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A Digital Dump | Ethos Magazine
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Are they getting from America all these TV's
now unless i read incorrectly Two-hundred-and-twenty pounds of wire can be sold for up to five Ghana cedis, equivalent to $3.35
If that be the case some one is making huge profits and there is definitely going to be a strong desire to sell off many of ours and or Europe's old appliances to these poor souls
that is just.. wow i cant belive it. that is just sick. the people buyin and sellin it should be fined, and charged to clean up the waste that it leaves behind.
YES but lets do the math - a hard working slum kid can make $3.35 for 220 lbs copper wire since i see fires we know we are talking #2 copper If I had that 220 pounds thats at least $517.00 cash
We got $513 profit - who ever gets that profit must use some of that money to get the product there from the west. when you consider just to ship one heavy computer with USPS a cost of $39 is about the going rate /One can see the numbers add up the profit pays the massive shipping to Indonesia yielding a profit for high placed individuals
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All that plastic they burn has value .07 a lb. = = = Members I think the earth is in trouble & oddly you and me are able to sell our items at a price these sad people only dream of.
Corruption never stops the angle always available & the sacrificial goat ready to blindly walk the direction .
‘It’s not ours to ask what or why, only to do or die
It may just be my own opinion, but I do believe that Ghana, and Indonesia, are just about a world apart?Quote:
Originally Posted by Copper Head
If you go on youtube these people from china Have tons and tons and tons of ewaste
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
http://youtu.be/EXzsqTFwV3Q
I was also reading up on how small villages have black soot all over and acid's in the air from home grown E waste recycling Then I found this and it took me by surprise . The pollution is consistent with any back yard recycling in third world areas
I am taken aback at the minuscule price these kids are paid . I met some people from Ghana and was told a whole chicken from a market is like $10 or $20
If this burning of wire is going on day after day the smell from the left over ash alone is such a stench If these " masters " had some scrap wood to make fires hotter that would help a little, but these areas have no money for that . Such waste we have in the USA just with our old wood furniture put to the curb could be used as is - or even to stoke a hotter cleaner fire.
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Back to E waste who in the first place makes all the fun items to sell to us ? Little to none is made in America guess it's not surprising so much ends up back to them as these shipping pathways exsist due to the infiltration of Indonesian goods . Like me as a curb scrapper any time my car is in motion I expect to utilized it to find items of value . The ships that go back and forth also want to make money non stop and delivering old tv's and more seem to be the ticket.
http://youtu.be/dd_ZttK3PuM
It's over we are done we will go the way of the dinosaur some day way to much pollution green house on it's way
I see those videos and just see all the money they are missing.
I think you missed my point CH, Indonesia is in the Asia-Pacific, Ghana is on the West coast of Africa. There was nothing in your article about Indonesia, it was talking about Ghana. As far as the videos, I can't watch them, I'm stuck with dial-up in one of the richest, most developed countries in the world ;)
It is my belief that these propaganda videos are made by huge e-cycle outfits trying to discourage smaller players and to push public sentiment about e-waste in a certain direction. I DO NOT believe this e-waste is being shipped from the West to the East so these kids can burn it to recover pennies from copper wires. I believe the e-waste in the pictures is built in the East, used in the East, and discarded in the East. There are more than 1.3 billion people in China and 1.2 Billion in India. Africa can get their e-waste from China and India just as easily. Those two countries comprise nearly half of the planet's population. They produce plenty of e-waste all on their own.
While I agree that the US, and other Western countries, has an e-waste problem, I do not agree that Western e-waste is creating these problems in Eastern cultures.
Just my two.
That's all true too RT, but also I'm certain they get boatloads of waste from here, plastics and metals included. Those boats want to go back with something, even if it's just waste, and we're certainly not sending them back filled with manufactured goods any more.
Perhaps to add on to Recyclotrops comment, I have traveled to many "developed" countries whose waste management is generally far behind the U.S. The many ports I stopped in my travels with the US Marines found them visably polluted unlike the ones in the U.S. I can attest that the sewer systems in much of the developed world consists of dumping raw sewage in the coastal waters. I point this out as these same countries are pointed to as what we should aim for.
