U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
This page is hard to wrap your head around
Look at the Dollar to ( gold sliver copper ETC ) Ratio as compared to 1913
on the far right side
Printable View
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
This page is hard to wrap your head around
Look at the Dollar to ( gold sliver copper ETC ) Ratio as compared to 1913
on the far right side
It's a lot of information to take in all at once.
In another way it's simple and easy to understand common sense. The buying power of the dollar is devalued as you put more and more money out in circulation. It takes more money to buy the same thing.
This Friday came around and when you got your paycheck you walked out of the grocery store with five bags of groceries.
A year from now you might only walk out with four bags of groceries. Your weekly paycheck won't buy as much.
Lol ... i must be old cause i can remember when you could get a bottle of Coca Cola out of the vending machine for a nickel.:-o
Not quite sure what they're driving at with the dollar to gold ratio. They're listing gold as being 8,133.00$/oz. The current spot price is about 1.328.00 USD/oz. Something is a bit cattywampus there.
The implication is buying power .
It appears the dollar is inflated but not hyperinflation
if the dollar collapses and silver retains that value
I'd assume milk would be $10 a gallon
The price of gold and silver was controlled by the government until the 1970's ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperHeadAKA
http://jamesjpn.net/wp-content/uploa...rice-graph.jpg
I believe i understand ....
As the story goes the dollar was 100% backed by gold way back when. I think it was sometime around the Roosevelt administration that they gradually began to de-couple the value of the dollar from gold. They completed the process sometime during the Nixon administration.
This part makes sense. In order to expand the size of your economy you have to expand the money supply. If the monetary unit is tied to physical gold it's limited to the amount of gold you have on hand to back it up.
Once we were unchained from gold we could expand the money supply as much as needed.
In a weird way this applies to the debt clock too ! See ... as we expand the money supply it devalues the dollar AND devalues the debt. We could run the debt up to 100 trillion dollars and it wouldn't be a problem as long as we devalued the dollar accordingly. Neat trick huh ?
The government of Zimbabwe inflated their currency by one million percent a number of years back thus cancelling their national debt.
There was a huge cost in human terms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt15F21jpN8
Something similar is happening here. Our standard of living has been declining. The moderately wealthy have been driven down into the middle class. The middle class has been driven down into the working class. The working class folks have been driven into the dust. It's brutal ....:(
I think that if people understood there might be a chance to turn things around. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.Every time they increase the debt -or- inflate the money supply to compensate it comes out of your hide. Doesn't matter if you're rich or poor cause we're all affected by it.
Germany had a huge hyperinflation issue after World War 1 ... As far as I am aware, Venezuela has the worst inflation issues at the moment ...
https://robertsworldmoney.files.word...2/08/child.jpg
Well we all know this . We need money to buy things and live
I see what I make does not go as far .
Yet scrapping has taught me reality , sure I liked CU at $2.75 #
or Mix @ $275.00 GT & the list goes on
I am still grateful I can get $1.57 # for CU or $120 per GT for mix .
I have learned we all are in charge of our ultimate finical health
from age 23 to now (I am 57 ) $500 per month investments in Gold , Silver .some stocks
would of been Key & I'd be well off
I had the ability and then some !!!
But no I wanted - cars - toys - vacation - what ever was in my head I got
I ran the gravy train with no worry of the future . So thats me .
So scrap taught me a truth of value ( real value ) that lets you see the truth of
inflation and deflation .
A pound of copper now will be a pound of copper next week , but money value ??
Any way 100% of scrap recycling I do is free find wile I go about normal trips of life
so no matter what they pay it's kinda like 90 % pure profit & depending on how you
see the gathering and driving to yard and finding more each way the other percent is
kinda work but not
( it's time ) time is not forever.
I've sold enough copper in my life ,
if it's ever $20 #
I'll say I remember when i was selling each week 100#
If only I knew .
Life is hard to win .
I work to live ,
I sell scrap to survive and invest .
Wile I visually messed my life with scrap (inventory)
I bless the enlightenment .
About the same age here. The way i figure it ... i probably don't have much more than twenty years left. For all i know it could be a whole lot less. You can always make more money but you can't make more time.
It makes the most sense to spend what time you do have left wisely.
When i'm on the job it's about making money so the sensible choice is to do the thing that pays the most.
When i'm off the job it's about doing the things that i find enjoyment in and living life to the fullest. Scrapping for me is just a hobby. The pay is pitiful but it's fun and relaxing and i learn new things all the time.
What value can you put on gaining new knowledge and more skills ? I dunno ... sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
When you look at the debt clock it's plain to see there's a problem. JMHO but i think the folks running the show have lost their minds to think that what they're doing will ever work. No doubt, it will all work out just the way it's supposed to.
