A Scrappers Dream; Cutting Torch

Some topics from the original thread are extensive and deserve their own space. When researching gas torches on this forum I saw threads on acetylene, propane, acetylene/propane, petrogen, and other gases that would fall into one of these three categories. Discussions about all three systems could not be found in one location. If this discussion was buried within the original thread, no one be able to benefit from it. Information on propane and liquid oxygen was discussed in the Watertank thread, but if you were just searching propane/oxygen torches you would not have found it.

Therefore this thread was started to discuss this topic, share personal opinions/experiences, and to allow the comparison of my research with the thoughts of others. The goal is to create a complete library of advantages and disadvantages of the different gas torch options. Please chime in.

Motivation for this thread came from research on petrogen torches, something being considered for the power plant. Research highlighted two companies in China (Taiwan and Beijing), one in India, and one in the U.S. (Petrogen.Inc) that produce systems that operate on gasoline. I would like to know if others exist.



These torches have been used in the Chinese and Russian oil fields for decades and now used by the U.S. military and fire departments throughout the nation. Time to light the torches.

What size plasma do you have, what is it's cutting limit, and what wattage does it require to run? I am researching these as well for the project. Used one in a welding shop a couple years ago and was impressed. Now that I am spending someone else's money, it might be a reality.

if/when I get my torch setup, I will be going with oxy propane. I do not need to braze, nor do I see the need to braze.

plasma is only good for fabrication imo, torches are cheaper to run and more portable. plasma for precision and a fairly clean edge to use for fabrication.

Patriot. There are really only three options when it comes to cutting metal more than 4 inches thick. Brute force (what is considered a heavy duty cutting outfit) running at 90 lbs o2 and 45lbs acetylene, or in some cases even higher. This can be dangerous as hell so someone with experience in cutting in the mining and or shipbuilding field is a definite plus. I asked my grandfather about this, a lifelong ironworker and he has this to say.

"It isn't so much can you cut thick steel, it's can you blow out the slag so your not wasting time on making multiple passes. And it's dangerous to have to come back and nip at something you should have got on the first try. I wouldn't even think of using a torch to cut a boiler or pressure vessel, that kind of steel has alot of carbon and will be difficult work, you will want to use a carbon rod or oxy-plasma cutter."

I have alot of experience in this field and I have to agree, plasma cutters are out for sure. You're going to want everyone set up with oxy-propane on heavy duty torch rigs with all hoses in protective sleeves. You want ONE guy who is experienced in gouging or the use of a carbon rod cutter to make the cuts that give access to your other torch people. Let me do some digging I will post a few rigs you should look into. There was a oxy-plasma rig I used in Iraq when I was a wrecker operator to cut armored doors and hinges...unbelievably powerful, can cut a sledgehammer head long ways in under five seconds. The bad:uses ALOT of oxygen, the consumables (rods) are not terribly expensive but all cutting should be planned by someone who knows what they are doing to minimize cost. I want to say a carbon rod cutter is the best way to go, but that's a gouging tool...which in itself might be the best option, after all often the best place to cut is the weld.

And again, if you tackle this, there's a certain way to setting up outfits and operators, every torch operator should have a gofer, the guy who keeps track of his hose, his tanks, his cold water...replaces his consumables, especially demo where speed is everything, that torch needs to be cutting at least 95% of the time it's lit. I'd have a shift lead, a guy that sets up all the consumables and tanks to be used on the jobs. Another guy is basically a demolition engineer and his job is to segregate and identify particular metals and alloys then the order by which the facility is dismantled. Torch crews, material handling crews... No reason why a train car couldn't be filled every single day, I'd expect 200+ tons a day from even a small outfit. Ten guys...no problem.

Greywolf,

Your point about having a guy "demolition engineer" worrying about how the place is cut down: I'd say that's pretty important, so the guys who are busy thinking about burning don't pull a Wile-E-Coyote and cut loose the floor they're sitting on!!

Jon.

Pretty much an engineering project even if it is deconstruction. Agreed.

If you run into a lot of stainless, a plasma cutter would benefit you. I bought my Hpertherm for a project requiring me to cut up and remove a stainless spiral freezer conveyer from a chicken processing plant. The plasma made it easy when a standard oxy/acetylene torch would have been impossible. A downfall of the plasma cutter is that the metal needs to be pretty clean. You can't cut through much rust, dirt, or even thick paint because you're relying on the ability of the metal to conduct electricity to start the arc. A plus for my machine is that it can run on single phase or 3 phase and autoadjusts to several different voltages.

For the dirty jobs, I use a liquid oxygen and propane rig. I didn't get to cut with it myself, but watched a lot. I was taking down a flat water tank and was running the excavator. I would pick up the side of the tank and the cutter was cutting the side from the floor. I had to lift it to get it out of the water that stood 6 inches deep all day every day. He could cut a foot every 8 seconds (I counted too many times) through thick rust and gunk with the water draining off just ahead of him.

Also, check out Oxylance for your real thick jobs. They have several cutting rods, bars, tubes options on their website. I didn't get the project, but I researched them when I was bidding one with 6" steel to be cut. They are close to me in Birmingham, AL.

The carbon rod cutter covers non oxidizing alloys, the plasma cutter is a rather limited machined designed for fabrication environments except when you go big..but then industrial machines can cost 100K

I am presently at the Petrogen training with limited access to the internet. There is a lot of information from this training that will posted on the forum. Been cutting iron for decades and no one ever explained to me that the steel you are cutting is also your fuel. I knew you could turn off your gas and continue cutting with just oxygen but did not understand the chemistry. With this knowledge I am cutting six inch thick steel with a 2 inch gap in the middle like butter. Pretty impressive the knowledge they have provided. More to come.

Originally Posted by Bear

Using a colon, or a semi-colon on the sub thread titles might help better explain their intent. When I first saw this title, and even after reading the initial post, I actually thought you were informing us of a "scrappers dream torch" : )

There is no such thing as one dream torch. It is the goal of this thread, that enough information will be provided by research and member input that an individual that seeks the perfect cutting out fit for their needs will be able to find the answer here. High expectations but at least it has it's own goal.

On this project my perfect torch will actually be a combination of cutting systems. The vision is it will be just like a team, as the crew will be expected to operate. It is expected that every type of cutting tool will be used for various metals and personal experience can be added to the thread.