Work for me
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Work for me
Yep!
It takes a bit to load, then plays just fine!
We can hear them all too well....My wife said "My ears would be DEAD". LOL
What did you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunkman
That is all of the small steam pipe. I never know when the 5 ton stuff is going to be dropped, so a video with a sonic boom in it has not been shot. When the metal is thrown down the boiler, the entire boiler shakes throughout the 10 stories. Add to it jack hammers mounted on skid steers tearing into concrete pads creates an environment that requires communication by hand signals. Needless to say, I do not need to listen to the radio or watch T.V. after work. Silence is a blessing.
Update: We are moving to the seventh floor and sold over 1,000 tons of metal from the boiler room alone. The boiler room has three more floors to go. After we finish the boiler we will move to the turbine room, then to the switch gear room, and finally to the office building. We hope to get the million gallon fuel storage tank down before the cold weather returns.
As the project progresses we have become more efficient, more knowledgeable, safer, and work better as a team. We have learned the strengths and weaknesses of different members of the crew, know which ones work the best together, and are no longer intimidated by the challenge we face. We seem to be ahead of schedule and this has created another challenge that might present itself in the future, another phase of this project. If so, it will be shared in another thread.
A special thank you to all on the forum that have helped on this quest. Sometimes it has been specific knowledge shared, sometimes it has been perspectives outside the box, and other times it has been personal motivation because of the interest and humor shown by members. It is hard to imagine tackling this project without the help of the forum. In addition to the ideas on the threads several members have shared in PM's and wish to remain anonymous because of liability issues or trade secrets. Thank you to all.
Conceive, believe, achieve - American Olympic Wrestling Team Motto in the 1980's.
Maybe her ears are tender from 15 years of playing bass guitar in front of amplifiers on stage. HUH ????Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot76
As a high schooler that scraps out of my pick up bed and a storage unit, the fact that you are even able to do this with such a plan and evident success is just amazing. I Hope that i can eventually go from collecting cans for a band trip to auctions for insurance money to maybe something of this nature and size. some things that are definitely in your favor is your values that you stick to and your willingness to actually work and not just push papers. Thanks for sharing and i hope to see some pictures of your scrap loads and weights to look at. Thanks again for taking the time to share!
ThatTubaDude - Welcome to the forum. I tried to send you a private message, but since you have not introduced yourself on the forum, you cannot receive messages. Take time to introduce yourself and you will be amazed by the help members will provide. Good luck.
Back at the ranch for the weekend and hope to provide pictures of our progress. We are up to the 6,7, and 8th floors now in the boiler room. We sold the metal in the turbine room to a demolition company and this puts us ahead of schedule. These are pictures of the fifty ton condensers with five inch thick steel. Remember everything cut has to be moved by hand.
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Wanted to give you an idea of the size of some of the steel we are working with. This is an I-beam 2 foot wide, 16 inch flange, that spans 30 foot. The following pictures are the flanges and bolts that hold it in place.
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Some pictures of one of four motors on the eighth floor of the building. These were time consuming and a pain in the a**.
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Patriot wins the picture award I think for scrap jobs. lol.
Keep those updates coming an the pictures!
Sirscrapalot - Starbucks says they are going to start putting religious quotes on cups. The very first one will say, 'Jesus! This cup is expensive!' - Conan O'Brien
Thats some nice scrap metal..... And ps. Have an intro now :)
Hi, Patriot,
Whats the detail with the 4 big motors that you posted the photos of? Looks like an induced draft fan or something...? Interesting to see the old style mechanical "soft start" coupling on the motor shaft. What is the second device on the shaft--the cast iron box with the 2" pipe coming out of it....some sort of water cooling device to keep the heat from the fan away from the motor?
How many hp are these motors?
You mentioned that, with he sale of the metal in the turbine room, you have caught up to your schedule. So the "on time" is doing good. How about the "on budget" part of the equation? How is the return on the scrapping doing-are you making as much as you had hoped to at the outset? Are your manpower levels where you expected them to be?
Sorry about the nosy questions....the job is just so interesting!
Jon.
Sawmilling, sorry for the slow response. I had to go back and check for answers. You are correct on the draft fan and cooling device. Not sure about the HP of the motors since they are gone.
