Police

**thirsty** · 08-01-2012, 06:25 AM

The other problem, is the "Us Vs Them" mentality that a lot of cops seem to take, the older cops, the ones that respect the people rights, and do things like de-escalate a situation, etc.. are now retiring or are close to retiring. The ones taking their place have been raised in a war-like atmosphere, "War on Drugs", where the mission is to make the enemy submit to your will, then there's things like asset forfeiture laws that are being abused, the "contempt of cop" that's now spreading, things like that.

My man, there is a war out there. The "us vs them" attitude does exist. Why do you think that is though? I see you are a veteran. Respect. I am doing a background investigation on a former Marine who held the rank of staff sergeant and valiantly served 3 tours in combat, if I am not mistaking. He too has the "us vs them mentality" and this mentality will follow him right into his police work. But the truth of the fact is, this mentality will KEEP HIM ALIVE! It will make him suspicious of people he should be suspicious of. I hate to say it, but I am suspicious of everyone as should you be. Do me a favor, find this book and if you married, have a girlfriend, mother, sisiter, have them read it too. It is called The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. I think anyone can benefit from it. It is not Mayberry anymore. Look at those poor folks in Colorado trying to watch a movie. There are BAD people out there that have been planning and dreaming of killing cops, dads, moms, kids, etc. Be honest, you dont have that mentality as well?

I am confused as to your comment of time off with a check, please clarify. If you are refering to paid suspension or paid leave until completion of an investigation, why not?? In my experience, when an officer is found to have violated departmental rules and regs, the punishments can vary from loss of vacation time to suspension without pay to termination.

**BRASSCATCHER** · 08-01-2012, 08:56 AM

Try to remember this when dealing with a police officer. He/she has no idea who your are if there is a situation where they have to intervene. They don't know if they are dealing with a law abiding citizen, an emotionally disturbed person or a career criminal with an ax to grind. That initial encounter is a great unknown for them. Police officers have been shot and killed while conducting a simple traffic stop, which is one of the most dangerous things the police do. They have been killed and maimed while going to a domestic dispute. I try to give any officer the benefit of doubt. On the flip side any veteran officer should know within a minute on how that initial encounter is going to go based on how you act and speak to them. am I biased, yes and I will tell you why.
I witnessed 9-11 up close and personal. I will tell you this,while thousands were running from those buildings that morning,the firemen, police and other first responders were running towards them and held their posts when people were trying to get out,body's were falling from windows and the towers eventually came down. Yeah I give any police officer the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise they earned that from me.

**ggariepy** · 08-01-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by thirsty

T Do me a favor, find this book and if you married, have a girlfriend, mother, sisiter, have them read it too. It is called The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. I think anyone can benefit from it. It is not Mayberry anymore. Look at those poor folks in Colorado trying to watch a movie. There are BAD people out there that have been planning and dreaming of killing cops, dads, moms, kids, etc. Be honest, you dont have that mentality as well?

Saw this, checked my local library via the Internet, and have a copy in my hands right now. Will be reading it over the next few days. Thanks for the recommendation.

**thirsty** · 08-01-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by ggariepy

Saw this, checked my local library via the Internet, and have a copy in my hands right now. Will be reading it over the next few days. Thanks for the recommendation.

Enjoy, some pretty enlighting stuff in there.

**Insanity** · 08-01-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by thirsty

The other problem, is the "Us Vs Them" mentality that a lot of cops seem to take, the older cops, the ones that respect the people rights, and do things like de-escalate a situation, etc.. are now retiring or are close to retiring. The ones taking their place have been raised in a war-like atmosphere, "War on Drugs", where the mission is to make the enemy submit to your will, then there's things like asset forfeiture laws that are being abused, the "contempt of cop" that's now spreading, things like that.

My man, there is a war out there. The "us vs them" attitude does exist. Why do you think that is though? I see you are a veteran. Respect. I am doing a background investigation on a former Marine who held the rank of staff sergeant and valiantly served 3 tours in combat, if I am not mistaking. He too has the "us vs them mentality" and this mentality will follow him right into his police work. But the truth of the fact is, this mentality will KEEP HIM ALIVE! It will make him suspicious of people he should be suspicious of. I hate to say it, but I am suspicious of everyone as should you be. Do me a favor, find this book and if you married, have a girlfriend, mother, sisiter, have them read it too. It is called The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. I think anyone can benefit from it. It is not Mayberry anymore. Look at those poor folks in Colorado trying to watch a movie. There are BAD people out there that have been planning and dreaming of killing cops, dads, moms, kids, etc. Be honest, you dont have that mentality as well?

The difference is you're not fighting an enemy, when you're in a war, the idea is to make the other person submit. Either by killing people, or breaking things... Police aren't there to make the populace submit, they're there to keep the peace when laws are broken, but this idea of fighting a war is just leading down a dead end road with only one outcome.

While I agree that being a cop is a dangerous profession, it's also something you signed up for, just like when I signed up for the military, I knew I could come home in a box, that still didn't mean I could shoot a guy because he might have a grenade. While I also agree that you should be cautious, maybe even a bit fearful... You still have to keep in mind that it's not a war, as much as a lot of cops might want to believe it is.

The SSgt you're background checking is part of the problem, he's probably a great SSgt... but he's gonna be stuck in war mentally as it's all he knows, a lot of former military are. Over there, the enemy has no rights, there are no laws.... etc.

I have no issue with being suspicious of things, I am myself.. if something doesn't feel right, then I do what I can to get rid of the feeling. That doesn't consist of violating rights and laws, and yes there are crazy people out there willing to do things like that, but they will always be there. The only thing we can do is minimize the damage from people like that. IE... allowing CCW carriers to bring their weapons with them into the theater.

I am confused as to your comment of time off with a check, please clarify. If you are refering to paid suspension or paid leave until completion of an investigation, why not?? In my experience, when an officer is found to have violated departmental rules and regs, the punishments can vary from loss of vacation time to suspension without pay to termination.

Here's an example, Daniel Harless a Canton, Ohio officer.

Canton cop threatens to execute driver over weapons permit*|*Raw Replay

That video is apparently just one of the 3 that I can find mention of, it's the one that got him fired but only after it went public. He apparently also had a pattern of incidents like these. Why was he still on the force after the first?

I would expect that kind of reaction in a warzone... not a neighborhood.

Then you have what seems like the endless supply of SWAT raids that end up with someone dead and it's the wrong house, very rarely is there any punishment for their actions. Those officers even end up with medals sometimes...

SWAT Officers get Medals- but they raided the wrong house! // Current TV

But it seems like every week there's another officer getting put on paid leave for something, some incidents by the officers are justified, but some cross the line and it seems like even when they cross the line, they simply get a paid vacation till it all blows over, unless it ends up on Youtube, then something gets done. Such as Harless, or the BART officer that shot a guy in the back...