What Percentage of Real Gold and PM Value Buyers Paying?- - Page 2

Originally Posted by Mechanic688

I have used Boardsort twice now but I would have to say that all the buyers on this forum come highly recommended.

Good to know - thanks!

When I dealt with Cascade in the 80s they did their refining in-house.<<

i have been messing around with ewaste since back in the mid 70's. as far as i know there has never been a circuit board refiner in the u.s.
a quick check of cascade does not show any of the required permits or zoning for refining. they do have a few pawn brokers licenses in several states.

however, if you have dealt with a processor numerous times in the past, you should already know what the average recovered values should or could be. especially of older items.

makes me wonder why you are asking about values.

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

When I dealt with Cascade in the 80s they did their refining in-house.<<

i have been messing around with ewaste since back in the mid 70's. as far as i know there has never been a circuit board refiner in the u.s.
a quick check of cascade does not show any of the required permits or zoning for refining. they do have a few pawn brokers licenses in several states.

however, if you have dealt with a processor numerous times in the past, you should already know what the average recovered values should or could be. especially of older items.

makes me wonder why you are asking about values.

Like I say, Cascade did my telcom escrap in the 80s. There were many others around then too and I'm sure there are many who do refine e-scrap in the U.S. I'm asking about values because I don't only do e-scrap but other things too. I do all sorts of salvage work and I've let computer towers pile up. The last time I did e-scrap I was dealing with microwave repeater radios, mini computers, mainframe computers - mostly pre PC stuff so I'm trying to get up to speed and also trying to find info for people who follow me on my website and blog. Cascade no longer does this. I know nothing of these new buyers who have come along since gold soared to such heights. I'm not saying these new guys are good or bad, but in Gold generally there are a bunch of shady folks out there and I want to make sure that If I recommend someone, they are legit, hones and open. Make sense?

My experience with e-scrap is really older stuff. Micro and mini computers, large mainframe backframes, microwave attentuators, wireless repeaters. Other posters say Cascade does on site refining and still does e-scrap. I'll contact them and see what's up. None of the "older" towers were around in those days and that's why I'm trying to get some help with them on this forum. I think that's what the forum is all about. Is that right? Does this satisfy your curiousity? Hope so?

When I dealt with Cascade in the 80s they did their refining in-house. Sounds like maybe they're like a lot of middlemen and maybe don't do their refining themselves anymore. Does it seem like the do or don't. They used to be really good on e-scrap. I moved tons of telcom e-scrap through them years ago and was always really happy with the return but things change and all sorts of creeps come out of the woodwork with gold prices so high.

Cascade has the same owner as it always has. Everything is still done in-house. GREED HAS GOT THE BEST OF THEM!

Seemed like my question would be easy to answer, but after reading a few responses to my post early today, I've decided to refine a couple of pounds of 386/486 myself and see what I get out of them. <<

seems like you would be sharing first? perhaps you could share the recovered values of that telecom scrap you had 'refined'.

i do exchange returns with a few individuals. i compare my returns to their returns. or vice versa.

as an example. i just got a settlement back from a processor. it was only X oz of gold, Y oz of silver, Z oz of platinum and D lbs of copper for my # of lbs of 386/486 cpu's. i ask how does that compare to your last lot of 386/486 processors. pretty simple.

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

Seemed like my question would be easy to answer, but after reading a few responses to my post early today, I've decided to refine a couple of pounds of 386/486 myself and see what I get out of them. <<

seems like you would be sharing first? perhaps you could share the recovered values of that telecom scrap you had 'refined'.

i do exchange returns with a few individuals. i compare my returns to their returns. or vice versa.

as an example. i just got a settlement back from a processor. it was only X oz of gold, Y oz of silver, Z oz of platinum and D lbs of copper for my # of lbs of 386/486 cpu's. i ask how does that compare to your last lot of 386/486 processors. pretty simple.

I was asking what refiners/buyers pay compared to the actual spot value of gold. Same thing I would do if I took a 14k ring in to sell. I'd want to know what percentage of spot I was getting. Shady guys try to get around the question - good ones tell you exactly. In another post I wondered what a tower was worth. I did my e-scrapping mostly of telcom, mini and microcomputers. Been stockpiling towers til now. So I don't know about 386/486 but I'm going to refine a few pounds and then I'll let the forum know. As far as my telcom goes it was a ways back. Cascade at the time was paying around 80% of spot on gold, nothing on other pm or non-ferrous found. I was happy at the time. I wasn't looking to find out your or anyone elses actual returns - just a ballpark figure so I could figure how much time to take on an item and determine if the e-scrap is worth it compared to the other salvaging I do.

