"Partnership"

Okay guys I am at school right now so I am going to type this in bursts, Not in one big rant.
I've been running with my "partner now for almost 3 years. I am 16 he is 18. I mainly do auctions and some craigslist finds. We haven't really go back into CurbCo since school started back up. I find that I store all the "Take apart Stuff" at my house. Me and my dad disassemble it. Its our bonding time if you will. Well Here's the thing all my so called "Partner" does is go to the auction maybe load a couple things and then he is done. I do 80% of the work. All he does is ***** about the stuff in his yard and then wants me to clean it up. Its like screw off I have enough sheet in my garage to take care of. You cant get your lazy ass off the couch and do it. After all this we still split it 50/50

We use his dads old car hauler. So I guess thats why he thinks its okay. So I think I am going to buy my own trailer and break away and leave his ass in the dust. I don't to ruin a friendship but this is how I make my money. I don't have an easy job like all the other kids, I work and I am **** proud of it.

And I don't mean to come off selfish but really. Right now I have about 1000 dollars of non-ferrous in my garage that me and my dad took apart. So your telling me its right for him to just waltz in and take half.

You are ahead of the game JN. You learned "The partner lesson" at age 16.

I am just trying to focus my energy on getting a cheap trailer. I should have bought the one at an auction. It was a 16 foot enclosed channel trailer with a 7.3 diesel motor and trans sitting on it. Sold for $625

You should cut it off right now, you could use that $1000 to purchase a trailer and get going yourself. If the money from it isn't rightfully his than its ok for you to take it in and take the $. An alternative would be saying either you leave, or you can work for 15-25% earnings, and you'll give him more when he does more.

I mean he has his days but really, All the stuff came from auctions that he paid half for...... So I can't take it. I have enough saved up that I can get a trailer. I am going to focus on cleaning the garage and getting a trailer this winter. But if he doesn't shape up I am going to dump that load of Non-ferrous off and split. He doesn't realize that without me we wouldn't be making close to what we are. The one thing that does roll across my mind is that he would be competition then.

Its awesome to see another kid out there like me! I thought i was the only one..

I was lucky to not start a partnership with anyone, so i haven't experienced that yet. I'd say that's a smart move to ditch your friend. 50/50 for practically doing nothing is not worth it at all. Take your dad curb co picking with you instead! That's your real partner, your dad man. I wish I could say the same, but I am the only supporter in the family of scraping which is why i do my operations sadly alone.

Sure he might be your competition, but you gotta learn around it. Get out earlier before him, change your route you use to take with him, etc. Its amazing how much more you can pick up just going out a half hour earlier / changing up your routes. Eventually his laziness will get to him, he wont tear down stuff, and when he turns items in, he'll brake even. Then he will see its not worth it, and quit entirely. Then you get your neighborhoods back

Trailers are selling good on CL right now because people want to make room and they dont use trailers in the wintertime.. Or you could find a cheap trailer from Harbor Freight.. idk their reliability, but they fold away when u need to store them.

Live close to Erie, PA by chance? lf you need a partner id help

Cheers

It's sad to hear people or friends that become business partners end up splitting. Either one becomes lazy, obsessive, money hungry, etc.. and puts a strain on not only the business relationship but any external relationship. If I were you, I would straight up tell him how it is. Another problem that eventally surfaces is lack of communication for whatever reason. If he doesn't see things your way or doesn't want to change or comes up with some other excuse or starts an argument over it, I'd end that relationship before it gets worse. I've been fortuate enough that my wife is my scraping parter. We've been married for five years and when I told her I wanted to get into scrapping electronics, she said she wanted to get into it also because it was something we could do together. We then brought in her brother, so now she handles the financial end of things while her brother and I go out to find the stuff, bring it back, scrap it out, and sell it.

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Originally Posted by pjost

You are ahead of the game JN. You learned "The partner lesson" at age 16.

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YUP!
Jn.. it is a sad statement to make but for some reason this business brings out the loafers, scammers and D-bags. I fell victim to it early in my car scrapping endeavor.. I wised up QUICKLY! I run my own rig, on my own time, my own dime.. and I get to keep all of it.
Do a search on the forum about "partnerships" and you'll get an eye full!