There's no point in worrying about things that well beyond your control. If it all goes sideways then it all goes sideways.
Life goes on. :)
They can't be broke, they still have a printing press!
It's so true , Some times daily life feels like it will be forever .Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappah
The final rest will be forever.
Some times I wonder if all our words and thoughts on these post
will be around for generations to come .
Gotta figure if the Internet grows exponential all information will be put some place
categorized for future research .
100 years from now some high school kid will do a school report
on the scrap gold rush of 2008
Venezuela no longer has enough hard currency to pay for the paper stock to print their funny money. So in their case they are broke. Last time I was there was 2002. Almost everyone we knew long has left the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nces2
Venezuela, Germany, Zimbabwe, and a lot of other places. Things aren't great in France, Greece, and Spain right now. We had our own Great Depression of the 1930's. Money was really hard to come by back then.
The thing is that most people are entirely dependent on the cash economy for their daily needs. That's especially so for people living in the city. They go work their job and use the money they've earned to buy everything they need to live.
In a way it's like being trapped in a cage. See .... the government takes a portion of your earnings in taxes. You've got no say over how much they take. If they take a small portion it's not so bad. When they take bigger and bigger portions you're left with less and less to live on.
That's what sucks. See ... currency inflation is an indirect hidden tax. If you want Obamacare -or- a powerful military all these things have to be paid for. The growing national debt has to be paid as well. It's coming out of your pocket and it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor.
When it gets to the point that they're taking more than half of what you make then you become a slave to the system.
Some people think that's the way it should be. They feel that most of what you make should go to the government.
It's something to think about .....
What do you think is right ? How much is too much ?
If we can stop using oil, most of this mess would just disappear.
For whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
Yep!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
No oil means no trains or trucks. No ocean vessels carrying cargo. About 2/3 of electrical power shut off. Cities would die off in days or weeks. Politicians wouldn't have anybody to pander to and politics would become local, where you could beat the crap out of them when they do something stupid. That alone would solve most of today's mess. However scrap would be everywhere and worthless and unless you are self sufficient you aren't going to enjoy the new normal. But, you are right, "most of this mess would just disappear".
Starbits
Of the 7.4 billion people on this planet right now, I believe over 6.4 billion would die of starvation or war if the flow of oil stopped ...Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
The main problem is that we're living well beyond our means. It's costing somewhere around 1.5 trillion to run the Federal government every year. We take in about half of that in tax revenues. We're having to borrow the other half. That's why the debt clock is spinning up as fast as it is.
It's just common sense that we can't live that way.
It really doesn't matter if it's more social programs or a shiny new battleship ... the money just isn't there to pay for it. We can't even afford what we've already got.
The hard part is that you're going to run into problems whenever you get a mixed group of people in congress. They go into a room and try to work out some kind of budget but they can't agree on anything. You sure as hell don't want to cut old lady McFarland's social security check. On the other hand it is a big bad world out there. There are more than a few Hitler's and Stalins running around. If you've got a strong military it discourages them from getting ideas in their head. If you're perceived as weak they won't hesitate to beat you up and steal your lunch money.
~There's no easy fix for this.~
The only thing i can think of is for everyone at the table to agree to set their differences aside for awhile. Take another run at it and work out a ten year plan to bring us even up again.
They can always go back to bickering over how to spend the money once we have some money to spend. ;)
They say 90% would die innthe first year if just the power went out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RLS0812Of the 7.4 billion people on this planet right now, I believe over 6.4 billion would die of starvation or war if the flow of oil stopped ...Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
False.Quote:
Originally Posted by starbits
Coal and natural gas produce 2/3 of the power in the US. Liquid petroleum generates 1%.
Yes, but what do the people who maintain these coal mines or natural gas stations drive to get to work?Quote:
Originally Posted by EDC76
What does their equipment run off?
Stop using oil would be the worst thing that could happen.
What gives me a good laugh is these yuppie do-gooders who think their electric cars are "saving the planet". What charges those POS electric vehicles??? COAL!!!
It varies here in the Northeast. A lot of our electricity is produced by hydroelectric dams. Some is nuclear energy and they're started putting up offshore wind turbines. There's a bit of solar here and there. We had a bio-mass plant in the area but that shut down a few years ago after the paper mill closed.
Not much for natural gas & coal in this area. That's the sensible choice for parts of the country where they have coal mines nearby.
In a way I can see what H.G. was driving at. It's not so much oil that's the problem but IMPORTED oil. I'm sure most of the old timers here can still remember the gas lines during the Arab Oil Embargo of the 1970's. The arabs got pissed off over something and OPEC cut off our oil supplies. That drove energy costs up and triggered the economic crisis of the late 70's & early 80's.
