Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Porsche993 started this thread.
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Oct 2021
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Dismantler refining directly possible?

    Hello, New here but have been in the scrap business for over 15 years. I have been doing research for the last year and trying to answer a question I have. Is it possible for a auto dismantler to go straight to a refiner? Seems most dismantlers sell to "middleman" but I dont understand why. Why doesent a dismantler (know of 1) go and get a contract and send his scrap cats straight to the refiner to get refining value instead of "middleman price"?



  2. #2
    CopperMiner's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Greater Montreal
    Posts
    90
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked 58 Times in 34 Posts
    By refiner, do you mean the steel foundry or the guy who recover precious metals from cats? If it is the steel foundry, it is plausible that they require carcasses to go by a shredder first. For the cats, I don't know. An exclusive regional territory? In both cases, you can always call them directly and ask why. If you have the volume, you never know...

  3. #3
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche993 View Post
    Hello, New here but have been in the scrap business for over 15 years. I have been doing research for the last year and trying to answer a question I have. Is it possible for a auto dismantler to go straight to a refiner? Seems most dismantlers sell to "middleman" but I dont understand why. Why doesent a dismantler (know of 1) go and get a contract and send his scrap cats straight to the refiner to get refining value instead of "middleman price"?
    The answer you seek grasshopper first off there's nothing to stop you from dealing with the precious metals refinery direct, if you have 10,000 pounds of materiel and your capable of meeting this quota every couple of months. the refinery's will welcome you as a customer.

    The smaller scrap yards who purchase from walk ins will sell their inventory before meeting the necessary quota to deal with a refinery direct, for the simple reason the precious metals market is very volatile. if you hold your inventory to long and the market craters your screwed.

    Removing the precious metals wash coat is relatively easy, I'm sitting on several thousands of dollars worth, the fluctuation in those graphs below show volatility which is the reason I'm unable to find a buyer.

    Couldn't even buy a loaf of bread with my inventory of precious metals sponge's, would have been further ahead selling the cats. And I'm not even sure that's a good idea at the moment.

    As the dominoes begin to fall, Record China Defaults in Focus as Modern Land Misses Payment

    One year graph for rhodium, platinum and palladium.









    .
    Last edited by alloy2; 10-27-2021 at 02:54 AM.
    New scrap forum uptime 100% http://scrappers.freeforums.net/

  4. #4
    mikeinreco's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TENNESSEE
    Posts
    4,823
    Thanks
    1,248
    Thanked 4,930 Times in 2,294 Posts
    Another answer to original question is the "middleman" is just the easier option

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to mikeinreco for This Post:


  6. #5
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeinreco View Post
    Another answer to original question is the "middleman" is just the easier option
    He could sell his cats to our resident buyer - APA.
    Last edited by alloy2; 10-27-2021 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #6
    Porsche993 started this thread.
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Oct 2021
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Thank you for that info, So its not possible to find a refiner that will do a 1 off lot? Ive spoken to Legends Smelting and it seemed like they would but I dont know how much trust I shall have recommending them....

  8. #7
    mikeinreco's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TENNESSEE
    Posts
    4,823
    Thanks
    1,248
    Thanked 4,930 Times in 2,294 Posts
    You may want to check on goldrefingforum.com

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to mikeinreco for This Post:


  10. #8
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche993 View Post
    Thank you for that info, So its not possible to find a refiner that will do a 1 off lot? Ive spoken to Legends Smelting and it seemed like they would but I dont know how much trust I shall have recommending them....
    To the best of my knowledge there are only two smelters on the USA than handle the platinum group metals, regardless of their claim Legend is not one of them.

    Kennecott has a copper smelter in Utah where they inject scrap e-waste circuit boards into the furnace, boards are ground up into powders assay taken before smelting. Customers is paid on assay.

