i got SCREWWED

Today was one of those daysi could definately have lived without after doing the runs i got a call aboutfrom a lady wanting metal removed

her i saw your ad on angies list i am looking to have my fence (chainlink ) and shed (old tin) removed
no problem
maam is it already disassembled

her no

me No Problem maam (thanks burly for this) while removal is free demolition is not.

how much will it be

me $60 an hour for a crew of 2

no problem

we set up appt and are there at 11:45

at 1:37 i get this call

Jay lady says she is not paying

i talk to her on the phone she says she"s not paying it i will make enough off the metal

maam i can personally assure you there isn"t enoguh there we are insured and bonded and are legit it will not cover costs

click

so i drive to the property

BAD IDEA i tryed calmy to talk to her show proof of insurance and all i got was your making enough your making enough

i tried calling the cops for theft of service

I SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT 1 i went from a 5 to a 3 star rating on al

2 police said it"s civil have fun

and 3 my guys never got a signed work order


ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

$23 in metal = alot of aggrivation

curious how you woulkd have handled it

i would have taken it right back off my trailr and leave it there.I personally don't care for angies list. I have a profile on there but no one ever pays attention to it.she is pissed because she thought she could say "ill pay" and then didn't.this is why most jobs I get a cc up front. as long as you got proof of services rendered then you can charge then

George this was a compendium of **** ups my guys should have been more professional and had a work order signed i don"t uses cc's cash or check only

2 once it was demolished they should have gotten paid not loaded

3 once loaded That"s when they knocked the door so in others words there is no proof of the job

Well done guys i refuse to eat this one whole

To me you have two options...

1) eat it and move on. if you stew over it, it will only add to the stress you already have!

2) file the civil complaint in small claims. While this stinks on all side, you NOT doing anything, is EXACTLY what people like her count on!

3) We all go drink cold beverages out of Sir Scrapalotz cooler and go fishing! the end ;-)

Wow man... that totally sucks! Can't say I would have handled it any better. Good lesson for others to learn from though. Probably doesn't make you feel any better - but I appreciate you sharing that experience on the forum none-the-less.

Live and learn is the best you will get from this one unfortunately.

Everyone said it best, but allow me to repeat Brojer...

"2) file the civil complaint in small claims. While this stinks on all side, you NOT doing anything, is EXACTLY what people like her count on!

3) We all go drink cold beverages out of Sir Scrapalotz cooler and go fishing! the end ;-)" - Brojer!

Full article at Scrap Metal Forum: http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/day-l...#ixzz2SBhp7DD1

My Sandbar is always open, perfect for those stressful days, weeks, etc. Just bring something for the cooler, an two dog treats! ha!

Sirscrapalot - No shoes, no shirt, no problems.

I'm 70 and still cant get over the fact that almost no one's word means anything any more when, not long ago your word meant every thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Libertytow

George this was a compendium of **** ups my guys should have been more professional and had a work order signed i don"t uses cc's cash or check only

2 once it was demolished they should have gotten paid not loaded

3 once loaded That"s when they knocked the door so in others words there is no proof of the job

Well done guys i refuse to eat this one whole

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I can understand that your guys should have done things better, but if I was them, I would have taken her for her word.

Like brojer said, you need to do something. The hell with the AngiesList score...that site is a bunch of crap anyways. You let her get away with it, she will tell everyone she knows!

Regardless if you are insured or not, you quoted a price, and she verbally agreed.

Next time, simply tell the guys to dump it back into her yard.

If you dump it back in her yard, then she will call the cops on you for trashing her property. I wouldn't do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brandon

If you dump it back in her yard, then she will call the cops on you for trashing her property. I wouldn't do that.

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It would basically just get into the bs game of "he said, she said"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB

I can understand that your guys should have done things better, but if I was them, I would have taken her for her word.

Like brojer said, you need to do something. The hell with the AngiesList score...that site is a bunch of crap anyways. You let her get away with it, she will tell everyone she knows!

Regardless if you are insured or not, you quoted a price, and she verbally agreed.

Next time, simply tell the guys to dump it back into her yard.

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Verbal agreements mean nothing. Unless you both agree you had a verbal agreement in court. They will just go to court and say "they agreed to take down the fence for the price of the scrap metal"

the 2 problems i have are there is no work order signed legally i have 0 juristiction or evidence she agreed to work or a price. My guys DROPPED that ball it"s not like it was the first day the paper work is in EVERY TRUCK. i am hoping i am dodging a bullet here. live and learn but her # is now saved in my phone as "DO NOT ANSWER". it"s frustrating as hell though to pay 2 guys for 2 hours use $15 in fuel and know i am upside down.

i look at it this way though no work order she can never say i damaged her property during the removal "no work order no proof i did it. we have receipts woprkorders and estimate sheeets for exactly that reason.

I still hate the way it ended though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olddude

I'm 70 and still cant get over the fact that almost no one's word means anything any more when, not long ago your word meant every thing.