I wrongly assumed that the buyers I see on the internet and some that have responded here were refiners. I see now that they are not refiners but middlemen. <<

why would you assume a buyer was automatically a refiner. did you assume every scrap metal buyer or scrap yard was a smelter?

umicore, xstrata ( non u.s. facility) and hanawa are ewaste refiners. ecs, specialty metal, oh so accurate, envirochem, are all processors. if you are looking to write a book on the refined return rates of ewaste or the return rates averaged by processors, i would suggest you try them. i would think a good writer would have researched the subject and then gone straight to the source. there are several well known refiners and processors in the states. i am curious why you did not start there. tho i imagine they all told you it is confidential and proprietary information.

it is interesting how you have used innocence, guile, shame and guilt in the pursuit of an answer to your questions.

most of what you are seeking is available on the internet. the rest can be found in your larger library's. you simply have to know enough about the subject to know what to search for.

i can see another email in my future.

why would you assume a buyer was automatically a refiner. did you assume every scrap metal buyer or scrap yard was a smelter?

Just an assumption. Didn't really mean anything by it other than I assumed they were refiners not middlemen. I have dealt mostly with refiners. That's all. why does it matter?

umicore, xstrata ( non u.s. facility) and hanawa are ewaste refiners. ecs, specialty metal, oh so accurate, envirochem, are all processors. if you are looking to write a book on the refined return rates of ewaste or the return rates averaged by processors, i would suggest you try them. i would think a good writer would have researched the subject and then gone straight to the source. there are several well known refiners and processors in the states. i am curious why you did not start there. tho i imagine they all told you it is confidential and proprietary information.

I started here rather than there because I thought this was a friendly forum and I could get some ballpark info for people that I help with salvage. I may do more research in the future, but I thought this was a good starting place. I don't think getting the percentage of spot price paid is proprietary. You obviously know more about refining nowadays than I. Thanks for this tips. That's why I came to the forum.

it is interesting how you have used innocence, guile, shame and guilt in the pursuit of an answer to your questions.

I asked a really simple question and was looking for a straightforward answer. You see more in it than that? Oh well.

most of what you are seeking is available on the internet. the rest can be found in your larger library's. you simply have to know enough about the subject to know what to search for.

Right, of course, but like I said before I thought this was a helpful place - a good place to start to get help for myself and others. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

Originally Posted by NoMoreScrapLeft

Cascade has the same owner as it always has. Everything is still done in-house. GREED HAS GOT THE BEST OF THEM!

In the 80s they did e-scrap. Another poster said they don't do refining in house any more. I could really care less. I was just stating that I don't believe they do e-scrap anymore and when i called once it sounded like they had changed hands - my bad. Really sorry if this has offended you.

There were many others around then too and I'm sure there are many who do refine e-scrap in the U.S. <<

could you name even one ewaste refiner in the u.s. ?

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

There were many others around then too and I'm sure there are many who do refine e-scrap in the U.S. <<

could you name even one ewaste refiner in the u.s. ?

Only known one I dealt with was Cascade in the 80s. There were other smaller ones up and down California's gold country but most weren't very honest. Assays and returns didn't add up. Why do you ask?

as an example. I just got a settlement back from a processor. It was only x oz of gold, y oz of silver, z oz of platinum and d lbs of copper for my # of lbs of 386/486 cpu's. I ask how does that compare to your last lot of 386/486 processors. Pretty simple

i'm lost!

Originally Posted by NoMoreScrapLeft

i'm lost!

my apologies.

there is a point to this. the OP is lost as well. which is confusing, considering the OP claims to have dealt with 'refiners' in the past.

I'm wondering folks. Why does such a simple question on a supposedly helpful forum bring forth so much suspicion and defensiveness. What's up with that? Why is what I asked so offensive? I recommended this forum to a lot of folks telling them that I really enjoyed answering and asking questions, entering in discussions... But this is something else? What's up?

It's all good. Cascade does refine the gold pins and computer boards in-house. Does that qualify them as a "refiner". I would think so but ewate I hardly know JACK about. Is there any gold in larger heavy metal items?

Originally Posted by NoMoreScrapLeft

It's all good. Cascade does refine the gold pins and computer boards in-house. Does that qualify them as a "refiner". I would think so but ewate I hardly know JACK about. Is there any gold in larger heavy metal items?

Thanks. Good to know. In my book that makes them a U.S. refiner of e-scrap. I ran into some heavy gold plated attenuators and parts from microwave telcom years ago. I can't think of any heavy metal pieces that are actually alloyed with gold, but maybe others know more about this.

