Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 87

A Scrappers Dream; Cutting Torch

| Tools and Equipment
  1. #1
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,693
    Thanks
    9,689
    Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,057 Posts

    A Scrappers Dream; Cutting Torch

    Some topics from the original thread are extensive and deserve their own space. When researching gas torches on this forum I saw threads on acetylene, propane, acetylene/propane, petrogen, and other gases that would fall into one of these three categories. Discussions about all three systems could not be found in one location. If this discussion was buried within the original thread, no one be able to benefit from it. Information on propane and liquid oxygen was discussed in the Watertank thread, but if you were just searching propane/oxygen torches you would not have found it.

    Therefore this thread was started to discuss this topic, share personal opinions/experiences, and to allow the comparison of my research with the thoughts of others. The goal is to create a complete library of advantages and disadvantages of the different gas torch options. Please chime in.



    Motivation for this thread came from research on petrogen torches, something being considered for the power plant. Research highlighted two companies in China (Taiwan and Beijing), one in India, and one in the U.S. (Petrogen.Inc) that produce systems that operate on gasoline. I would like to know if others exist.

    These torches have been used in the Chinese and Russian oil fields for decades and now used by the U.S. military and fire departments throughout the nation. Time to light the torches.

  2. The Following 7 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:



  3. #2
    corycouch's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    jonesboro ar
    Posts
    1,405
    Thanks
    3,767
    Thanked 1,987 Times in 746 Posts
    I see a future sticky, I use acetylene and a plasma cutter. Since I've gotten the plasma the only thing I use the torch for is when the leads for the plasma won't reach
    expect the worst and hope for the best
    cory couch
    c & c recycling
    JUNKERS AND CLUNKERS
    (870) 897-6484

  4. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by corycouch:


  5. #3
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,693
    Thanks
    9,689
    Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,057 Posts
    What size plasma do you have, what is it's cutting limit, and what wattage does it require to run? I am researching these as well for the project. Used one in a welding shop a couple years ago and was impressed. Now that I am spending someone else's money, it might be a reality.

  6. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  7. #4
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,693
    Thanks
    9,689
    Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,057 Posts
    Cory, dumb question but what is a sticky? I hope it is better than a wedgie.
    Last edited by Patriot76; 02-02-2014 at 03:02 PM.

  8. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  9. #5
    corycouch's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    jonesboro ar
    Posts
    1,405
    Thanks
    3,767
    Thanked 1,987 Times in 746 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot76 View Post
    Cory, dumb question but what is a sticky?
    A sticky is a thread that is so great and full of information that it gets a sticky
    On the top off every section the little yellow tabs represents a sticky
    Last edited by corycouch; 02-02-2014 at 03:18 PM.

  10. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by corycouch:


  11. #6
    corycouch's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    jonesboro ar
    Posts
    1,405
    Thanks
    3,767
    Thanked 1,987 Times in 746 Posts
    Patriot, mine is a esab 850 I believe, cuts 1/4 really easy runs on a 220, I've got a 30ft extension cord for it. The only problem with plasmas in my opinion is portability and consumables, tips, baffles, diffusers, and the ceramic head. They last a good while but are expensive to replace. The cart in the picture I picked up at harbor freight for $80

    Even using the plasma for several days in a row cutting tanks I didn't notice an increase in my electric bill. Also in my experience a plasma will cut way faster than a torch also on thinner metals anyway, I don't have much experience with anything over one inch



  12. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by corycouch:


  13. #7
    lousypirate's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Marne, MI
    Posts
    445
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 287 Times in 138 Posts

    A Scrappers Dream Cutting Torch

    if/when I get my torch setup, I will be going with oxy propane. I do not need to braze, nor do I see the need to braze.

    plasma is only good for fabrication imo, torches are cheaper to run and more portable. plasma for precision and a fairly clean edge to use for fabrication.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to lousypirate for This Post:


  15. #8
    sawmilleng's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Central Kootenays, BC, Canada
    Posts
    861
    Thanks
    713
    Thanked 1,193 Times in 518 Posts
    The cost of the plasma consumables can be high, although I don't know the actual comparison to flame-type cutting (Oxyacetylene, etc.)

    I picked up on a link that I believe that one of the heavy burning guys on here posted--how to make your own plasma cutter. In that link, the author briefly mentioned to choose a torch head that had "reasonable" consumables costs, and he had chosen Panasonic. I didn't even know Panasonic built anything heavier than a hard drive arm so I looked it up on eBay...Yes, they make a plasma torch head and the consumables are inexpensive. They look like steel rather than copper so they may be doing something different than the North American plasma guys.

    I have dealt with plasma at a shop where they did lots of cutting with...less than skilled guys. Found out why management at the place just hated plasma, even though the shop boss loved it--and proved it by pouring out the work. But, when I was there, a guy dropped a chunk of metal on a plasma hose. That hose has several wires in it plus the heavy wire was integrated with the air hose. Severed them all. The shop boss did a temporary fix but a replacement hose was quite a bit--nearly $1000. Not as easy to fix as a cutting torch hose.