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I kind of miss the "good ole days" for that reason. I can remember one time I had my eye on this nice car at a used car lot.
I called my bank and talked to the asst. manager and told him the price of the car and he says "stop over in an hour and pick up the check".
Now they don't even know your name or care. Everything kind of revolved around a handshake. It was as good as your word.
Sniff,,,

i miss the old days of your word meaning something too the problem is if i don"t have that i don"t have anything.


That notwithstanding think about the corporate driven world we live in now people make careers over screwwwing companies out of millions

Make a stink ...no such thing as bad PR

Hey, Liberty, something you said I don't understand. WHY exactly is it you don't take credit cards?
Let me tell you the upsides:

1.) you can get a credit card reader FREE from square.com that plugs into your smart phone
2.) unlike regular merchant accounts, you don't have to pass a credit check to use the service
3.) while there IS a device that plugs in to swipe cards, you can take a card over the phone
4.) people are WAY freer with what they spend on a credit card than they are with cash. It is almost as if price is irrelevant when paying by credit

Just some thoughts.

You live and you learn. I see that you have had one hell of a week liberty. Don't worry we are in the same boat. I lost my number one guy this week to his daughter dying in a car wreck. I got a phone call yesterday saying my number two guy is going to jail for outstanding warrants in another county 2 hours away and they are coming to get him to do 45 to 90 days. One of my other guys is hurt this week and wont return till monday of next week. On top of that this rain is non stop and I am continually losing days of work to it. Today the forecast is rain rain rain and the same with the next 3 days. Its already a mud pit at work and when it rains this much it shuts down one of our burning fields because it floods it out. Well that is my rant I am gonna go work in the rain again. I am just glad I am positive even when I get frustrated on weeks like this. Here is a picture of it.

Instagram photo by @pistonescrapprocessing (pistonescrapprocessing) | Statigram

Instagram photo by @pistonescrapprocessing (pistonescrapprocessing) | Statigram

Ran into this before on removing an old dog run. Flat fee $150. Plus the metal she would handle the other trash if I bagged it.
Got done. Lady looked at me and said what fence are you talking about.
Pulled out my cell phone showed her the 2 before pictures and said you know this one.
Her next response was hold on while get you some money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Libertytow

the 2 problems i have are there is no work order signed legally i have 0 juristiction or evidence she agreed to work or a price. My guys DROPPED that ball it"s not like it was the first day the paper work is in EVERY TRUCK. i am hoping i am dodging a bullet here. live and learn but her # is now saved in my phone as "DO NOT ANSWER". it"s frustrating as hell though to pay 2 guys for 2 hours use $15 in fuel and know i am upside down.

i look at it this way though no work order she can never say i damaged her property during the removal "no work order no proof i did it. we have receipts woprkorders and estimate sheeets for exactly that reason.

I still hate the way it ended though.

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Are these the same guys that were screwing off for a week while you were down? I would say if they "dropped the ball" on this too, I would "drop" one of them to get the point across that your done with the games and BS. These guys are costing you money. Time for some tough love me thinks.

You could always make the loss come out of your guys wages since they didn't follow your rules.
If the scrap paid $22 and you had $15 in fuel then your two guys get to split the $7 that is left over for their 2 hours of wages. If you do this and make it policy, I doubt they will ever forget to get a contract/ work order signed by the customer before they start work again.

Chalk it up to lesson's learned and write up the employees for documentation purposes. If you dock them pay make sure it doesn't bring them below minimum wage cuz that will bite you in the butt down the road.

George...if he tosses the one asset he has walking away from this she will have that picked up in no time or haul it to the yard herself...big whoop.

Lol @ below minimum wage. Plus an employer can't make an employee pay for a business loss unless it can be shown the employees were trying to screw the employer. Laws do vary state to state a little but for the most part will find for the employee in these cases.

yes the employees screwed up but I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time they did it...if that's the case the time to take action against employees was the first time they did a job without paperwork. Not now.

I'm with those who say small claims court. But before you go to small claims court, make sure you're committed. Committed...like the hog at a ham & egg breakfast. (The chicken is interested, the hog is committed.)

First, file suit for money owed less the value of the fence. This addresses her story straight on. She will state that she thought the value of the metal would cover your costs. Your documents will show that it didn't.

On court date this is what you bring:

The receipt from the yard for the metal

A report from your payroll system for the moneys paid to the employees

A detailed listing of the mileages and operating costs

Do you spell out "we charge for demolition" in your Angie's listing? if yes, print that out and bring it with you

did she write a review of your services? if yes, print that out and bring it with you.

go on google maps and see if you can find a "before" photo, especially if street view. print that out and bring it.

And finally, go to the police again and request an "incident" report relating to your call. If they don't provide one, ask to report a theft. Have dates, times, dollar amounts, employee names and employee drivers license numbers. Don't ask the cops to be bill collectors -- if you had that expectation when you called them, you made it easy for them to push the turd back to your plate. You simply wish to report a theft. If the cop won't do it, ask again, and if they won't allow you to report a theft, or to get an incident report from your previous call, file a complaint against him with the State of New Jersey...