    In the news, Kennecott, https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news...-at-kennecott/


    https://www.sibanyestillwater.com/business/americas/pgm-operations-americas/columbus-metallurgical-complex/

    https://metallix.com/




    Last edited by alloy2; 10-27-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #9
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    For those holding catalytic inventory or having a shipment at the smelter being processed were payments are made at the end of processing based on spot $$$.

    The Chinese financial troubles are going to have serious consequences globally.

    We've been looking to purchase a new truck and the dealership lots are almost bare.

    The demand for these metals is down.

    Silver 24.04 -0.11
    Platinum 1008.00 -18.00
    Palladium 1890.00 -48.00
    Rhodium 13300.00 +50.00

  12. #10
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Lithium

    How to go from "competing" with Tesla to almost disappearing in less than a year

  13. #11
    Porsche993 started this thread.
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Oct 2021
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Appreciate the info, So I take it there is a expectancy of the metals to be dropping in value?
    Are there any cat buyers that work with refiners on this forum that would like to chime in?
    The "middlemen" should know if a 1 off sale for refining is possible.

  14. #12
    mikeinreco's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TENNESSEE
    Posts
    4,823
    Thanks
    1,248
    Thanked 4,930 Times in 2,294 Posts
    My question is if you have one converter why bother

  15. #13
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche993 View Post
    Appreciate the info, So I take it there is a expectancy of the metals to be dropping in value?
    Are there any cat buyers that work with refiners on this forum that would like to chime in?
    The "middlemen" should know if a 1 off sale for refining is possible.
    Lets play the numbers game, I'll pay you by the numbers inscribed on your cat.

    That is the biggest scam going, city cats that spend their usable life on asphalt will assay with a higher value than sister cats which spent a lifetime on dusty rural gravel roads,

    By the time those cats purchased by the numbers hit the refinery they've had the comb removed, shipped in super sacks. refinery works from assay results not numbers.

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...-highway-dirt/

    If you try really hard, you can refine gold out of garbage old computer parts. But that's not the weirdest place you can find precious metals, not by a long shot. If you're looking for platinum, for example, you need look no further than the dirt on the side of a major roadway.
    Last edited by alloy2; 10-27-2021 at 07:25 PM.

  16. #14
    CopperMiner's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Greater Montreal
    Posts
    90
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked 58 Times in 34 Posts
    We have here a smelter that recover precious metals from e-waste, but not sure if and how they pay. They handle palladium, platinum, gold and silver, but I never heard if they take cats or the typical circuit board stuff.

  17. #15
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CopperMiner View Post
    We have here a smelter that recover precious metals from e-waste, but not sure if and how they pay. They handle palladium, platinum, gold and silver, but I never heard if they take cats or the typical circuit board stuff.
    E-waste contains mostly copper, this is mixed in with the main melt where its cast into copper anodes which contain a small amount of precious metals. The anodes are process ( refined ) in an electylitic cell called a copper parting cell.

    I do this on a small scale.


  18. The Following User Says Thank You to alloy2 for This Post:


  19. #16
    CopperMiner's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Greater Montreal
    Posts
    90
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked 58 Times in 34 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by alloy2 View Post
    E-waste contains mostly copper, this is mixed in with the main melt where its cast into copper anodes which contain a small amount of precious metals. The anodes are process ( refined ) in an electylitic cell called a copper parting cell.

    I do this on a small scale.

    It make a lot of sense. I am glad to learn that. I always thought that copper was more a secondary goal or a by-product of the circuit board recycling process and they were more interested to the silver and tin soldering, brass and the gold fingers.