They turned around and screwed us over again after we invaded Afghanistan & Iraq. Gasoline & diesel went from around a 1.00 USD a gallon up to around 3.85 USD / gal. That triggered consumer price inflation and the recession that hit over the winter of 2007-2008.
Like anything else there were winners and losers. Along with high energy prices came high scrap prices. When gas & diesel dropped the bottom dropped out of the scrap market and a lot of the scrap yards were forced out of business. Guys that were doing steel full time and making a living at it had to step back ask themselves if it was still worth doing. Operating costs were high and after steel prices dropped there really wasn't much meat left on the bone anymore.
~ It's all interconnected. ~
We're dependent on imported oil for about 1/4 of what we use. That's millions and millions of barrels a day. Basically, what it comes down to, is that if we start getting cocky and throwing our military weight around our neighbors in the world can give us a good spanking by screwing up our economy. We're vulnerable that way.
The other thing is that it's a lot of money leaving our economy. Other parts of the world are getting rich off oil sales and we're not as well off as we once were.
Wind and solar can power those electric vehicles just as well as coal or nuclear enegry. Those dinosaurs are killing the planet.
I suppose that the only reason you stopped burning insulation off of wire is because you were told not to?
As far as the mess disappearing. Look at the defense budget. It should probably be renamed the "lets ensure our war profit" budget.
Prohibition was enacted by Standard Oil to ensure oil profits.
Hemp was made illegal by the same interests because Ford was manufacturing cars that ran on bio-diesel.
So yeah, this mess wouldn't exist if we could end our thirst for oil.
How much more destruction are you willing to endure?
Has anyone discussed the issues of unreliable power production, or the fact there is no way to ( energy efficiently ) store it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
Australia has cut it's use of wind and solar due to how much damage it has caused it's grid !
In the US, if you account for day/night cycles, time of the year, clouds, weather, and humidity, you'd roughly need to cover 68% of the landmass with solar panels ... giving current wind generation statistics, you'd roughly need about 26,000,000 turbines ( each requiring about 100 acres to be cleared of trees, to efficiently operate ).
There's no single magic bullet to cure all of our energy problems. Those who believe that there is should step up and put their beliefs into practice in the real world.
~ Talk is cheap ... action is precious ~ ;)
Our family has reduced our (imported) fuel oil use from around 1,200 gallons per year down to about 150 gallons per year by switching to locally available renewable energy resources. In the past year we reduced our electric use about 20% by switching over to LED lighting.
It's A LOT of hard manual labor but it saves money and addresses some of the other problems we've been talking about. Switching over to energy efficient appliances means that new power plants don't need to be built. It reduces the load on the ones that are already here and they pollute less.
The thing is that it's all situational. What works best in one part of the country might not work in another. The Northern states use a lot of energy for keeping their homes warm in the winter. The Southern states use a lot of energy for cooling in the summer so their needs are different.
From what i've seen solar hot water works well just about everywhere. Half the domestic energy needs for a family of four are for hot water. For some reason we really haven't embraced it here in the U.S. It's probably the initial cost. The best figures i've got for Australia say that about half the homes heat their water with the sun but it's a different situation there. It works out to be cheaper to pay the up front cost than buy for other forms of energy.
Electricity from solar and wind has had some time to develop but it doesn't really work that well. Hard to say .... it might be one of those things where it seemed like a good idea at the time but it never really panned out. There might be something more sensible come along in the future.
Well ... let's stop an noodle it through for a moment. We have a large defense budget and i guess you could say that we are the number one global military superpower.Quote:
Originally Posted by HipoGear
Okay ... the next question is what are we doing with our military ?
As it stands right now we're in the role of acting as the global police force. We're protecting not only ourselves but many other nations as well.
Take Australia for instance: They've done a pretty good job of keeping a balanced budget. Their government also provides a lot of services to it's citizens. It would be fair to say that they have a Socialist economic system. There really ain't no such thing as a free lunch. All of those services have to be paid for but the question is .... who is footing the bill ?
First off ... it's the citizens. Taxes are fairly high there. They take a good chunk of what you make every week.
Secondly ... They've been selling off their natural resources to the Chinese. The Chinese need those vital resources to keep their manufacturing base in production. In the real world you sometimes have to take vitally important natural resources from your neighbor by force if your survival depends on it.
Thirdly ... consider the global projection of American military power abroad. The Australian government is so heavily invested in it's social programs that it's military isn't capable of defending itself from bullies that would invade their country and take their stuff. We just re-ratified our treaty with their government to maintain AMERICAN military bases on their soil.
They're kinda riding on our dime aren't they ?
They've got a fairly balanced budget and ours is a mess.
What's the right thing to do here ?