the sixties and early seventies there was a war in Vietnam. She keep hearing about all the "freedom" going on in the U.S. Years later she told me what she discovered about freedom in the U.S. she said "In America you free to succeed and fail".



I told you I've been holding back. 73, Mike

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Originally Posted by miked

In the sixth grade my teacher asked my class a question. "Why has the U.S. been so much more successful than so many much older well established countries?" I asked my teacher what the correct answer was. His response was he had no idea.

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If it's allright ... i'll take a run at this and throw out a few ideas.

The first would be that it really is a hard old world out there. It's survival of the fittest and we're the biggest, baddest, nastiest, most ruthless SOB's in the valley. This is our time to shine.

This leads into the second part:

The second part is that the fight to become number one is exhausting. The fight to maintain your position as number one is exhausting as well. There's always some healthy young upstart that's looking to knock you off the top of the hill and become number one themselves.

This leads to the third part:

(It's all about the impermanent nature of things.) We all have our day in the sun but then we get old and tired. We eventually fall by the wayside and another is born to carry on for us. The same thing applies to great nations too ! Empires rise and fall. Many of these older well established countries were the global superpowers of their day and then fell into decline. Just to name a few:

Germany ( WW1 & WW2 )
Italy ( The Roman empire )
Great Britain ( The sun never sets on the british empire. )
Russia / USSR
Portugal and Spain were once naval superpowers
Ancient Greece
Ancient China
Ancient Iran

The same will happen to the US someday. Nothing lasts forever.

OK if we are all talking politics - I will share my viewpoint, perhaps an unpopular one.

"You must love your neighbor as yourself" -Matthew 22:39
Explains why I agree with and like what Mike did to help someone.

"...man has dominated man to his harm" -Ecclesiastes 8:9
The basic undeniable history of humans - wherever they live.

"It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." -Jeremiah 10:23
Explains my stance on anything else regarding the topic of political issues.

"Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar" -Luke 20:25
I obey and respect the law, including paying my taxes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SKWrapper

OK if we are all talking politics - I will share my viewpoint, perhaps an unpopular one.

"You must love your neighbor as yourself" -Matthew 22:39
Explains why I agree with and like what Mike did to help someone.

"...man has dominated man to his harm" -Ecclesiastes 8:9
The basic undeniable history of humans - wherever they live.

"It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." -Jeremiah 10:23
Explains my stance on anything else regarding the topic of political issues.

"Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar" -Luke 20:25
I obey and respect the law, including paying my taxes.

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I think two philosophies guide my life. The boomerang effect - what goes around comes around and give back more to the earth than you take. I just responded to another thread stating that there is more scrap available than people interested in hard work. I share my knowledge with my competition. In time they will be sending the bigger jobs to me. I have not been able to work since last July and since then I have picked up three large farms, several smaller farms, two mobile homes in town that are trashed, a concrete plant that was bought out and the new owners want it gutted including about eight concrete trucks, and the community landfill. This is in addition to about six other large jobs that I have on the backburner. Networking is one of the keys in business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patriot76

I think two philosophies guide my life. The boomerang effect - what goes around comes around and give back more to the earth than you take. I just responded to another thread stating that there is more scrap available than people interested in hard work. I share my knowledge with my competition. In time they will be sending the bigger jobs to me. I have not been able to work since last July and since then I have picked up three large farms, several smaller farms, two mobile homes in town that are trashed, a concrete plant that was bought out and the new owners want it gutted including about eight concrete trucks, and the community landfill. This is in addition to about six other large jobs that I have on the backburner. Networking is one of the keys in business.

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What has to be done to concrete truck to be able to scrap it.....seems would be alot of "extra" weight there.....do they account for that or do you have to disassemble