My goal with the project was a 33% return on investment. The last time I did the numbers I thought we were getting an 8% return. Then the real numbers were provided by the company and my ignorance was magnified. To sum everything up, this would be more of a scrappers nightmare than a scrappers dream.
The learning curve is steep as with all my challenges. The positive return can only be seen from a developers perspective. The owner saved money by using his own crew instead of hiring someone to do it. Example: we had a quote from a contractor to remove the metal from the basement and first floor for $ 100,000. These are the areas machines could be used. Above this everything has to be done by hand. We are on the 9th floor and the owner has made money from this perspective. I have learned the value of the project is not in the short term, but long term when the facility will have 220 apartments in it.
To sum everything up, demolition and salvage operations are out of my league. I was lucky to learn this lesson without sacrificing my life's savings to create a company and take on this type of project. Hopefully this information will help someone dreaming about this type of work. Make sure you do your homework. The real dream is the education, not the money in this case.
Thanks, Patriot,
I guess from the big picture, (the end result of 220 apartments in a high end development) the scrapping portion is just the tip of the iceberg, not to mention that it will be a pretty small entry on the overall apartment project cost estimate.
Your boss is getting the building gutted, keeping his crew working, and has a supervisor (you) who has been working his buns off to maximize the efficiency of the whole demolition operation, right through going through the details of torching, training, and return on the scrap generated. Not to mention SAFETY on the site. He's getting a very good deal and has the peace of mind knowing he is pretty close to minimizing the cost of his demolition. He wouldn't get it any cheaper by using a skilled demolition crew under contract!!
Not sure I understand your terminology for return on investment--for a 33% ROI, are you saying you would spend 10$ (in labor, cutting gas and the like) and get $3+ (in metal sales)? Given the amount of difficulty in doing anything on the upper floors, I can see that the scrap metal sales wouldn't cover the cost.
To ease the manual labor on the upper floors, have you investigated using small mobile equipment, like the baby excavators and walk-behind loaders that will fit thru doorways? If you are moving heavy stuff with hand carts the floor loading might be similar. Maybe check with your structural engineers...might be a blessing to have a small machine or two with your guys to help with the heavy handling.
Keep the pics and info coming!! And, by the way, I still wouldn't turn down a truckload of pipe for fencing!! :)
Jon.
For ROI it is how much you make with your dollar spent/invested. For example on 33% ROI: Every dollar I spend I get $1.33 back... If I get less than a dollar back then it would be a negative ROI. I always try to aim for 50% ROI, I spend $5 on a computer tower, I hope to get at least $10 back. From that $10 I need to subtract $5 investment, labor (~.25-.30c per minute), energy (gas/electricity; usually negligable), and any other cost associated with getting that return to see if its worth my time.
Saw - Jiffy is correct. My original goal was to make $ 3.00 profit for every two dollars invested. This is my goal when scrapping farms. The manual labor on this project prevents this.
You are correct about the perspective of a development corporation. The more they can save in demolition costs, the more they can invest in construction.
One concern about using any equipment on the grates is that most grates are moveable. In order to drive anything over them we would need to tack them down to avoid spinning them out of place as we move metal. In addition our crew enjoys the challenge for moving the metal they cut. Yes the crew enjoys challenges as much as I do and if we took this away from them they would rebel. They are so creative it is an education to a neophyte.
Saw, based on your comments one perspective has not been made clear. I am only a consultant, making recommendations and not making the final decisions. When the project started it was made clear, I was at a point in life that I could not sacrifice a life savings by taking responsibility, starting a company, doing pay role, etc. A demolition foreman was hired to make the final decisions. Although the crew was trained on cutting and recommendations on safety were made, I do not get credit for the success of the crew. We are saving the company money, but not as much as I think we could have saved. The best part about this project, I can return to my independent lifestyle regardless of the results. The bad part about this situation, I have been treated so well I will feel bad if the outcome is not positive.
We are well ahead of schedule and therefore working myself out of a job. A friend of the owner has been visiting the job site on a regular basis and made a proposal for another scrap job. We are working out the details and if it comes through, I will post information on it. It is as big, exciting, and challenging as this one. The owner also has another angle that is moving forward and will involve skills as a teacher, just as training the crew on how to read and cut metal. This angle does not relate to scrapping, but in itself will be another challenge.
