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  1. #21
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    Thanks Charlie, actually quite clear. The reason I ask is I have a large hammer mill sitting here doing nothing. Think I'll fix it up in the near future and give it a shot to see what happens.



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    Devo, if you have the time and material to waste it sounds like a great project. There's a lot of info online and youtube has a lot of videos. Some I found imformative were of "water separation tables". Thery are similar to the ones gold prospectors use. A combination of water and vibration causes separation. Lots of the videos on youtube of the wire granulators would make you believe that you get nearly 100% recovery which is not true. It seems to take some practice to get the set up right. HighVoltage has the real knowledge on this stuff. Like most things knowledge is not free. Keep us posted on you progress, Mike.
    Last edited by miked; 02-08-2012 at 10:41 AM.
    "Profit begins when you buy NOT when you sell." {quote passed down to me from a wise man}

    Now go beat the copper out of something, Miked

  3. #23
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    Charlie unless you are using a very special separation or are stripping you will be surprised as to how much copper sits in the waste. I have seen, I.e. toured, plants where they told me their machine gets 99.9% of the copper. I asked them to stick their hand n the waste bin. Never fails, every time a big old electric should shock.

    Expect your system to have 2-5% copper in the waste. After looking at many systems I have yet to be surprised at less.
    Jim Dwyer
    President/Founder High Voltage Processing
    www.highvoltagepro.com
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked View Post
    Devo, if you have the time and material to waste it sounds like a great project. There's a lot of info online and youtube has a lot of videos. Some I found imformative were of "water separation tables". Thery are similar to the ones gold prospectors use. A combination of water and vibration causes separation. Lots of the videos on youtube of the wire granulators would make you believe that you get nearly 100% recovery which is not true. It seems to take some practice to get the set up right. HighVoltage has the real knowledge on this stuff. Like most things knowledge is not free. Keep us posted on you progress, Mike.

    Thanks Mike, I will indeed keep you guys posted. While I actually have neither the time , the money or the materials to waste right now, I know I need to plan for the future if I plan to do this as a business.

    I haven't looked into the separation aspect yet, but my gut tells me it should be possible to do without an engineering degree. The copper should weigh a lot more than the plastic so it should be possible to recover a lot with the right "vibration" set up. That said I'm sure I'll end up being shocked at how difficult it really is to do.

    I like the idea of having a hammer mill, since it could be used for many other things as well - shredding aluminum, plastic volume reduction etc.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked View Post
    Lots of the videos on youtube of the wire granulators would make you believe that you get nearly 100% recovery which is not true. It seems to take some practice to get the set up right. HighVoltage has the real knowledge on this stuff. Like most things knowledge is not free. Keep us posted on you progress, Mike.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Voltage Processing View Post
    Charlie unless you are using a very special separation or are stripping you will be surprised as to how much copper sits in the waste. I have seen, I.e. toured, plants where they told me their machine gets 99.9% of the copper. I asked them to stick their hand n the waste bin. Never fails, every time a big old electric should shock.

    Expect your system to have 2-5% copper in the waste. After looking at many systems I have yet to be surprised at less.
    Thanks for the input guys. It seems that the two of you have spent quite a bit of time watching youtube and visiting the machines that our suppliers competition produces....this may have jaded your views. You've seen the rest, now take a look at the best! Lol.

    In all sincerity though - Miked - it does take practice to get the right set up. Fortunately this company has been designing and producing these machines since 1980 and at this point, they have it figured out.

    High Voltage - These machines do in fact utilize very special seperation techniques. The pulverizer (turbo) is patented and can be found in no other granulator machine. This allows for optimal seperation. As I stated earlier, there is dust that is produced but 2-5% is nowhere near an accurate estimate. I'm a little confused by the electric shock comment....would high levels of copper dust in the waste bin cause a shock? I spent about 20 hours on two different machines in scrap yards last week: routinely scooped handful of "fluff" out of the back to see if I could find copper dust, never once got shocked?

  6. #26
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    If there is enough dust in there you will get shocked. I used to get shocked when I put my hand in the copper drum at the end of the production line as well. We ground the drum now to prevent that.

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    I will agree that 2%-5% is not accurate. As far as getting shocked, I have never had that happen putting my hand in the waste, now in the copper bin that's another story.

