Thanks everyone ! I've been putting extra time into the electronics I have been tearing apart to learn from them. Have been able to break down almost everything, but these two stumped me. They are heavy and seem pretty solid, apart from the copper wiring part. I'm gonna play with them a bit, use a sawsall and a grinder to learn more, this should help with future demolishen - will post what I've learned later ( 2 weeks of vacation coming up ).