For those wondering about the value of the forum, two job offers have been made because of this post. Both were turned down for two reasons, I love my freedom and I do not want to be responsible for the decisions others make. Bottom line, scrappers are responsible to themselves and their families and no one else. We follow the law, our values, morals, and no one else.
Wanted to finish the story on the condensers in thread 209. This is where we are at right now.
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The last one is how the condenser sits at this moment. Notice the giant U-bolts that held it up. All of the metal from the condensers was thrown down eight stories by way of the boilers.
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Wanted to also add, the ingenuity of the crew has taught me a lot. They are very creative about how to cut and move these large pieces of metal. On the bottom floors we learned how to cut and read metal. Now they are teaching me things that an engineer would be proud of. The original plant was built in the 1890's and the part we are working on now was finished in 1942. It is a humbling experience to think they did not have the modern inventions and equipment when they built it and now we are scrapping all of their efforts.
We have been struggling with the gas flow on our torches for the last couple of weeks and finally found the solution. Another problem was solved with the same idea, moving the equipment up to the ninth floor. All tools and gas cylinders are being moved to the sixth floor. We cut the cables on the freight elevator and dropped it to the basement. Loud bang which we are getting use to. Then we used saddle clamps on the elevator cable and hooked them up to a two ton electric chain hoist. Gas cylinders, scaffling, welders, etc. are loaded in the elevator car and hoisted up using the electric chain hoist.
Now the rest of the story. I have no knowledge of electricity other than you can fly a kite with a key on it and simulate the big bang. So I asked all the experts their opinions and thought I had an answer. Checked hp, voltage, watts, remote control length, etc. and thought I knew what I was doing. Placed the order and the salesman says, this only comes in three phase. Then I ask them to explain the difference between single phase and three phase. The conclusion is obvious, 3 is better than one. Wrong -
Major mistake, spent a week trying to get it working. Still do not understand electricity, but if I hear the term three phase I am off and running.
Those following the thread have seen the carts we use to move up to a thousand pounds of metal to the opening in the boilers and drop them to the basement. The carts were taking a beating so we got new carts and I designed a handle system for them out of 1/8 in. tubing. We usually tie the carts with rope before dropping the metal in the hole to prevent the cart from following it. Laziness prevented this procedure to be followed on one occasion and the cart fell into the boiler with the metal. Two wheels were destroyed and the cart was bent, but my welds on the 1/8 in. tubing held. This is a picture of the cart returning to the battle front through the freight elevator after it's trip to the basement.
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Interesting. I'm reminded that this project must be like that of any other, including the experience of living life.................as soon as you get it all figured out, it'll be over.
Single phase is what you have in your home. It is actually two phase, but few would understand that.
In "single phase, you have a common, the white wire, and two legs of 120 volts. They are 180 degrees out of phase if you looked at them with an oscilloscope. If you go across the 2 120 volt legs, like with an electric stove, you get 220 or 240 volts. Three phase is simply one common and three hot legs. With the extra phase, you get more "oomph" for heavier motors and equipment. It should pose no problems for you.
Patriot76: Did my explanation make any sense?
The Spin is smart. The Spin makes my brain hurt when he speaks sometimes.
The Spin is spintastic.
I need more pictures Patriot. An none of this.."I've been to busy to take photos for you. Safety and all that" jazz! ;)
Hope the job is still going well, I have some cold ones still standing by for the vacation you'll need after this gig.
Sirscrapalot - Just saw a FOX 5 news truck go by my house. I'ma be famous!
I think I am the one in the back...
Made it back to the ranch last night for a little 4th of July vacation and just checking the web. Spin your explanation made more sense than what the electricians told me. When they were talking it sounded like a foreign language.
Okay no excuses Sir. Hope to have some nice pictures in the near future. But I will provide a couple of pictures of a project I was asked to look at. It is a swing railroad bridge across the Missouri River. Lot's of possibilities for it's future. I was asked how it could be scrapped and responded with an idea of using heavy equipment (excavators and cranes) on a barge and using a barge to ferry the metal to shore or down the river. It is hoped it is not scrapped and several other ideas are being discussed to preserve it. Keep you posted. If it is scrapped, it might be the next adventure.