    As with everything else, it is training...a monkey on a torch can ruin it in no time...same with a plasma cutter.

    There's also a thread here where BigBurchino had a race with a torch guy in cutting cars in half in a yard. The yard had never even heard of plasma cutters. He beat the torch by miles.

    Maybe rent a big plasma cutter and see how the guys like it.

    Jon.

    PS- plasma will cut just about anything. Stainless, etc. An oxyacetylene torch won't, since it relies on the fact that steel reacts with oxygen when it is hot enough, and will burn on its own--try shutting off the acetylene when you get into a cut and you'll see for yourself.
    Last edited by sawmilleng; 02-02-2014 at 04:06 PM.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to sawmilleng for This Post:


  17. #9
    Mick's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Palermo, Me
    Posts
    3,407
    Thanks
    363
    Thanked 3,083 Times in 1,326 Posts
    This thread is made a "sticky". I'm also proposing, since this is a major project with much potential for learning, that the various threads about it be grouped in a collection of links in one thread. That thread would become a sticky for reference. Instead of filling this thread with responses, please send me, mechanic688 or parrothead your response in a PM. This thread would then be "unstuck". Patriot76, would you keep track of the associated threads that would be included? Or hit the "Thanks" icon instead of a PM.
    People may laugh at me, but that's ok. I laugh all the way to the bank.

  18. The Following 8 Users say Thank You for This Post by Mick:


  19. #10
    armygreywolf's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germantown, WI
    Posts
    1,051
    Thanks
    188
    Thanked 2,024 Times in 632 Posts
    Patriot. There are really only three options when it comes to cutting metal more than 4 inches thick. Brute force (what is considered a heavy duty cutting outfit) running at 90 lbs o2 and 45lbs acetylene, or in some cases even higher. This can be dangerous as hell so someone with experience in cutting in the mining and or shipbuilding field is a definite plus. I asked my grandfather about this, a lifelong ironworker and he has this to say.

    "It isn't so much can you cut thick steel, it's can you blow out the slag so your not wasting time on making multiple passes. And it's dangerous to have to come back and nip at something you should have got on the first try. I wouldn't even think of using a torch to cut a boiler or pressure vessel, that kind of steel has alot of carbon and will be difficult work, you will want to use a carbon rod or oxy-plasma cutter."

    I have alot of experience in this field and I have to agree, plasma cutters are out for sure. You're going to want everyone set up with oxy-propane on heavy duty torch rigs with all hoses in protective sleeves. You want ONE guy who is experienced in gouging or the use of a carbon rod cutter to make the cuts that give access to your other torch people. Let me do some digging I will post a few rigs you should look into. There was a oxy-plasma rig I used in Iraq when I was a wrecker operator to cut armored doors and hinges...unbelievably powerful, can cut a sledgehammer head long ways in under five seconds. The bad:uses ALOT of oxygen, the consumables (rods) are not terribly expensive but all cutting should be planned by someone who knows what they are doing to minimize cost. I want to say a carbon rod cutter is the best way to go, but that's a gouging tool...which in itself might be the best option, after all often the best place to cut is the weld.

  20. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by armygreywolf:


  21. #11
    armygreywolf's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germantown, WI
    Posts
    1,051
    Thanks
    188
    Thanked 2,024 Times in 632 Posts
    And again, if you tackle this, there's a certain way to setting up outfits and operators, every torch operator should have a gofer, the guy who keeps track of his hose, his tanks, his cold water...replaces his consumables, especially demo where speed is everything, that torch needs to be cutting at least 95% of the time it's lit. I'd have a shift lead, a guy that sets up all the consumables and tanks to be used on the jobs. Another guy is basically a demolition engineer and his job is to segregate and identify particular metals and alloys then the order by which the facility is dismantled. Torch crews, material handling crews... No reason why a train car couldn't be filled every single day, I'd expect 200+ tons a day from even a small outfit. Ten guys...no problem.

  22. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by armygreywolf:


  23. #12
    sawmilleng's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Central Kootenays, BC, Canada
    Posts
    861
    Thanks
    713
    Thanked 1,193 Times in 518 Posts
    Greywolf,

    Your point about having a guy "demolition engineer" worrying about how the place is cut down: I'd say that's pretty important, so the guys who are busy thinking about burning don't pull a Wile-E-Coyote and cut loose the floor they're sitting on!!

    Jon.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to sawmilleng for This Post:


  25. #13
    armygreywolf's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germantown, WI
    Posts
    1,051
    Thanks
    188
    Thanked 2,024 Times in 632 Posts
    Pretty much an engineering project even if it is deconstruction. Agreed.

  26. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by armygreywolf:


  27. #14
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    759
    Thanks
    1,066
    Thanked 1,204 Times in 467 Posts
    If you run into a lot of stainless, a plasma cutter would benefit you. I bought my Hpertherm for a project requiring me to cut up and remove a stainless spiral freezer conveyer from a chicken processing plant. The plasma made it easy when a standard oxy/acetylene torch would have been impossible. A downfall of the plasma cutter is that the metal needs to be pretty clean. You can't cut through much rust, dirt, or even thick paint because you're relying on the ability of the metal to conduct electricity to start the arc. A plus for my machine is that it can run on single phase or 3 phase and autoadjusts to several different voltages.

