Are Lower Prices Of Scrap Better Or Worse???

After twenty plus years in the Scrap Game I would say Lower is Better,now after your smirking stops let me give you my take,when I started #2copper was around fifty cents a pound,aluminum .20-.25 wire was .30 that's what I remember,but I also remember that people would leave there scrap / ac units in the back of there shops for me and you know what nobody touched them, almost every day when I went in to work a pile of scrap was left there in front of my door, and that was in Brooklyn New York we never paid for anything.the number of Junkers /Scrapers in my area you could count on one hand,and we all made real good money.We laughed all the way to the mattresses,no banks.I know that times are tough now and these jerks in Washington are not making it any easier on us,people have to eat and will do what ever they can to feed there family's.The lower the prices go the fewer scrapers will be out there,and the better it will be for those that remain,that's my opinion What's Yours??

Good point! When I started prices were like you speak of and very few scrappers around. A couple weeks ago I was stuck at a yard for 2 hours or so waiting for a tow truck. I probable saw 100+ people come in. And not the scrappers you would expect. A 30 something y/o soccer mom in a mini van. Teenagers on bicycles, a restaurant unloading food cans ect ect. When I started everyone knew each other by name, now guys at the yard don't even look you in the eyes. I like the prices now but I guess it's a give and take. Prices up= more scrappers and less scrap. Prices down= less scrappers more scrap. I always think about those 500lb loads of copper wishing I had them now!

I think that you're right to a certain extent. I've noticed a lot less scrappers around, which has been great for me. However, there comes a point where certain things aren't worth even dealing with anymore because of low prices. For example, I can't afford to ship in my Ni-based batteries because the price is a lot lower than it was, and shipping now costs more than they're worth.

That brings me to another point, which is the cost of everything else. Gas has been going down a bit lately, but not much. Low prices are fine if the cost of other expenses are low. However, expense prices have stayed about the same while metals prices have dropped, which means less of a profit margin. I just thought I'd point that out

I like it when scraps up. Doesnt make a difference up here though. Prices up, lots of scrappers. Prices down, still lots of scrappers, fighting for the same scrap, tryin to make a buck. I like the higher prices. I buy cars and with scrap at what it is now, i cant offer much and people say no thanks. When scraps up, i can pay 3-400 for a car. And people seem to be ok with gettin that amount.

I will take prices in the upper ranges if I can get them. I'll defend my stance:
I will use cars as my example.
Back in the day people used to have to PAY to have cars hauled off because they were just not worth anything to anyone to be worth the hassle- except junk yards and pull-a-part type places.

So say we go back to the days of steel being at $80/ton. Let us assume that at that ton rate.. every scrapper in my geographical area says "Forget it" and sells off their trailer. I decide to stay in because it may just keep my plate so full I can't keep up. I may get cars for FREE now, but I may still have to pay say $50-$100 for a car instead of $200-$300.

So I get a 3000 lb vehicle- take it to the yard and get $200 total on the body- I pay $50 for it- I profit $150
If ferrous and core prices also take a dive because of this pricing drop I will throw out some imaginary numbers:
Cat- Was $100.. now worth $25
Alternator was $6.96.. now worth $1
Copper wiring harness- was worth $1/lb.. now worth .30/lb (20 Lbs) $20 vs $6
AC Pump- was worth $5 bucks- now worth .90 cents
Rims- Were once worth $65.. now worth $25 bucks (I still have to pay $12 to have a set of 4 dismounted because that won't change) so I'd make $13 profit

So all total on this example I make $196 profit.
At current prices paying say $200 for the car.. I'd clear:
$100 Profit on the body
And Over $300 profit total.

I have to value my time.. my time is $ and to take say 6 hours to pull and clean wire from a car at $1/hour would make it not worth my time. A lot of things on the vehicle would no longer be worth the time to pull. I'd probably pull the battery, cut the cat and haul the rest in virtually untouched. I would have more scrap than I knew what to do with if everyone bailed out, but the amount of time and effort It would take to make the same amount of $ I make now- by working twice as long and twice as hard- seems like a fools errand, I would most likely just venture into different business areas that would prove to be worthy of my time.