Can we do better as a country, of course we can. Are we the evil users of too much, I don't think so. But I grew up using an outhouse and for a long time all we had was one radio in the house. (no tv, computer, etc) Mike.
You see so many circuit boars. You wonder if it would be economical to pay them to not strip/burn it and just sort and ship it back for recovery here
the real sad thing is they are killing themselves to make a living to die young and keep the cycle going but not rising up and putting there lives on the line to fight for there freedom for there country and for a better way of life fear is a powerful thing being shot over being posioned slowley. either way its there choice and its also ours as americans we let this happen because of what we buy the way we buy it and how we work for what we want. if we want it cheap then americans cant make it cause we must exploite others to do so because most americans are lazy those that scrap like us here know what work is and how at times when we are doing good how easy it is to make money doing this but most can not understand what work really is but thats a huge topic for just one post and not really on here anyway. one thing though is i wish i could collect all those boards as well wow thats alot an estimated 4 million each year thats some gold. this is a sad thing but when no one does anything about it thats what makes good news i guess
Bear - I agree some of the waste may come from Western countries. But, I think the Western infrastructure for recycling materials probably exeeds that of many Eastern or African cultures, thus reducing the amount of waste available for transport. There are several scrap yards within driving distance for almost every American. I'm not sure how it is in Western Europe, but I suspect that people who want to sell their wires and metals have no trouble finding a place to sell it. Maybe not everyone scraps, but everyone knows someone who knows someone who scraps. Sure e-waste buyers may be further and fewer between, and many of us have to resort to shipping materials to attain the best pricing. But we are shipping domestically to outfits who most likely refine it domestically. Due to the legislative changes in most states in recent years, there are huge nationwide e-waste collection campaigns to gather material in central locations. I don't think that recycling centers, Goodwill, Staples, Best Buy, and places like that are putting the material on boats to Africa. I think they are selling the material to domestic processors, and those processors are further profiting by processing the materials, usually domestically.
As part of the campaign to collect e-waste material for free, these outfits produce these videos to sway public opinion of the waste. They want the public to believe that if you get within 100 feet of any e-waste, you might die of cancer within minutes. Or a laser beam may shoot out of it and evaporate you and your friends on the spot. But of course when it is the latest generation high tech gadget, we should all buy one immediately. When it becomes outdated, it will self destruct in five seconds, and it may take you and your neighbors with it. Put on your HAZMAT suit, and call the National Guard, we have e-waste on the loose.
I respect everyones opinion. But I hate to break it to you.... We have a huge environmental impact on these countries due to "our" E waste. Remember these are third world countries with poverty levels the average American just doesn't understand. There are times we go, "broke" while these people don't have coins in between the seats, an extra dime in the washing machine a few things they could go pawn to get by till pay day. They have no pay day. Imagine taking away your home and belongings and replacing it with your tool shed out back, Without the tools, throw away all but two of your worse sets of clothes, replace your mode of transportation with a flimsy pair of flip flops, what would you do? These people do whatever they can to get by. They sacrifice their lives to survive. Not to make a living but to live. Sure there's that guy making all the profit, reeking the benefits of penny labor in these poverty stricken countries. but the majority are dirt dirt poor. In these countries you're either dirt poor or rich and if you're rich you're more than likely corrupt. With that said, most of these countries don't have computers like the average American. Sure their population may be much larger but their per capita income would not allow them to afford the luxuries of a computer or various electronics. Think about how many electronics we have in our house today, now think back how many pieces of electronics have we had in our house in the past 10 years? Now go back to living in the tool shed... How many pieces of electronics do you think you'd have in there? Exactly. Electronic scrap is one of the largest growing waste streams in our country. Even though it's frowned upon, a lot of it is going to these third world countries. Face it, these are also the countries who have high demand for our metal so as any likely American we take opportunities to maximize our profits. If this means selling to China, then sell to China. This stuff needs to go somewhere and we'd prefer it not to be in our own back yards. I'm not debating right or wrong, but don't be naive to think we have nothing to do with a lot of these stories we hear in the news. Until our own country can get to the point where we no longer need to scrap for a living, this will always be an issue we like to turn a blind eye to.