The only time I am in a "Partnership" is with my friend and that was really before I had my truck. The only time I use him now is when I need to move something big (Like a car) or heavy (Like a 400 LB copy machine), need a second truck, or I need to pull a trailer because my truck doesn't have a hitch yet. He's 6' 5" so it's nice to have him around considering I'm 5' 7". I only hire him once in a blue moon and we are good friends so we split it 50/50 after expenses, and he doesn't scrap so he's not competition. I will never go into a partnership with anyone full time because I like having complete control over my business, and I will only hire people.

My .02...

Dont lose a friendship over it... especially one that sounds like it has been around for years. Also, if your both scrappers independently if gives you something major in common. Dont lose the friend..but also dont bend over backwards for him.

If you have enough room to store 1,000 worth of scrap I say go rent a U-haul for the day and bring it all in then use that money to get a cheap truck. Once you get that first hauler the sky is the limit =D

I have a truck. Bought her before I got my license. 2002 GMC 2500HD W/T she is a pig, but boy does she pull. I could run a truck but running to a auction thats 50 miles away I NEED a trailer because 70% of the time we will load it full.

Honor the split you have in effect for the material you already have(I think you've already said you would).

Go independent and keep him as a friend and partner up on occasion as needed. This will require you getting the equipment to go independent, again something you have mentioned.

I avoid partnerships because at least one of the partners believes he does more work than the other. I have never heard of a partner who thought he did less work or contributed less to the partnership.

A quote I have heard Dave Ramsey state "The only ship that won't float is a partnership".

Problems in partnerships are universal not especially in the scrap business. I admire your work ethic at your age given what is taught in our government shools and in the media.

Best of luck, Mike

I already feel more motivated after thinking about this. I am going to talk to my friend who sweeps at a body shop and see if I can get a in there with there scrap.

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Originally Posted by logansryche

It's sad to hear people or friends that become business partners end up splitting. Either one becomes lazy, obsessive, money hungry, etc.. and puts a strain on not only the business relationship but any external relationship.

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And I would say I am obsessive. Scrapping is my obession. It has to be done right and done efficiently otherwise I will not take part of it.

Partnerships have never worked for me. I ended up having a falling out 1200 miles from home. I came this close to buying a car there so I wouldn't have to ride back with him. My finances didn't allow, though. It was a long, long trip back.

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You have a good truck, some space, and a man who will care (Your father). Find a cheap trailer, and get to it! You won't look back! As for competition, there will always be competitors. Do your thing as well as you can, and the rest will fall into place.

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Originally Posted by JnJunk

And I would say I am obsessive. Scrapping is my obession. It has to be done right and done efficiently otherwise I will not take part of it.

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I concur, hope everythig works out for you.

Speaking of being lazy I can do that all on my own!!!!

Here's a possibly worthless idea. But you never know.

People thrive off of competition. It's in most of our nature. If you have the drive to succeed on your own, you compete with yourself and the world around you every single day, by choice. Challenge your "partner" to a 2 week stint of working separately to see who can make the most cash. Make the loser pay the winner $20 or $50 or whatever. Then if you smoke him, you keep all of what you did, plus a few bucks of his, and it might open his eyes a little too.

The thing is, JnJunks partner is paying in %50 of the money needed to buy the metal in the first place.
Then hes scrapping down the nonferrous and supplying the vehicle & trailer to take the metal to the yard.

Theres nothing stopping the partner from buying all the metal and getting it to the yard easy like, and keeping %100.

I don't have a vehicle to shift the metal to the yard, but I organise someone else to do it with their vehicle.
I pay well for that service. It costs a LOT of money to buy & maintain a vehicle, plus the great trailer...
For something thats only 20 blocks away I pay nz$20. Plus a bonus, last time it was a $10 extra, as I got more than I expected. So, $30 for that trip of 40 odd city blocks. Inc his time as driver.

Well thats a great service doing that. And storing the Ferrous Iron.... And the 50% $ investment of his.
When you started scrapping, could you have bankrolled the whole deal yourself? Transport included?


Oh, its impressive you have your own pickup @ your age too.

I dunno how you could do better in the short run. If both of you had not got together I'd expect you never would have gotten into scrapmetal in the first place.
I have no real answer to your question. But id like to know what the vehicle owner gets for his input & overheads.
Your Father... well thats saved you a bunch of time and effort, but, its only saved your time. Ie, work out what your Father should get out of your 1/2......