Lets not forget that if every guy with a trailer hung it up around here- If I'd pay $50 for a car- a junkyard or a pull-a-part place would still pay $100, they can sit on vehicles for months or years and let them get picked over like a rotting carcass in the desert. I cannot compete with them now and I couldn't if prices took a dive into the hole. I spoke with a guy last night on a van.. guy said "Pull-A-Part offered me $580 for this van" I told him I can't compete with them, I just have to find people who don't get their pitch.. I can't beat them at auctions, I can't beat them with the General Public.. I just move onto the next one.

I agree completely. When scrap was at 80 ton, back when I first started, it seemed like I kept a lot more in my back pocket because my inputs were so much less. Eighty dollars a ton seemed better when gas was 2 sumten versus 150/Ton and 3.50 gas. Tires have went plumb dam outrageous, a 10 ply 16" tire that used to sell for around 120 is now 200 plus, oil is almost 4 bucks a qt for almost any brand of oil, and going to the parts store almost requires robbing a bank before.

I used to buy a hot beef sandwitch for .45, a coke or a candy bar or an icecream cone for a nickle too. just sayin.

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Originally Posted by olddude

I used to buy a hot beef sandwitch for .45, a coke or a candy bar or an icecream cone for a nickle too. just sayin.

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And like me guess, when I was your age billy, bread was a nickel. Lol !

Just remember when you were paying .50 for a sandwhich, an .5 for bread...

In 1950 a new house cost $8,450.00 and by 1959 was $12,400.00 More House Prices
In 1950 the average income per year was $3,210.00 and by 1959 was $5,010.00
In 1950 a gallon of gas was 18 cents and by 1959 was 25 cents
In 1950 the average cost of new car was $1,510.00 and by 1959 was $2,200.00 More Cars and Car Prices

I used the 50's cause..well..just seemed a good time frame. lol.

Anyhow..I have no thoughts on this at this moment, but keep posting ya'lls cause it's interesting seeing others take on this question.
Good thread 1956.

Edit to add : Here's the link to the site I pulled that info off of, if anyone else is interested in that kind of thing.

What Happened in the 1950s featuring News, Popular Culture, Prices and Technology

Sirscrapalot - Can't remember when bread was a nickle but remembers when gas was a buck, smokes were 2, an you could get a 6 pack for less then 7 bucks.

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Sirscrapalot - Can't remember when bread was a nickle but remembers when gas was a buck, smokes were 2, an you could get a 6 pack for less then 7 bucks.

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The gas station I worked in when I was in my early teens (pumping gas,yes) the price was .29 a gal. We pumped it, washed windows, checked oil all for .29 a gal.

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

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Sirscrapalot - Can't remember when bread was a nickle but remembers when gas was a buck, smokes were 2, an you could get a 6 pack for less then 7 bucks.

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The gas station I worked in when I was in my early teens (pumping gas,yes) the price was .29 a gal. We pumped it, washed windows, checked oil all for .29 a gal.

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My grandfather owned the last Texaco in canada, my dad worked there in the early 70s. The record for most gas in a vehicle in the history of the station, was 12 bucks... He set the record, and everyone at the station that day was circled around the pump watching. (so the story goes) Those where the days by the sounds of it.

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Originally Posted by jord0690

My grandfather owned the last Texaco in canada, my dad worked there in the early 70s. The record for most gas in a vehicle in the history of the station, was 12 bucks... He set the record, and everyone at the station that day was circled around the pump watching. (so the story goes) Those where the days by the sounds of it.

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I also remember working that same time frame - eight hour day got $22.80 ($2.85/hr). So, where are we, really:

1971 - minimum wage $2.85 & gallon of gas $0.32 or you could buy 8.9 gallons of gas for one hour minimum wage.
2013 - federal minimum wage $7.25 & gallon of gas $3.45 or 2.1 gallons of gas for one hour @ minimum wage.

