1st one for me: buyer reports damaged goods

Sold a partially functional iMac on eBay as "for parts/broken" + "no returns". Packaged it well -- or I thought I did -- and shipped it by FedEx home delivery. Almost immediately after I get the delivery email from FedEx I also get an email from the buyer. He sends me a couple of pictures showing mostly the box and the packaging that got damaged. Also claims that the computer got damaged too: would not boot at all whereas it would partially boot when I sold it. We exchange a couple of emails and are both polite and friendly, although he does mention at some point in passing that he is planning to contact PayPal to file a claim to get a full refund. I call FedEx and initiate a claim. Then i call eBay and they tell me that if I offer a full refund, it's my right to ask him to ship it back to me first. Then it occurs to me that he did not really send me any photos of the computer itself. So I ask him for take some so that I can combine them with my own photos to show FedEx "before and after". This was on Friday night and since then I haven't heard from him. Possible that he's away for the weekend or something so I might receive something from him next week.

I prefer to offer him these options, IF he actually responds with good evidence that the computer is indeed damaged:
1. Partial refund (say 50-75%) and he keeps the machine
2. He sends me back the computer (well packaged) and I refund him his purchase fully + reimburse him for his shipment (probably with some sort of receipt and putting a cap on the max I can reimburse)

Does this sound right? Or would you do something different? Thx

Depends on what the price is you sold it for but I would agree with those options and how you've been handling it so far. That's honestly what I usually do, unless it's an item that only cost $20 or less, then I just refund the money and don't worry about it. It's been working so far, 1222 feedback at 100%...knock on wood...

At least he hasn't opened up a case with ebay yet, although there is a benefit to that. I sold a printer not long ago, untested/as-is and the buyer opened up an ebay case for the paper jamming. No problem, he returned it and we refunded him, everyone's happy, but here's the weird thing...when we shipped the printer it cost us I think 20 dollars or so, but with the ebay case, ebay gives the buyer an option to print a prepaid shipping label that then got charged to our ebay account and somehow ebay's preprinted label only cost $8? Wish I could get cheap rates like that!

you sold it for parts not working. End of story.

My feeling on the return policy at ebay is if a customer wants to return an item ebay wants you to work it out. So even if you have no returns and you stand by it ebay will most likely allow the buyer to give you a negative feed back with out any support for you.

I strongly support your request to have the buyer supply photos of the damage. I am "assuming" you are only communicating through ebay messages as that is what ebay looks at. If the buyer is uncooperative you are much more likely to get support from ebay.

If at anytime during the messages the buyer threatens you with bad feedback then ebay considers that extortion and will support you in removing negative feedback. (Once I was able to have a neutral feedback removed because of this)

I think if your represented your item well then the most you need to do is have the buyer return it and refund the full purchase price(this includes shipping, free or not) and do not pay for the return shipping.

If you did not represent the item well the I would (and have) given a full refund and paid the return postage. Why would I pay the return shipping because that time I had made a error in the listing and felt the buyer was in no way at fault so should not be penalized.

Opening a case against you is not a bad thing, dealing with it badly is. I think although I have not done it, that as a buyer if you want a refund then ebay tells you to open a case against the seller. So it appears to me your buyer is doing what he thinks is correct and just gave you a heads up.

I had a case against me recently where I had shipping the wrong item to the buyer. I sent a message to the buyer stating that I had made a mistake, I was sorry and I was issuing a full refund. I also told them to dispose of the item I had shipped by mistake anyway they wished. What can I say I make mistakes and I pay for them.

I'm not suggesting you made any error at all just deal with it and when in doubt call ebay help line and make them earn their pay, I certainly have. Mike

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Originally Posted by src3collector

but here's the weird thing...when we shipped the printer it cost us I think 20 dollars or so, but with the ebay case, ebay gives the buyer an option to print a prepaid shipping label that then got charged to our ebay account and somehow ebay's preprinted label only cost $8? Wish I could get cheap rates like that!

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If you use ebay shipping as a seller you also get discounts, and you print the per-paid labels. Mike

This person is scamming you. DO NOT offer a partial refund. Let them open a case, then select "return for refund" as your option. Then the case will time out and they will never send it back.

I'd think it depends on what all you put in the description since you sold it for parts. I once sold a Hard Drive out of a server for $30 since it wasn't just a "run-of-the-mill" hard drive. But I listed it as scrap and said it was untested and had been left outside one winter. I don't know how it turned out but that is about the only sale I didn't get any feedback. I don't sell much, but I'm 100% positive for 52 and comments show buyers are very pleased.

