Wow! Unanimous contempt for the law abider. Irrational? Maybe, maybe not. While your post is eloquent and
appears to ooze lucidity, it is so wrong on so many levels. This is most likely my fault, as you have so clearly pointed out the many blank portions of my claims. Although a bit condescending, it was written like a true gentleman, and obviously required a bit of thought. Therefore, I believe it commands the dignity of an intelligent response. I may be the wrong man for that job, but I will certainly give it a shot, line by line.
Here goes:
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Yes, but they are not mutually exclusive.
They most certainly are. Their exclusivity lies in and out of the acts of trespassing and theft.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
You could not be more wrong...
If you (in the past ten years or so) have seen somebody throwing out a water heater or stove, sitting on the curb next to their trash, and you didn't grab it to scrap it because you think it is wrong, I don't think you can call yourself a scrapper. You may be a hauler, or a small scrap metal broker, or a
metal recycling consultant, or maybe you just have so much money that you can pass up on the opportunity.
Trash at the curb....every junkman's wet dream, including mine.. This public domain stretch between the sidewalk and the curb, which I so lovingly refer to as "The Devil's Strip," is shared between the municipality and the property owner. I don't know how things work in your neck of the woods, but around here, that's called littering....the property owner can an WILL be cited for it, with 2 annual exceptions, when the areas towns have Spring and Fall town wide cleanups. During these brief periods, and ONLY then may large trash, tree limbs, and junk be placed at the curb. At this point, yes, it is a free-for-all, and you can bet your bottom dollar, I am right there. Your 3rd sentence there is absolutely ludicrous, and I have no response.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Well, then I guess you are tight for cash, like many of us, myself included. So why wouldn't you grab what is rightfully yours?
Respectfully, you have no idea..........or perhaps you do. As mentioned above, I would!
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Well, for one, it is nothing near, not even close, not even the same ball park as theft. When you put something at the curb, it becomes part of the public domain, clear as day. That is the way it works. If your city decided to make it a ticket-able offense (which they haven't from the sounds of it), then, and only then, is it a misdemeanor ticket of usually $25 to $100; which is neither close to the possible jail time of petty theft, nor as dangerous as something like speeding.
I hate metal theft! which is why I do take offense to somebody saying that collecting a perfectly legal source of metal, then recycling it (helping keep commodity prices down, helping conserve energy, helping promote local businesses, helping keep landfill costs low by keeping metal out, helping promote recycling at a grassroots level, helping create competition in the world of sustainability, helping save all the strain on the trash man's lower back) is actually a crime.
Taking something from the trash is not a crime, unless it is a secured dumpster, or you are trespassing.
First paragraph is answered above....absolutely theft...and trespassing. As I mentioned, with the exception of advertised special occassions, trash is not allowed to be kept in public domain. Never has been. Not anywhere within a hundred miles of me, anyway. From a handful of movies, I figure this idea was the afore mentioned wet dream of some junk man gone Hollywood.
Paragraph 2....we are on the same page, and though possibly misunderstood, I think on the same side.
Paragraph 3....like I've been saying, you MUST trespass to aquire access to any trash or dumpster.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
The phrase "shoot first, ask questions later" is idiotic. It's the reason children are shot for trick or treating, and scrappers that are perfectly within their rights are murdered. We have the right to bear arms, but WTF would you unscrupulously shoot somebody for digging in your dumpster? A perfectly decent human being, who has parents or children, and who more likely then not would simply leave when told they were trespassing.
Again, with any due respect, if you had a clue as to how secluded my property is, you would not have posted such nonsense. Who is unscrupulous here? That "perfectly decent human being" should have thought of said parents or children prior to trespassing and stealing 15 miles into no-man's land in the middle of the night. Anyone sneaking around out here at night, could not possibly have good intentions of ANY kind.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Yes, that is relevant; It gives you the right to use force if they are trespassing. And that is if you have signs posted telling others to keep out. Even still, why would you kill?
I probably wouldn't. However, getting shot does carry many common side effects, including death.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Taking something from the public domain is not stealing. If you are walking along in the park, and you find a 10 dollar bill folded neatly sitting near a tree. Would you grab it? What if you found it next to the the trashcan in the park? By your logic, taking the bill is stealing; but clearly it is not stealing because it is in the public domain.
Like the park, the garbage curbside collection system is controlled by the government, and the garbage is owned by we the people until it is taken by waste management. That is the reason the police can search your garbage without a warrant, and I can take a perfectly good washing machine for scrap without thinking twice.
You clearly don't grasp my logic. Feeling like a broken record here. Yes the police need a warrant to search trash, as it does not and CANNOT sit on public domain.
Originally Posted by
TheIrrationalist
Wait, this confuses me... How is somebody taking from the trash (which you refuse to touch) taking business away from you, unless you too also collect scrap metal from the trash. Do you, or do you not, collect metal from the curb? If anything, these guys are promoting the idea of metal recycling, which in turn makes the recycling business more visible, which in turn would help more people seek the help of a professional, such as yourself.
c4f5, you may be angry that you have competition, but calling them thieves only spoils your's and every other scrapper's reputation, because it implies that what we do is unlawful. Not everybody here collects scrap from the trash, but I see no reason why, when I'm having a slow day, I can't collect junk for an hour or two.
I wrote up a small explanation of why collecting scrap metal is not against the law.
And a small note; whenever I have the opportunity to politely ask somebody if they wouldn't mind my grabbing a broken appliance at the curb, I do. BUT, I never knock on their door, for fear that somebody with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude will answer with a hot piece of lead... (over a washing machine or broken lamp of all things!)
(...And that is how you write a rant!)
.
Having read many of your posts, I did not think you would be so easily confused, and I hope I have offered at least SOME clarity up to this point. I would not refuse to touch trash. In fact, if such activity were allowed, it could be like Christmas every day. Yes, I DO collect trash from the curb...twice a year when it is permitted, and believe you, me, those days are a madhouse. I once had a part time job as a trash collector in a nearby small town. After gaining the approval of the city council. I raided the town's garbage for all the scrap I could get....legally. It was a pretty sweet gig. Wish I still had it. By the way, every dumpster in that town...every single one sat on private property, in the back yard...NOT in the Devil's Strip. Just like any other town around.
Paragraph 2, for reasons explained multiple times now, is completely bogus.
I ask before rifling through trash,
10 times out of 10....precisely to avoid the "shoot first" thing. If I did not, I could not blame the property owner for feeding me my well deserved lead salad.
Haha, although quite misguided, it was well written, indeed. Kudos.
I hope this clears up any questions as to why I have said the things I've said. I offer no apology, except for possible lack of clarity.
Thank you for your time.
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