And what $% is the ferrous compaired to nonferrous and hows the Ferrous stored and how much is there of it?

My deal, I get scrap from a guy, I scrap it all down and keep the nonferrous and dispose of the rubbish that I generate.
All the Ferrous metal I clean down too, then I return it to him. Plus, I give him all the Ferrous that I get, %100 of it. Even if it does not come from his scrapmetal......
Thats covers the amount of 'weight' that I remove from his scrap pile.

I pay all of my overheads, tools, time, storage etc etc. But I get %100 of the Nonferrous I find except if its something he can 'use' and sell for more than scrap value, but I don't 'handle' it, I just put it aside in a safe place for him.

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Originally Posted by JnJunk

And I don't mean to come off selfish but really. Right now I have about 1000 dollars of non-ferrous in my garage that me and my dad took apart. So your telling me its right for him to just waltz in and take half.

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He did pay for half of that $1000 worth of scrap though, so he does own 1/2 of it.
So you own $500 worth of nonferrous.
And Im guessing he sorted out the transport (vehicle and trailer and driver, and overheads, and driver) to get to the auction and to get the scrap back from the auction to his and your houses.
Then, the cleaned down scrap to the scrapmetal buyers, and back home. Thats 4, maybe 5 or 6 trips, with a big trailer and suitable towing vehicle, and the driver/owner and overheads.

What, basicly, was 'the deal' in the first place?

Actually I started the whole scrap deal from a bag of aluminum cans. The only reason he got involved was because of the use of the trailer. I know for a fact I could handle what we have. I am right now. I handle all the non ferrous and 70% of the ferrous transport to the yard. I plan to buy a trailer and get my dad involved more than my partner. Right know we are waiting out the price drop and storing to get through the winter. And to the remark above about the "Challenge" I know I could smoke him because I know what I am doing. His way of taking things apart is a 10lb sledge. And if that doesn't do it comes down to me.

It seems, you are both making money from scrapmetal, in different ways.

You are 'adding value' to the scrapmetal because of how you break it down. Thats what I do too.
Since you are doing that, and handling most of the transport (how do you work that out $ wise?).

Yup, you are moving away from needing another person and covering it yourself.
Its not his fault, you are just more 'into it' than he is.

Quick question. You said he has material bought with both your money sitting in his yard. How much do you think he has at his place? Over or under 1000 dollars worth? I hope you see where I am going with this. Do it on your own your way. 16 and already having problems. What's going to change the partner?

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Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing

Quick question. You said he has material bought with both your money sitting in his yard. How much do you think he has at his place? Over or under 1000 dollars worth? I hope you see where I am going with this. Do it on your own your way. 16 and already having problems. What's going to change the partner?

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Under. I know though there is about 7 sump pumps hiding around their somewhere :p

Tell him this you are done being partners with him and ask him how much to buy out his part. If he owns trailer maybe try to include in the deal? The only way u could end that bad for yourself is if he wants more than half. Than state you will only give him half.

just wanted to say that around here, the driver always gets half. even if he didn't add one thing to load. take everything in and split it. that way he can never say he got ripped off

Well my post in this thread vanished..must be cause..I'm successful with a partner.

:)

Maybe someone else has a copy of it, but my posts are custom I couldn't recreate one if I tried.

LOL

Sirscrapalot - Still unique like a snowflake.

I see alot of people here slamming partnerships. I think that is a little harsh. You must consider the parameters of the partnership ahead of time or modify the relationship to make it worth the time to both of you. A partnership is TWO people working together to help one another. I have a friend and we split a shop/storage. I do my work, he does his work. If he needs help, I help him and get paid. If I need help. he helps me and gets paid. It is a much more floating relationship other than the agreement on the share paid for on the shop. In my opinion, an ongoing, never ending 50/50 split on income is a little unreasonable, but there still may be a compromise that benefits you both. Perhaps a job that would be better worked with two could be split, but ongoing scrapping could be handled by each on their own without creating any ill will.

Hey..another with a working partnership.

Good for you T2.

Welcome to what is a small club from what I gather.

Huzzah we're growing.

See people? Not all partnerships turn into the ex-wife from hell. ;)

Sirscrapalot - Burn me once, shame on me. Burn me twice..shame on you. Burn me three times an I"ll punch you in the nose. - Inspired by "Punch'm in the face!" Hypo.