Director of the Office of Law Enforcement Professional Standards
Department of Law and Public Safety
P.O. Box 080
Trenton, NJ 08625.

If she calls you after being served, tell her you will drop the charges if she pays.

If she doesn't call you, I'm willing to bet she won't show up, at which point you hand your judgement to the sheriff.

The law provides a way, albeit time consuming, to make it right. As long as you're committed.

rhetorical question....is there ever a good scrapping story involving a chain link fence?

no different guys canned the first 2

cummins there is deffinately a SUCHY THING AS BAD PR especially as a scrapper

burly i had square i used it 3 times in 1 year but paid more than the transactions were worth i don"t do alot of retail work like this

Volvo she definately did a write up on AL

as far as the employees they have been repremanded and bascially explained this is WHY procedures exist i cannot legally dock a workers pay Ever i can however make the employee civilly neglegent and sue but in this case not worth it

i have only done that once when i truck wound up flipped 5 times judge awarded me my deductible still waiting for the judgement to kick in

When I was self-employed, I wished there was an Angie's List for customers. Too often I had to eat a couple of very expensive boards (recovering cabinetmaker) et al and smile like I liked it. Bad customers are good AND bad: 1) They're bad for you if you get bit. 2) They're good if they hire your jerk competitor, and hopefully they repeat their unrealistically expectational behavior.

mn i am sorry but that is funny you may be on to something here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KzScrapper

George...if he tosses the one asset he has walking away from this she will have that picked up in no time or haul it to the yard herself...big whoop.

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It's the principle of the thing. She is declining to keep her end of the deal, and thus breaking the contract (verbal or other wise)...there for he isn't liable to keep his end of the deal.

I agree with what he is doing in this matter, but the thing is, that if it was any other company, they most likely would leave the material there. Not everyone knows about scrapping, as everyone believes. I constantly see companies pay to dispose of their unwanted metal. They just dont care, because they get paid to haul it away.

I also agree with him for taking the money to recuperate something at least from the deal.

I am just saying, that if it was anyone else, they may or may not take it, but she would be sued and charges pressed for theft of services rendered.

However, I am sure that the only reason he isnt doing it, is because as he stated, there is no proof of it all.

i have seen alot of construction companies lose money because of how they bid and operate jobs

i put 100% of the blame on management, not the employees, its managements job to supervise their employees to make sure that the work is being done correctly

jghilino i don"T deny that management is usually responsible but the end result is i run crews for a reason with said procedures in place to prevent this kind of ending when not followede viola

you missed the point, management is always responsible not usually responsible as you put it, until you can accept that your always looking to point the blame, i am sick and tired of companies placing the blame of bad decisions on the men when it was the company that hired them in the first place, you hired them and have had problems with them in the past and yet you still keep them on, that is 2 mistakes made by management right there not to mention what else happens every day

The name of your company is liberty towing, it is not liberty towings employees.

1. why did they not walk up to the door with a clipboard when they arrived at the jobsite?
2. if no one answers the door, did they have a printout of a work order?
3. did they leave a door hanger asking the customer to reschedule or provide a CC # for billing?

i'd rather be out fuel, then fuel + wages + time they could have used serving other customers.
if it's a cash customer they need to sign upfront just for the waiver of liability, they can pay when you complete the job to their satisfaction.
this is the kind of thing that needs to be addressed in a positive manner like at a monthly company breakfast when you do other mandatory trainings, if you want to make it stick in their heads. employees and bird dogs need both discipline and rewards to be good ones, so if your going to find a reason to beat them then you need to find a reason to throw them a bone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brandon

If you dump it back in her yard, then she will call the cops on you for trashing her property. I wouldn't do that.

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Plus it's like doing free work for the guys that run across it and all they have to do is load it..I think a signed work ticket is a good idea
to protect yourself. I'm a little paranoid after running across bogus adds on CL. I do a print screen/save on the adds before going out to pick up stuff, just in case someone wanted to accuse me of theft or other shenanigans..

Get what you can from the metal. Too late to fix the other.
I don't use AL but the whole thing sound like bs to me. Why would Angie? Don't know her either.
Does Al give you a chance to respond?

Unfortunately scrappers driving all over town has cause many people to think there is big money in metal , and there is but $23 probably 240 in weight is just a tease .
To her it looked all bulky like wow ,still she must of intended to take advantage .Not much you can do, I have found when you get a bad egg move away from the situation and take your loses .Sure if it was a $5000 job removal fight the Battle .
But the A** H*** can mess your business up . leave be

ALWAYS ALWAYS GET A SIGNED CONTRACT BEFORE WORK BEGINS. Then you have something to go to court with.

I agree with many of the peopke that commented here...you have to pick yourbattle. People from a site like that can ruin your rep...but always rrspond to the comment and tell your side. Most people know there areare aholes out there.