So, the US dollar is worth less than a fourth of what it was 42 years ago. So, in answer to the original question, I'd have to agree that lower prices for scrap metal are "better" under the premise that lower prices for scrap would also coincide with lower prices in general and stronger buying power for the dollar. A further result would be a stronger world economy (anyone for macro-economics?). However, I'm not ready to cash in my hoard in the hopes that'll lower scrap metal prices and save the world.

I wanted to repost this tread, what comes around goes around.

I do think that as prices drop for ewaste that this will flush out some of the people and leave more for those of us that are really serious about it.

When scrap prices are down, it is time to stock pile and do maintenance on equipment. The longer they are down, the less competition and the better prepared a person will be when they rebound. So if you have the room to store metal, the ability to finance down times, and the desire to take advantage of investing in scrap, lower prices mean money in the long run.

well said patriot. Ive been storing ram carbide nickel and cell phone boards since september...carbide alot longer. Its a better investment than anything else.

Heck Ive only been on this rock for 31 years but in 2000 I remember short iron at 75 a ton and sheet at 60. However the first time I put gas in a car I owned was october 1998 and I remember the price... 97 cents. Copper pipe was about a buck and a quarter then too.

My point....this is not relative the fact is for relevance wed need short iron at about 300 to make up for inflation...the dollar is the worst investment in recent history having lost 98.5 percent of its value since .

short term low is great long term low is bad just the same for high....

I think its a mixed bag. People who dabble in scrapping to make some extra cash and/or as hobby (such as myself) would more easily quit if the higher prices weren't there. For full-timers, my impression (and maybe wrong) is that's its not only the money but its also the freedom of being your own boss and/or being able chart your own destiny (as much as one can nowadays in North America). Sooner or later if prices crap out and that's your main income, then, yeah re-evaluation of how to use your time to the best ability would have to get factored in.

Another point that's been brought up is the increased cost of living between now and "then". And indeed, except maybe in steel as Sledge as pointed out, scrap had more purchasing power then than now. I've shown these inflation calculators before (found another one this morning). A 1980 dollar (when I was in high school) would need $3 now for the same purchasing power. I put in what I made on #2 Cu the last time I took it in ($2.30 a pound) and went back to 1980 and it was worth 76 cents which is what I remember going down to the non-ferrous guy with Al cans and seeing 80 cents for copper (my memory about the year may not be exact but probably close enough).

Then again. maybe not. I just ran 80 cents in 1980 and it equals (according to this calculator) $2.43 now. If its right, then slightly more purchasing power than in 1980...

DollarTimes.com | Inflation Calculator

im probably gonna sound stupid but i think that just to get rid of the looong queues and insane amount of time it takes to drop off a load and get paid,
it would be better to have slightly lower prices

time is money
but if youre wasting over an hour for something that should take 20 mins max-forget it.
id rather have a quick n easy visit to the scrapyard & earn a bit less instead of putting up with lots of obnoxious ppl just to get a little bit more

a frustrating visit to the yard can mess up my mood BIG time

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Originally Posted by msmoorad

im probably gonna sound stupid but i think that just to get rid of the looong queues and insane amount of time it takes to drop off a load and get paid,
it would be better to have slightly lower prices

time is money
but if youre wasting over an hour for something that should take 20 mins max-forget it.
id rather have a quick n easy visit to the scrapyard & earn a bit less instead of putting up with lots of obnoxious ppl just to get a little bit more

a frustrating visit to the yard can mess up my mood BIG time

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Happiness to me is an empty truck scale when you pull in the gate.

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

Happiness to me is an empty truck scale when you pull in the gate.

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Agreed I went and sold a little copper and was the only one at the yard............I just buy and sell I am not a hoarder of anything except $100 bills they take up alot less space

I haven't noticed any less scrappers out even though prices are down but, now this time of year makes it bad because even though gas is down I'm not finding as much stuff each run.

in the year one A. D. you could buy a complete set of cloths (style of the day) head to foot for one gold coin. Today you can buy a nice set of cloths head to foot for one gold coin. Prices have not risen, money has devalued.

There are scrappers who purchase to resell (yard owners also )
so nobody wants to get stuck with the prize . If you horded you have some regret
you did not sell some items 5 months ago Such and Such.