  20. #17
    jeb1212's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Suburban Philly
    Posts
    71
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 55 Times in 35 Posts
    Reldan is a refiner of platinum and palladium.

    https://reldan.com/solutions/

  21. #18
    armygreywolf's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germantown, WI
    Posts
    1,080
    Thanks
    193
    Thanked 2,059 Times in 647 Posts
    alloy, first...there are more than two. Hell one of them I live within an hour of. Second, those of you that think metals are going down? Do you think that because China is having a hard time digesting some debt conversions? Lets say thats the case. Most platinum is used in Chemistry anyways, not automotive. Automotive has been a relatively closed system of recycling for decades until very recently. And palladium, well the highest level of use is in modern high frequency multidirectional antennas, both in ground to satellite and tower to cell phone. (also the cell phone has palladium too). In fact the advent of 5g globally means palladium has seen an exponential increase in use. And rhodium? Well, pzev vehicles, tier 4 final emissions in trucks and prime movers, all of that uses rhodium. Gold is always a hedge, so its rise really does seem to stem from economic inflation. All of the above said, if you think anything is going to trend back down, let me know when you want to sell. Look around everybody, this is the only time when exports are much lower than expected worldwide and yet our commodities are still higher than average. Copper should be your biggest indicator of whats on the horizon for everything else.
    WI ITAD LLC, IT Liquidation Services, we remarket, buy and sell scrap electronics No customer too large or small!

  22. #19
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jeb1212 View Post
    Reldan is a refiner of platinum and palladium.

    https://reldan.com/solutions/
    No shortage of refinery;s that will accept and process the platinum group of metals, the source you provided does not process catalytic converters.

    This screenshot of from their web site.


  23. #20
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,775
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked 2,294 Times in 991 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by armygreywolf View Post
    alloy, first...there are more than two. Hell one of them I live within an hour of. Second, those of you that think metals are going down? Do you think that because China is having a hard time digesting some debt conversions? Lets say thats the case. Most platinum is used in Chemistry anyways, not automotive. Automotive has been a relatively closed system of recycling for decades until very recently. And palladium, well the highest level of use is in modern high frequency multidirectional antennas, both in ground to satellite and tower to cell phone. (also the cell phone has palladium too). In fact the advent of 5g globally means palladium has seen an exponential increase in use. And rhodium? Well, pzev vehicles, tier 4 final emissions in trucks and prime movers, all of that uses rhodium. Gold is always a hedge, so its rise really does seem to stem from economic inflation. All of the above said, if you think anything is going to trend back down, let me know when you want to sell. Look around everybody, this is the only time when exports are much lower than expected worldwide and yet our commodities are still higher than average. Copper should be your biggest indicator of whats on the horizon for everything else.
    The next time you post garbage as above cite your sources or it didn't happen.

    To the best of my knowledge there are two smelters in the USA that process catalytic converters, Metallix and Stillwater in Montana

    The converter comb that supports the precious metals wash coat is made from alumina, during the high heat of the smelting process the alumina becomes a flux which enhances the smelting process.

    During the smelting process base metals report the the flux as oxides, Cupellation base metals report to the cupel.





    Last edited by alloy2; 10-28-2021 at 02:31 AM.


  24. Similar threads on the Scrap Metal Forum

    1. PMR catalytic converter recycling "deal directly with the refiner"
      By iscrapanything in forum Scrap Metal Questions and Answers
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 02-21-2015, 08:51 PM
    2. This thead is a question - Sell aluminum cans directly to a smelter?
      By stevea41 in forum Scrap Metal Tips and Advice
      Replies: 16
      Last Post: 07-19-2014, 11:45 PM
    3. Florida | For Sale - Gold refining lot
      By parrothead in forum Scrappers Classifieds
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 03-15-2014, 01:09 AM
    4. Looking for a refiner to sell to directly for E-waste
      By happyisthealero in forum General Electronics Recycling
      Replies: 14
      Last Post: 08-14-2013, 05:43 PM

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

 
Browse the Most Recent Threads
On SMF In THIS CATEGORY.





OR

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Scrap Metal Forum

    The Scrap Metal Forum is the #1 scrap metal recycling community in the world. Here we talk about the scrap metal business, making money, where we connect with other scrappers, scrap yards and more.

SMF on Facebook and Twitter

Twitter Facebook