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A Scrappers Dream; Cutting Torch - Page 5

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  1. #81
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    Hmsburner I think the problem is more experience. Trial and error. You tried it all you know what works and what angles work and what angles won't work. Your either a burner or a learner. Anyone can cut through paper thin material with a torch but a torch man should be able to torch anything and everything put in front of him. Every burning crew has burners that are great and burners that are so so. Unless they have an experienced person cutting manganese (dead iron) is one of the toughest tasks you can give a burner. Keeping a bead on dead iron is almost impossible unless your a beast with the torch. Cutting through 4 inch material and making a clean cut is gonna be hard with the torches there using. I like your homemade vaporizer idea but I think these guys are running multiple burners off dewar tanks which are only meant for 1000 cubic food draw and hour when they are blasting through thick material. The math isn't in your favor from the word jump. Torches that require 3000 cubic foot an hour are getting 1000 cubic foot an hour which means there turning up the pressure to compensate. That's why the tanks freezing up. The tank wouldn't freeze if you had a vaporizer with good up and down action where the liquid can turn into gas. Marry the tanks hook up to the vaporizer let the vaporizer freeze up and not the tanks. That's how it's supposed to work. Mastering cryogenics took me years and years to figure out. Something as little as a hose barb in your line can f up the whole way the torch works and operates.


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    I wont mention the gas suppliers name but they are famous for supplying bad tanks. You can usually tell by the pattern on the side of the tank. If its spiral then the evap is good on the tank. I rarely use anything bigger than 1/4 inch line for anything smaller than 16 in thick. I have one inch line on the little 5 ft harris supplied by a dewar and duel evaporators. The big harris uses twin one inch lines and will freeze up one evaporator in the winter.The homemade evaporator on the little liquid oxy tank saves me the greif of having regulators rebuilt because they froze up and saves me the grief of talking to the gas rep who always accuses me of using too much oxy. I learned a long time ago that each burner has his own tank. Nothing worse than being in the middle of a cut and someone else sqeezes their trigger and I get splashed. When I used to cut ships,I ran a 2 inch line to a big air reciever tank and then ran a bank of regulators off that,never had a problem.
    Cutting mangenese requires lots of heat,a steady hand and big kahunas for the splash that is sure to happen. All the burners I know have necks that look like a bad case of chicken pox from cutting mangenese but in a burners life its a nessasary evil. I did a job in Niagara Falls a few years back cutting 80 cuppolas with 3 inch thick walls and full of slag. As Italian burners say "the bees were stinging " on that job.
    Enough history and back to the thread

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  5. #83
    Patriot76 started this thread.
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    Thank you HMburner and PistoneScrapProcessing for your insights, ideas, and information. HM, could you post a picture of your homemade evaporator. I think I understand, but want to make sure. It might ruin my beverage cooler, but will improve our ability. Thanks.

  6. #84
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    Hms which mother fing gas company would that be Praxair or air gas? Lol. Yeah those dewars are meant to start popping off as soon as they fill em and get em on the truck. That's how they make money with faulty pressure builders. Patriot google cryogenic vaporizer and see what you find. You won't have to change your cold beverage ways. The vaporizer will freeze over seeing how it's turning a liquid into a gas and not having the dewar do it. I keep my drinks cold on our 5 vaporizers at work.

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  8. #85
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    Patriot,

    An explanation of the physics of evaporation is in order here. Liquid oxygen is stored as such since it takes up less space than compressed gaseous oxygen. However, when you turn a liquid into a gas, there is a "latent heat of vaporization" that needs to be taken care of. For converting a liquid into a gas, that translates into a heat INPUT into the vaporizing oxygen. Getting heat out of the surrounding atmosphere, means it will get cold. Getting too cold means vaporization slows down, as heat from the surrounding area can't flow into the tank fast enough.

    Running the liquid oxygen into a remote tank and calling it a vaporizer may or may not increase the actual heat input into the liquid. It may help if the remote tank has a lot of surface area that can draw heat from the surrounding environment. However, there are some engineering issues when dealing with fabricating vessels designed for liquid oxygen service. It is not something you may wish to jump into unless you know ASME pressure vessel code requirements for oxygen service.

    A true vaporizer is a heat exchanger that has a heat input in the form of electricity or a fuel gas to provide the heat required for vaporization. It is a controlled environment with thermostats and the like to control the heat input. For example, in a sawmill I worked at many years ago, we used butane for fuel in the lumber dry kilns. It was much like propane, in that you could store it as a liquid. However, it didn't vaporize as easily as propane so when using it in the wintertime it needed some assistance to vaporize rapidly enough to service our needs. The vaporizer used was a commercial unit, filled with anti-freeze as a heat exchange medium. A butane flame kept the anti freeze hot and liquid butane flowed through tubes in the anti freeze. It was kinda like a boiler. Worked very well--the incoming liquid pipes were inches thick in frost and the butane tank was too but the kilns never starved for gas.

    I'll bet you if you talk to your gas supplier or your torch supplier about a O2 vaporizer you will get one pronto.

    The other suggestion of linking several O2 tanks together is another way of spreading out the necessary heat flow into the oxygen tanks. If you are pulling a given amount of gaseous O2 out of one tank it will need a certain amount of heat input. Spread the same amount of heat input over a half dozen tanks and each tank needs 1/6 of the heat input...and may not freeze up so bad.

    Hope this helps!

    Jon.

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  10. #86
    Patriot76 started this thread.
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    Thanks Sawmilling. Very informational and as usual my learning curve just sky rocketed. Once again your insights are valuable and will make a huge difference in this challenge. Thank you.

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  12. #87
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    Taking the next step with torches. A custom 15' torch is being built to access the inside of the boilers. We have 10 stories of exposure and 16 ft. reach. The choices were spider baskets, bosom chairs, numerous other rappelling equipment or building a torch to reach it. We have considered all kinds of ideas and this seems to be the best at this time.

    Problems with a torch this long is the head and tip are heavy enough to bend the torch when you try to lift it. We are having extra tubes attached to stabilize it. We will also build a cradle to house the body out of angle iron. Guide lines will be built to support the weight at the head, body, and handle. The operator will only operated the high pressure oxygen lever and coordinate with the guideline operator. Hope to have pictures.

    If it works, this will be a one job tool. Not much chance finding a need after this project, so it will be part of the charm in the renovated historical building. I will provide information about the person building this for us, if anyone is interested.

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