But for me I care not - Low - High - I find it. I feel more is to be found now
price of fuel is important low fuel means I can cover more territory
But do I want to see copper go .75 # not unless fuel is $1.75 it seems to me it's just a big game
and us scrappers can just ride the wave.

Find it
Sell it
Find more
Sell

does it really matter if the copper pay out was $63 a time ago
and now it's $52 I find it Free .I don't look the gift horse in the mouth.

Regardless there are times scrap is dried out - just can't seem to find it .
if people don't buy , they don't toss out
new construction keeps the dumpsters flowing .
For sure we will know when the SHTF first .

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To bad food is so darn costly I am surprised it's not dropping since truck fuel is lower .

Prices are cyclical on all things. They go up and they go down. You have to look at long term trends. As long as I come out ahead after expenses and can pay the bills, I am happy. And just like prices, get rich quick scrappers will come and go with the cycles, so it all washes out in the end. It's a living, it's a lifestyle, it's what we do...

it's a lifestyle, Amen

started at 9AM this morning still testing equipment and listing items for sale on the net..........Oh well kinda tired but need to make some headway

Higher prices are by far better . I want the metals I'm selling to be in demand and the yards can compete with each other for my business . Anyone who says less is better does not value their time . It's simillar to those who sell online , they want to be selling the items that are in demand the ones that command the most bang for the buck .

I'm sure mike will agree I doubt he spent his day listing cassette tapes and issues of national geographic .

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Originally Posted by Metalbestos

Higher prices are by far better . I want the metals I'm selling to be in demand and the yards can compete with each other for my business . Anyone who says less is better does not value their time . It's simillar to those who sell online , they want to be selling the items that are in demand the ones that command the most bang for the buck .

I'm sure mike will agree I doubt he spent his day listing cassette tapes and issues of national geographic .

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LMFAO........Actually I get the same items over and over and I know exactly what they go for and are usually listed, sold, and shipped in less than a week..........Occasionally I get an oddball item but I will buy 100 of the same thing if I know I can move it for a profit

we all want higher, BUT at it's height (pm's) everyone and their mother would scrap their stuff...as it comes back down to a more reasonable level (in the marketplace), those people don't mess with it as much and therefore supply goes up for people that specialize in recycling such as ourselves. There is a happy medium in terms of prices vs supply...too high of price then we have to pay alot more for stuff....granted MOST of what I get I never pay for. Trust me, it is a good thing when you have some outlets where they bring it to you for free.

The stuff I DO buy...well I always factor in a 30% profit after expenses generally and I typically want that stuff flipped on Ebay on the 1st 3 day listing (ie flipped every 3-4 days)...the issue with the stuff I buy to do that is that people have REALLY begun to thing their stuff still has the value it did a few months ago....which it DOESN'T. I do ALOT of smarphones and people still think their old iphone 4 is worth $100...well with the lead up to the launch of the 6 prices dropped quickly and then once it launched it REALLY tanked...they don't even do a cursory check online to see that the 4 is selling for like $60 and I will pay cash BUT I have to make my profit...so $35 is what you get....anything less and it is not worth my time. but that is true of all sorts of stuff lately as well...computers and the rest...I spend alot of time educating people (just a little) to show them that their old P4 single core DELL is not wanted by most people and worth just a few dollars from me at best. Is what it is...

It also can be a IMO situation
I'd say the scrapper who deals with Ton's at a time wants the most he can get for the time needed to drive the Rig to the yard .
But guys like me , over all , have a pace a consistent pace , If i need put an extra 50 pounds to equal what was a month ago fine .

In general I sell batches ( if I don't get lucky with some mass weight of steel )
I hunt & go with the odds of finding a little of every thing .
450 # mix 100# AL 200 # short 25# copper some motors ,
Whats the real loss problem $10 or $12

The day we can't find is the day I'll complain

I had more people sell me ewaste this weekend than in the last two months........I paid according to ewasted new pricing structure and probably pulled a few re-sell able items out of the bunch (found a 2 TB hard drive showing only 3 days of usage) I think that might have been a mistake but they put it on the scale not me