I was asking what refiners/buyers pay compared to the actual spot value of gold. Same thing I would do if I took a 14k ring in to sell. I'd want to know what percentage of spot I was getting. Shady guys try to get around the question - good ones tell you exactly. <<

not a good analogy. karat material is governed. which does not always mean that you are getting true karat value when it was manufactured. 14 k is usually 13.5 not 14. ( i have seen it lower.) i would agree that the average person would not be aware of that. you are not the average person. so you would know. ergo, you would know what your return should be. and what the value should be in relation to what you were being offered or what an assay showed for return.

plating requirements for electronics are not held to those same standards. plating requirements are set by the client and the manufacturer, who may or may not strictly adhere to them. depends on how good there quality control was on that day. or that run. while a certain cpu or circuit board has an average, that is all it is. an average. and the average can vary considerably. which means that your question is not a black and white answer. at least as far as a determined set value between comparable items.

it is more comparable to sterling silver. regardless of the hallmark, depending on where the item was manufactured and when, it can run from a true % of 80% to 95%. big difference.

electronics are the same way. with a few exceptions. military, nasa, etc. but those items make up a very small amount of the total ewaste being recycled.

shady guys just keep asking the same question in different forms hoping someone will just hand them a cheat sheet.

what were the recovered amounts you received from those telecom boards?

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

I was asking what refiners/buyers pay compared to the actual spot value of gold. Same thing I would do if I took a 14k ring in to sell. I'd want to know what percentage of spot I was getting. Shady guys try to get around the question - good ones tell you exactly. <<

not a good analogy. karat material is governed. which does not always mean that you are getting true karat value when it was manufactured. 14 k is usually 13.5 not 14. ( i have seen it lower.) i would agree that the average person would not be aware of that. you are not the average person. so you would know. ergo, you would know what your return should be. and what the value should be in relation to what you were being offered or what an assay showed for return.

plating requirements for electronics are not held to those same standards. plating requirements are set by the client and the manufacturer, who may or may not strictly adhere to them. depends on how good there quality control was on that day. or that run. while a certain cpu or circuit board has an average, that is all it is. an average. and the average can vary considerably. which means that your question is not a black and white answer. at least as far as a determined set value between comparable items.

it is more comparable to sterling silver. regardless of the hallmark, depending on where the item was manufactured and when, it can run from a true % of 80% to 95%. big difference.

electronics are the same way. with a few exceptions. military, nasa, etc. but those items make up a very small amount of the total ewaste being recycled.

shady guys just keep asking the same question in different forms hoping someone will just hand them a cheat sheet.

what were the recovered amounts you received from those telecom boards?

Good info - thanks - you are right. I guess I can get a ballpark (and that's all I wanted) by taking the actual gold content of a given CPU, determine how many CPUs in a pounds, compare that to what some of the buyers are offering to pay per pounds and then from this I can determine what percentage of actual gold content they are paying to the seller. Once I do this I'll post it here. Not exact of course but it will be a good rule of thumb for some, for me at least.

It's been a long while re: the telcom boards. Gold was at around $300 and I was getting upwards of $20 a pound as I recall. Some was made back in the early 70s, some in late 70s and early 80s. Gold plating on this stuff was much thicker than it is on today's electronics but it varied a lot as well. Amazing was the thickness of gold plate on attenuators - big chunks of brass weighing 1/2 pound or so. I removed the plate from this myself using a cell I put together after reading and corresponding with both C.W. Ammen and George Gadja. I'm guessing again but I think I was getting an ounce of gold for every 40 or so attentuators. Those days are gone, but maybe not in some of the very expensive military stuff - too much competition there for me.

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

shady guys just keep asking the same question in different forms hoping someone will just hand them a cheat sheet.

I disagree! Shady guys are the ones that react defensively, go into attack mode, question motives, make personal attacks on ones character - in short, do anything to distract so they don't have to answer the question. My intent in asking this extremely simple question is to determine who are reputable buyers and who are not. I have to take care to assure my people that they're dealing with someone on the up and up. After 30 plus years in the biz, defensiveness is tops when it comes to avoiding the answer and these are the guys who are likely shady. At least I wouldn't lose a dime on them to find out. I don't want to send my people to something like a cashforgold scam. Not saying any of the e-scrap buyers are of that ilk, but you never know til you ask and whether I got answers to the question or answers about character I've learned a lot.

I'll be posting my list of actual gold content per pound of CPUs once I have it worked out - my own answer to my own question