I think the problems with most partners are caused by feelings of resentment when one feels they are doing a majority of the work .
This seems to be the case here . The op feels like he is selling himself short . What he needs to understand is that he would only have half of what he has if he was not receiving the financial support from his partner . That and the trailer seem to be the only thing tying him to this agreement . Most partnerships end because one half feels they could do more alone . I suggest splitting the current load and everything that was paid for and keeping the friendship . In a few months you will see for yourself what works best for you . I also think it's great you work with your dad . Explain to your friend that you want to get him more involved and you could still get his help if a larger job requiring a trailer comes into play before you have one of your own .

Anyone looking to partner up has to set the expectations straight out of the gate to avoid any future problems . I prefer working alone unless a job calls for help , then I get to choose who I work with and pay them accordingly . I have friends who I help out that treat me the same . I guess what I'm trying to say is setting the expectation makes all the difference and no amount of scrap is worth a good friendship . Good luck and I hope it works out !

I have had a partner in my painting business for over 10 years. It's by far the best move I made. We both bring different skill sets to the table. However, even though we are brother in-laws we have a legally binding agreement that defines each of our roles in the company. Hand shakes are a great and novel idea, but when comes to business "Get it in writing". Cut through and questions about who does what. Being able to take off and relax and know my business is in good hands is priceless.

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Originally Posted by Metalbestos

I think the problems with most partners are caused by feelings of resentment when one feels they are doing a majority of the work .
This seems to be the case here . The op feels like he is selling himself short . What he needs to understand is that he would only have half of what he has if he was not receiving the financial support from his partner . That and the trailer seem to be the only thing tying him to this agreement . Most partnerships end because one half feels they could do more alone.

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I've tried the splitting thing I finish my load and then I just have to take his and finish it. Whenever he is around I feel like he just slows me down. Things would be better if I could just expand and work my way.

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Originally Posted by JnJunk

I've tried the splitting thing I finish my load and then I just have to take his and finish it. Whenever he is around I feel like he just slows me down. Things would be better if I could just expand and work my way.

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Sounds like nothing is stopping you but hesitation. Find a way to part where your both satisfied and then move on! You seem like a hard worker, so even if you take a little bit of loss it won't take you long to recoup it. Communication is the key to a successful partnership, without it it's doomed to fail. Good luck! Keep scrapping!!

My opinion is break off from him or make it so what ever u take apart u get the money for this way you get what u deserve

Always better to be ur own boss i started in 07 selling 2 cats from a bronco and havent looked back since any? Feel free to hit me up

I watched many friends and family with a partnership go down in flames over seemingly minor disagreements that took on a life of their own. Had the details been worked out in writing ahead of time things likely would have worked out. Time to move on in a way that will salvage your friendship, however in a discreet way try to find out what he is spending gas, vehicle maintenance, insurance etc..... That way you know exactly what you will be facing for costs when he is no longer a partner.

Seriously consider hiring a helper when needed for big projects. Upfront make it perfectly clear on what you expect, what defines your ideas of a job well done , and what you will pay. I will never "partner" with a friend or family member, yet i will help them out for fair agreed upon pay. No surprises and we all win.

Lastly, the time you get "working" with your dad is worth more than anything you scrap.

When my partner and I started our company, it was very important that was signed a contract. We went the legitimate route right away (we filed as equal members of an LLC). Especially because we were friends prior to the venture, it was important that we lay everything out in case the business went sour it wouldn't wreck our friendship. In the contract, we laid out exactly who would do what. Who would pay for start up expenses and how much we would be compensated. The entire document is about 20 pages long but it is easily the most important thing in the entire business.

Also remember that partnerships do not have to be 50/50. If you feel you are doing 75% of the work, speak with him and reevaluate. Perhaps you should take 75% of the cut and he can take 25%. If he has some benefit in your business, it is important to have open communication with him. And if you really feel it is not beneficial to you and that you can operate on your own, by all means do so. Just be modest about it and tell him without being nasty.

Seems like his partnership is a bit smaller scale than yours, so I don't think he would need all that paperwork until it got to the point where they are owning things together, or dealing with lots of repeat business/ material. a partnership isn't all that bad, if you do it right you can make it work. If not learn from your mistakes and move on, me myself though prefer to work solo or be the boss, giving someone a 50:50 say in what you do could cause some issues.