    Charliemaws
    I have no knowledge of any patents, but you should already now that Midwest Atlantic is not the only granulator with a turbo incorporated into the chop line. Guidetti the company one of maws engineers use to work for has multiple systems with a turbo.
    I make cents on the pound, the name of the game is VOLUME

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  9. #28
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    I am aware that there are other systems with a turbo incorporated. I was under the impression that there is a patented portion of the turbo in the machine we distribute though. It may just be the Zig Zag feature that is unique however. I am still learning so take it easy on me. It's funny that you mention that little story about Guidetti because I have heard from several people that Mr. Guidetti was an employee of our manufacturer until he decided to start his own company many years ago.....interesting discrepency and I'm not sure which if any are true! hahaha.

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    Nope not the zig zag separator either. Maybe just the name has a patent. Makes no difference to me.

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    So the Guidetti machine has a zig zag feature? I have yet to personally see their machines in action but all of the videos I've seen do not have this feature. It's a feature that allows larger granules to exit the machine after leaving the granulator. The material that is still attached to insulation and finer wire is sent on to the turbo for further processing and then onto the seperation board. In the end, there are three products: the larger granules of copper from the zig zag, the finer copper from the seperation table and the fluff. If there are other machines with this feature, I'd be very interested in learning more about them. Do you know where I could find more info? Thanks Rewire.

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    Guess I should have researched a little more before typing....just found the Wire series that has a "Zig Zag gravity seperator where heavy chops are seperated from the tailings".

    Rewire - do you own one of these machines or have you seen them in action? I'd be interested in hearing about your experience.

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    Truck mount the granulator and offer it as a service like paper shredding...

  14. #33
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    This is some good info. Thanks.

    To those of you that are operating granulators... Are you buying the insulated wire "as is" from other dealers and estimating the recovery? Or are you chopping and then charging a chop fee, cents per lb. or something like that, and then buying the recovered copper from the customer/dealer? I'm sure some are doing both as the guys we sell our insulated to are doing this with us. What is the best way to handle this?

    We are considering getting into this because we are tired of baling the insulated and sending it off to a chopper- we are fairly certain that the chopper is getting the better end of the deal $. We probably purchase about 100,000 lbs of No 1 insulated a year so would need to step that up to justify a granulator--buy from other local dealers, etc. Thinking about one of the smaller/medium sized hand feed MG systems (500 lbs/hr)... Anyone have any info on those systmens or other manufacturers? How much electricity does a small/medium sized sytsem use? Any info is appreciated. Good, Bad, Ugly...

    Thanks in advance.

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    TNscrapper, I'm not qualified to answer your questions but that won't stop me poking my nose in. I suggest contacting one of our member/buyers, High Voltage Processing to see if he can help you with your wire. He operates several granulators and buys a lot of wire. Mike.

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  17. #35
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    Would a 'floatation pool' work in separating the plastic from the copper?

    Its a small pool/drum/container full of slightly soapy water.
    As the copper/insulation mix is fed into the pool, compressed air is forced up into the water & as the mix hits it, the copper drops as its heavy & small & the plastic floats as its larger & light & a higher surface area.

    The bubbles to attach to the plastic, making it even lighter.

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    eesakiwi, soapy water bubbles are used in other seperation materials so there is a possiblity it would be workable. Lots currently use a vibrating table with water sprayed on top to seperate after being run through a hammer mill. Mike.

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    We are toying with a couple designs using various solvents. I'm hoping we can solve it as there is good money in both recovery of the dust and the sale of clean plastic.

  20. #38
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    tnscrapper - When I purchase insulated wire from dealers it has to be presorted prior to payment, I dig down a little to see if its consistently sorted, and weigh/pay. If not I give them couple options, and go from there. I have a hand feed machine now, and have out grown it. In my opinion I would not purchase a hand feed machine again, simply for labor purposes. You can get an animated line that has a preshredder incorporated into the line, magnetic conveyor feeds the line. the shredder is programmed to machines specs and keeps the chop line running efficiently. Operator can preload hopper start the line, and go run a baler or shear for hour or two. Depending on the series of chop line, some also enable you to cut back time on machine setup. You still have to sort the plated from the unplated but the time spent setting up the machine for chopping different recovery rates is cut back. Preventative matinence is superior on all machines, only takes a minute for someone with no common sense to damage equipment. the upside of a hand feed is the operator will most likely see out of place material prior to feeding. Either direction you go use a preshredder, makes life easier. hope this helps,

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  22. #39
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    HIGHVOLTAGE do u buy bare bright or just insulated.

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    And do u give free tours of your facility?lol... I would love to see a real deal set up.


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