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Originally Posted by miked

If you use ebay shipping as a seller you also get discounts, and you print the per-paid labels. Mike

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I do, all of my shipping goes through it, but I've never found a way to ship a printer for only $8 (from Texas to the northeast)

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Originally Posted by miked

Opening a case against you is not a bad thing

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Unfortunately that's no longer going to be true. Ebay is changing the way they rate sellers soon and cases opened against you regardless of the outcome will count against you. In the statement they put out about it their reasoning is that "research" has showed them that just the simple fact the buyer had an issue gives them a negative view and makes them less likely to make another purchase on ebay. Therefore even if the case is closed with everyone happy and positive feedback given all around it still counts toward your seller ratings.

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Originally Posted by src3collector

I do, all of my shipping goes through it, but I've never found a way to ship a printer for only $8 (from Texas to the northeast)

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fedex

That's why I call it PrayBay.

I pulled up your listing. It's evident it's for parts/non working, although I would have left out the part where it kinda works.

All in all, I'd say the buyer needs to pound sand.

Oh, just spent 2 hours clearing %^#^&$$ing bamboo in my back yard. Not even 1/4 done!!! :mad: :)

OK, thanks for all the responses and suggestions. One note about selling as broken. The reason I think he might have a case, assuming he's not scamming me, is that if the item did get badly damaged, he can essentially claim "item not as described". If I were in his situation and I got a computer shredded into pieces as opposed to a partially functional machine which is mostly OK, I would feel I could claim that. It would be different from claiming that is the machine did not do something that was not explicitly described in the listing nor was discusses before purchasing.

Overall, I think I can stay polite but firm as long as I can if he starts to blow smoke or threaten me (somehow this is easier to do that staying calm when dealing with my teenage kids :) ) I paid nothing for the machine and got $130 for it less shipping and fees so I might offer a partial refund just to save time assuming he does not give me bad feedback. We'll see.

I'll report on the progress

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Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste

This person is scamming you. DO NOT offer a partial refund. Let them open a case, then select "return for refund" as your option. Then the case will time out and they will never send it back.

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How soon would a case time out?

You should NOT have the buyer return the item until FedEx has completed its evaluation of your claim. From FedEx's Terms & Conditions: "FedEx reserves the right to inspect a damaged shipment on the recipient's premises as well as the right to retrieve the damaged package for inspection at a FedEx facility." So be sure to tell the buyer to retain the original packaging, and tell him that FedEx might want to inspect everything. Also be very careful to file your FedEx claim correctly. If you do it wrong, they can exempt themselves from all liability. (Read the "Claims" section of their Terms & Conditions: FedEx Express Terms and Conditions and FedEx Ground Tariff)

Buyers are supposed to file PayPal disputes/claims only if they are unable to obtain a satisfactory resolution from the seller. You should let your buyer know that if he initiates a PayPal dispute, it will then have to get escalated to a claim. Since you are cooperating with him, that is unlikely to occur. Even if it does get escalated, if PayPal resolves the claim in his favor, he will have to return the item to you and pay the shipping costs himself: "PayPal will generally require the buyer to ship an item that the buyer claims is Significantly Not as Described back to the seller (at the buyer's expense), and PayPal will generally require a seller to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs."

If you declared a value for the package when you shipped it via FedEx, they are liable up to that amount. If it's not a big number, they'll probably pay it. In that case, you will be fully covered on your end, so you can reimburse the buyer and let him keep the item or ask him to send it back and agree to pay actual FedEx Ground shipping costs based on his receipt.

Given the above, and assuming that we're talking about a total that's big enough to make it worth your while to go thru filing a FedEx claim, I would tell the buyer the following:

• You're willing to give him a full refund. (This way, if he decides to go ahead with a PayPal dispute, you can show that you have already agreed to a refund.)
• Resolving the problem thru the FedEx claims process is a better solution for him than using the PayPal claims process.
• He needs to retain all the original shipping materials, since FedEx may ask to inspect everything. (Unlikely if it's a small amount of money, but it will probably scare him off if he's exaggerating the damage.) You also need him to send you digital photos right away that clearly show all damage incurred, since you need to submit these to FedEx.
• FedEx states that "Most cases will normally be resolved in 5 to 7 business days after we receive your claim form and supporting claim documentation."
• Since you have to depend on the buyer's cooperation in order to complete the FedEx claim process (and FedEx might reject the claim), you can offer two options: (1) If he wants a refund now, he can ship the item back to you, and you will issue a refund for the item and the cost of shipping it to him. However, since this will invalidate your FedEx claim, you're very sorry, but he would have to pay the return shipping. This is the exact same result he would get if he went thru the PayPal claims process and it was resolved in his favor. (2) If he is willing to wait until FedEx resolves your claim, you will give him a full refund and let him keep the item if FedEx finds in your favor. (Here I'm assuming your declared value for the package is equal to your selling price.) If FedEx rejects the claim or issues only a partial refund, you will still honor option (1) and let him return the item at his cost less the amount of the partial refund (up to the full cost of return shipping), or you will credit him the amount of FedEx's partial refund and he can keep the damaged item.