Who knows, might have to take a barge all the way down the Missouri River and get a tug boat to haul me up the east coast to have a beverage from the hurricane cooler. Only time will tell. Now that would be a big adventure. Doubt if the wife will allow me to pull that one off, at least during hurricane season.
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My brother used to manufacture truckable barges for this very use that could be connected together to make a larger barge. He passed so he is not an option for more info. I thought you might want to know in case you were unaware.
I continue to enjoy your on going projects. Mike
Thank you for the information and that would be a valuable idea regardless of what they do with the bridge. I am sorry to here about your brother, but it sounds like he lived an interesting life.Quote:
Originally Posted by miked
Once again the SMF Consulting Services have risen to the challenge to provide answers. Even if the bridge is not scrapped, this idea will work for the other things that are being discussed. I am not free to discuss the other ideas, but when a decision is made it will be provided here. Thank you again and happy 4th of July to Everyone.
Patriot, I was part of the film crew for Discovery Channel when they demolished the Memorial Bridge in Bismarck. Was supposed to be a reality show about guys who blow stuff up. It never really took off though. A friend of mine from Jamestown did the shearing after it was down. The video shoot was interesting. Up in baskets in the North Dakota wind setting explosive charges. Probably one of the funniest shoots I've ever been on. After it was down, they used barges to pick the scrap out of the water.
NDDOT Video: Memorial BRIDGE DEMOLITION Bismarck, ND # 2 - YouTube
Edit: in the second camera angle you can see the bridge that the crane was parked on when they were setting the charges. Parked the crane on the new bridge, then hoisted the demolition man and myself over to the old bridge. 45mph winds, and I'm afraid of heights. Yikers, I remember being very scared while the basket was swinging back and forth and banging on the bridge. Good experience tho.
Thanks Pjost. That's is neat and a great experience. If this bridge becomes a reality, I might have to have you create a SMF documentary. Once again valuable information provided by the forum. I will be contacting you in the near future for information on another project in the works. It is to be released in August and if it flies, you will be a valuable resource.
We are lucky to be in the mid-west, otherwise on the coast they would still be doing a environmental study on the affects of demolition on the homeless pigeons and their migration patterns to Mexico. Thanks again.
HEY! HEY!
On my coast, well Sandbar..since both sides are coastal...It'd be turtles an..some other kind of bird!
This is why we need a new bridge from where I am to Pea Island. Bridge is over 30 years old, was designed to last 15. lol. Silly groups won't let another be built. Could build the new bridge with minimal impact on the wild life.
I think NC is going to do it regardless of the groups. It's a national wild life refuge, so I'm sure the Rangers, an everyone else involved in saving the turtles on a stat/fed level will be careful not to upset the turtles.
I'm down with saving the wild life, not down with using a busted old bridge, that could bust sending a few people into the cold depths of the Atlantic. They had to do emergency work on the bridge earlier this year, cause three of the pylons weren't touching ground anymore. Trapped several hundred folks on the wrong side of the bridge, that work down there, but live up here near me.
Patriot I eagerly await more updates, an news of your upcoming adventures.
Till then, I have 2 more coolers to empty.
Stay safe out there buddy!
Sirscrapalot - Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. - MLK, JR.
Yes there is a huge excavator behind the pile.
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We are on the top floor of the boiler room. In addition to this section of the project, we have three other areas called the office area, the turbine room, and the switch gear room. This is a series of pictures shot throughout the salvage operation.
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And now what it looks like today, two weeks after starting.
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This is our next challenge, a tank that extends 30 foot up from the roof of a ten story building. This is the beginning of this project and it is hoped the story can be shared like the last posts.
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This is the view from the roof top. The roof top will be a community patio serviced by a glass enclosed elevator for this view.
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Back at the ranch for a short break and wanted to share an example of our lack of a learning curve. Earlier in this post the fact that we plugged the boiler with metal and had to clear it by hand was made. These pictures show we did not learn our lesson the first time as we did the same thing to the other boiler. The second boiler was much worse as we estimate we had close to 25 tons of steel plugging it before we realized it. It was a tricky operation to cut the 2 ft. beams and round headers that were three in. thick. Big relief when the boiler opened up and released the metal. Very noisy as well. Sorry for the limited pictures but for some reason pictures were not a priority when sorting this out.
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