    For the dirty jobs, I use a liquid oxygen and propane rig. I didn't get to cut with it myself, but watched a lot. I was taking down a flat water tank and was running the excavator. I would pick up the side of the tank and the cutter was cutting the side from the floor. I had to lift it to get it out of the water that stood 6 inches deep all day every day. He could cut a foot every 8 seconds (I counted too many times) through thick rust and gunk with the water draining off just ahead of him.

    Also, check out Oxylance for your real thick jobs. They have several cutting rods, bars, tubes options on their website. I didn't get the project, but I researched them when I was bidding one with 6" steel to be cut. They are close to me in Birmingham, AL.

  28. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Pnutfarmer:


  29. #15
    armygreywolf's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Germantown, WI
    Posts
    1,051
    Thanks
    188
    Thanked 2,024 Times in 632 Posts
    The carbon rod cutter covers non oxidizing alloys, the plasma cutter is a rather limited machined designed for fabrication environments except when you go big..but then industrial machines can cost 100K

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to armygreywolf for This Post:


  31. #16
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Feb 2012
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    5,711
    Thanks
    6,798
    Thanked 3,449 Times in 1,983 Posts
    Using a colon, or a semi-colon on the sub thread titles might help better explain their intent. When I first saw this title, and even after reading the initial post, I actually thought you were informing us of a "scrappers dream torch" : )
    Last edited by Bear; 02-04-2014 at 09:31 AM.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Bear for This Post:


  33. #17
    eesakiwi's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    2,496
    Thanks
    2,695
    Thanked 2,418 Times in 1,187 Posts
    I have used 6-8mm dia carbon 'arcair' gouging rods for weld preps before.

    Plasma cutter for several days. I could make the consumables last 5 times as long as anyone else.....
    Oxy/acetylene & Oxy/propane for years.
    Used 'GO' Arc welding rods with DC power to cut metal.

    Never used a Petrogen setup, but I suggested to our local scrap buyer & it got indifferent replys/results.

    I have never used a 'iron powder addition' setup with Oxy/acetylene & would really like to find out what its like.

    Theres also a plasma cutter/welding torch that uses water & methanol & electricity as a power source. Cuts & welds with the same torch, up to 6mm, its a light unit, like a plasma.


    Haha! "A Scrappers Dream Cutting Torch" weighs 200gms, uses 2 D size batterys, cuts thru 12 inch stainless & emits no heat. $20
    Last edited by eesakiwi; 02-04-2014 at 10:54 PM.

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to eesakiwi for This Post:


  35. #18
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,693
    Thanks
    9,689
    Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,057 Posts
    I am presently at the Petrogen training with limited access to the internet. There is a lot of information from this training that will posted on the forum. Been cutting iron for decades and no one ever explained to me that the steel you are cutting is also your fuel. I knew you could turn off your gas and continue cutting with just oxygen but did not understand the chemistry. With this knowledge I am cutting six inch thick steel with a 2 inch gap in the middle like butter. Pretty impressive the knowledge they have provided. More to come.

  36. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  37. #19
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,693
    Thanks
    9,689
    Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,057 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Using a colon, or a semi-colon on the sub thread titles might help better explain their intent. When I first saw this title, and even after reading the initial post, I actually thought you were informing us of a "scrappers dream torch" : )
    There is no such thing as one dream torch. It is the goal of this thread, that enough information will be provided by research and member input that an individual that seeks the perfect cutting out fit for their needs will be able to find the answer here. High expectations but at least it has it's own goal.

    On this project my perfect torch will actually be a combination of cutting systems. The vision is it will be just like a team, as the crew will be expected to operate. It is expected that every type of cutting tool will be used for various metals and personal experience can be added to the thread.

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to Patriot76 for This Post:


  39. #20
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Feb 2012
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    5,711
    Thanks
    6,798
    Thanked 3,449 Times in 1,983 Posts
    That was how it read was all ; ) I wanted to take that off actually, but when I got back to, the option had expired


  40. Similar threads on the Scrap Metal Forum

    1. Cutting torch Recommendations?
      By Meadowview in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 14
      Last Post: 07-06-2013, 01:24 PM
    2. cutting torch
      By decjr2006 in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 13
      Last Post: 11-26-2011, 01:15 AM
    3. Cutting tool that isn"t a torch
      By sdw in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 07-13-2011, 02:54 PM

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

 
Browse the Most Recent Threads
On SMF In THIS CATEGORY.





OR

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Scrap Metal Forum

    The Scrap Metal Forum is the #1 scrap metal recycling community in the world. Here we talk about the scrap metal business, making money, where we connect with other scrappers, scrap yards and more.

SMF on Facebook and Twitter

Twitter Facebook