I think that approach would cover all the possible outcomes and give you all the protection you need. I don't see any benefit in offering an immediate partial refund, since all that does is cause you to lose money based on an unverified claim of damage. In any event, you described the item as not working, so I'm not even sure PayPal would resolve a claim in the buyer's favor if there's no visible damage to the item. Probably all that's happened is that some connection in the computer has come loose, so if you get it back you'll probably be able to fix it in 2 minutes.

BTW, you should always assume that anything you ship via FedEx will be dropped from a height of about 30" and get jostled a lot. If you're shipping something fragile (and it's valuable enough to warrant the effort/expense), the best solution is to double-box it with lots of padding between the outer and inner box. (For the padding, use foam or bubble wrap, NOT those larger air pouches, which deflate on impact!) Any computer with a built-in monitor will be very vulnerable to shipping damage, so those should always be double-boxed.

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Originally Posted by FLimits

Given the above, and assuming that we're talking about a total that's big enough to make it worth your while to go thru filing a FedEx claim, I would tell the buyer the following:

• You're willing to give him a full refund. (This way, if he decides to go ahead with a PayPal dispute, you can show that you have already agreed to a refund.)
• Resolving the problem thru the FedEx claims process is a better solution for him than using the PayPal claims process.
• He needs to retain all the original shipping materials, since FedEx may ask to inspect everything. (Unlikely if it's a small amount of money, but it will probably scare him off if he's exaggerating the damage.) You also need him to send you digital photos right away that clearly show all damage incurred, since you need to submit these to FedEx.
• FedEx states that "Most cases will normally be resolved in 5 to 7 business days after we receive your claim form and supporting claim documentation."
• Since you have to depend on the buyer's cooperation in order to complete the FedEx claim process (and FedEx might reject the claim), you can offer two options: (1) If he wants a refund now, he can ship the item back to you, and you will issue a refund for the item and the cost of shipping it to him. However, since this will invalidate your FedEx claim, you're very sorry, but he would have to pay the return shipping. This is the exact same result he would get if he went thru the PayPal claims process and it was resolved in his favor. (2) If he is willing to wait until FedEx resolves your claim, you will give him a full refund and let him keep the item if FedEx finds in your favor. (Here I'm assuming your declared value for the package is equal to your selling price.) If FedEx rejects the claim or issues only a partial refund, you will still honor option (1) and let him return the item at his cost less the amount of the partial refund (up to the full cost of return shipping), or you will credit him the amount of FedEx's partial refund and he can keep the damaged item.

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Wow, thanks for such a detailed response! You surely did you research!

I think at this point I will just wait since with my request for more photos the ball is in his court.

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Originally Posted by ilyaz

Wow, thanks for such a detailed response! You surely did you research!

I think at this point I will just wait since with my request for more photos the ball is in his court.

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Well, I don't want my buddy to get into any trouble or get ripped off! ;)

Just be sure to communicate with the guy -- through eBay's email interface -- so he can't claim that you're unwilling to resolve the issue.

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Originally Posted by PartTimeScrapper

you sold it for parts not working. End of story.

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Plenty of collectors buy broken machines for cosmetic parts. If you just toss something in a box badly packed and it gets trashed buyers will get pissed and leave negatives. Shipping damage pretty much falls to the packer/seller.

Update:
1. FedEx gave me a partial refund without me even submitting the paperwork and photos. Gave me $100. I was stupid to put that as item's value when I originally shipped it, instead of the about $130 I sold it for. Oh well, lesson learned... I suspect that one reason for them to closing the claim that fast was that I had never submitted any claims before that.
2. Buyer accepted a partial refund that was smaller than the full amount he paid but he got to keep the machine and did not have to pay for shipping it back to me. Gave me good feedback. So in the end we were both happy with the outcome.

So case closed. Definitely a learning experience for me. Thanks for all your suggestions.