God bless America!!!!!
What do you think is happening to all the crt tubes you guys are bringing to the dump or goodwill? Don't tell me they get recycled here in the USA, there is nothing to recycle them into. They use to recycle the glass into other crt tubes but they don't make crt tubes any more. The EPA has set so many rules for recycling in this country that they have to ship this stuff off to third world countries. But then if wasn't for the rules of the EPA this country might look like the video we just saw.
Hi, I think there will always be a small market for crt's in the digital/photo/graphic market.
recycled crt's can even be used as road base and i'm sure if someone put their mind to it,
they'd find other uses not thought of yet.
what about somehow melting it, taking it into space and blowing a giant glass bubble around the earth
to make some sort of new ozone layer?
If you watch the e waste hell video there seems to be plenty of proof CRT's are coming to them from us . I go on Ebay and see a vintage computer for sale for like $2 but then i see the shipping cost and it's a nogo . The fact that even 1 CRT is in China or Ghana from us is suspicious . I completely believe we are supplying tons, even I find so many at the curb There is an overabundance & sure it makes for good press when you see a recycle Company in the USA doing it clean . But just as you and me depend on much of our products found Free . Much of the copper put into the market I see is purchased at a pittance . Considering the ships have no choice but to go back any way to get more goods to sell us they do go back with scrap to recycle in ways that USA wont allow.
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Now another issue - all the hard drives if i find 10 computers trust me only 1 will be either hard drive free or wiped . Wile I do believe the USA government does security wipe there computers , The concern I have is JEALOUSY & even anger for the USA - Why you may ask ?? you see how these people live and they look at our hard drives and they see pictures and other information that exceeds and confirms that USA is a country of people with - cars - nice houses - and more. How do you think they feel after seeing this first hand on a computer that they know is real and not propaganda. Believe me you ; they have an opinion about it, as it's only human nature, A Monk has wisdom to see past the trappings of human desires , these people want more then they will ever get and here we are living like kings to them.
Absolutely You need to develop that & start saving tubes , I can help and send you some - See Ben all you need is an idea I hope you have room for it .Better get the idea patented first to make it legal .Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapperben
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http://youtu.be/pbDeS_mXMnM
I've watched all the videos in this thread, and I thank Copper Head for providing them. However, I still fail to see how this is an e-waste problem that abundant western cultures have dumped on poor African and Chinese neighborhoods, while turning a blind eye. There is not a fleet of container ships mysteriously showing up in the night, dumping millions of tons of scrap on the beach, and taking off before they are caught.
These are contracted import/export shipments, legal and non-legal, that are scheduled to arrive from a documented shipper to a documented receiver. It sounds like they are being represented as working items, and often actually either need repair or are non-repairable. So, at the outset it is either a local customs issue or an international legal fraud issue. The receiving countries are ill-equipped to detect and enforce the violations, and illegal shipping continues.
Once the items are tested, working material is sold in markets and non-working material is dumped and scavenged for scrap (sort of like what we do here in the US.) At this point it is no longer a customs issue, but an EPA issue. Local receiving governments are not doing enough to protect the environment. Why do we not see these burn piles and neighborhoods in the US?
Because our EPA does a better job enacting and enforcing laws against it. Evidently, in Ghana and other places, the local EPA is not doing enough to prevent it from happening. If they would enact laws against it, educate their people how to safely operate, and enforce those laws appropriately, the local scrappers (recyclers) will learn to adapt. It is guidance from our local governments, along with legal deterrent, that has educated our population on appropriate ways to recover recyclable materials.
In the final video that Copper Head posted, it really is unrelated to e-waste. It talks more about 64 million empty apartments is China, and empty shopping malls, etc.., and how the Chinese government keeps building these empty cities. I think the Chinese government has watched "Field of Dreams" once too often. But, they may be right. If they build it, they will come. Only time will tell. Surely a population of 1.3 billion people can figure out how to fill those empty spaces eventually. Again, I do not see an e-waste issue here. This is a problem that the market of buyers and sellers will have to work out. China is still very new to free markets, and this is a by-product of those growing pains.
I think I've gone from 2, to 4, to 6 cents now. So, I'll stop.