Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 87

A Scrappers Dream; Cutting Torch - Page 3

| Tools and Equipment
  1. #41
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    The response to Bear's question about cutting in corners was seen as the same as painting one's self into a corner. After reviewing the thread, his question became clear. Attached is a video shot at the cutting torch training of myself cutting a railroad rail. The last two cuts on the flange were corner cuts through 3 in. metal. This fuel used for this video was diesel.



    The video demonstrates what Pistone pointed out, you are either a burner or a learner. I admit to being a learner because it almost took a minute to cut the rail using diesel fuel. Diesel fuel does not rate high on the chart above, but it is the common fuel of the military and NATO. This was the first attempt at this challenge and future efforts were more successful. The cut through the rail was 3/4 in. short of burning through the bottom on the initial cut. When the initial cut burns through the bottom, time spent was drastically reduced because you are not dealing with a corner cut. If you go to their web site you will see the other challenges we faced. We did not cut the one ft. diameter solid steel core shown on the video, but we did the rest and others that are not demonstrated on their site. As you watch the video's you can tell the success of the cut based on the spark pattern.

    The hat I am wearing was my grandfathers that was inherited when he died. It is my scrapping hat and is so dirty my wife bought me a new one and threw this one away. Being a scrapper, knowing where to look paid off and we are still together. The new one is my Sunday, go to church hat that seldom gets worn.

    http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/mi...f1bc0.mp4.html
    Last edited by Patriot76; 02-08-2014 at 06:46 PM.

  2. The Following 6 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:



  3. #42
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    Love the vid but 55 secs to cut through mid rail is way to long even if you cut 40 secs per cut off that's to long. I like how the guys selling you the petrogen torch give you a breakdown on everything but didn't include what happens if I just jack my propane up to 30 lbs and my ox up to 200. 8 psi on the propane more then I would normally set it at. More propane the faster I can preheat shaving milliseconds off my preheat or buy a blended propane with an additive that will burn hotter then regular propane. The petrogen torch may work great for the military because there in war torn country's where there isn't a Praxair or airgas on every corner. They don't have access to it. Ask any major demolition company in America what they use they will say a three foot torch and propane and oxygen. That's all Brandenburg uses and they are the largest demo company in America. Its what works and its time tested and proven it works in all environments. In response to your earlier post about running the torch lean or rich. That's not possible for me we don't have to worry about running out of product everything is hooked up to satellites. I haven't used little tanks in ages bulk everything for me. You talked earlier about burning out a diaphragm in a gauge. You are going to want to order a few dozen rubber pieces for whatever gauges you end up buying because you are going to straight up roll through em. If you run more then 100 foot of hose which I am sure your going to then you are going to be drawing more oxygen then your vlg 160 can handle. Sucking liquid oxygen through your diaphragm is going to cause it freeze and thaw over and over again causing the rubber to crack. Vlg 160 are not meant for cutting they are for medical oxygen delivery. There output is 1000 cubic feet an hour and your torch needs 3000 if you were running it balls to the walls for an hour. Like I said just having a bad mother of a torch means nothing if you don't know about all of the other variables that play into cutting. I would tell you my supplier but it took me 10 years to find em everyone out there needs the same time frame to learn on the job and get the experience to find out what works and what doesn't. If you picked up my torch right off the bat you would be blowing tips left and right and messing the head up. When I first started using it I was blowing through tips left and right and getting mad at myself. Tips are almost 200 bucks and the nuts are 50 a piece the heads are 900. I can't just hire rookies to cut. I just urge you stay away from petrogen I think its just going to a hassle and a waste of money for you. Oh and patriot did you find out who DJJ was???

  4. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by PistoneScrapProcessing:


  5. #43
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Pipestone - You have provided a great deal of information. Thank you.

    Turning up the pressure is a technique used by burners, not learners. The intent of the thread was to provide information to learners. Since you brought it up, I will admit I have cranked the flow up to the limits of the gauges. It increases cutting ability with any fuel, if you know what you are doing. It is dangerous for the average scrapper to use this technique and honestly not needed. The torch manufacturers post recommendations for flow based on efficiency and safety. Anyone that is exceeding the recommendations is doing so because of experience or stupidity. A video could be posted of a turbo cut making it look like Superman was cutting. Turning up the pressure, heating up the steel before filming, and cutting from the side would drastically reduced cutting time. The video was to present a realistic example of a learner cutting rail using one of the poorest fuels for cutting, diesel.

    We will be using manifolds on bulk tanks and running hoses throughout the building to strategic points. The gauges will be attached at the strategic points along with flash back protectors. This will limit the amount of hose needed from the gauge to the torch. As far as using gasoline, it is only one option and a final decision has not been made. This came on the radar when propane prices spiked because of the shortage in the mid west.

    I am sorry that you will not share your supplier, but not near as sorry as the supplier must be. With all due respect, I do not believe I would be blowing tips left and right if you let me try your torch. I would accept the challenge and would pay all expenses to try it. Good teachers and bosses make sure employees have the knowledge needed before risking their equipment.

    No I have not found DJJ. If you could provide more information, it would be greatly appreciated. The distributors in the area did not know of him, but all distributors have not been contacted.

    Thanks again for your insights, it is nice to have a person with such experience sharing their knowledge.
    Last edited by Patriot76; 02-09-2014 at 07:17 AM.

  6. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  7. #44
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    Patriot don't worry my torch supplier isn't suffering. They supply a majority of the steel mills with torches and burning equipment. I think they installed some 5000 manifolds at the new thyssenkrupp steel mill. They ship internationally and everything is manufactured in America and machined in America. When I first started bazooka torching I was going through tips all the time. Now one might last me two to three months. I haven't repaired my torch in close to two or three years. I also have the taps for it which I had to have machined on my own. My question is how do you intend on having bulk tanks inside of an industrial building. That's completely against OSHA regulations and whoever the supplier will refuse to fill it. I know I have had it happen before and we had to drag the tanks outside to get em filled and then we brought it back inside and the supplier turned there head and said if we get caught then didn't see or hear anything. What size bulk tanks are you planning on using and how big of vaps of you going to use??

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to PistoneScrapProcessing for This Post:


  9. #45
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    Oh and the propane price gouging is real in the Midwest. My supplier told me to wait as long as I can to get my two thousand lb tanks filled. Instead of auto filling them when the satellite send them a signal that it needs refilled. I still have 30 percent left to last me till the price goes back down. When I run dry we are going to go week to week till the price bottoms back out to normal. Which should only be another month. The cold is going to break in stl mo next week around wens or thurs then temps should return to normal and the price should start dropping. Right now it would cost me 10 grand to get my tanks filled lol. That's five times the cost of getting my 3000 gallon oxygen tank filled.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to PistoneScrapProcessing for This Post:


  11. #46
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    We will not have the tanks inside the building. Propane will be on one side and liquid oxygen on the other side. Hoses will be mounted on the structural supports through out the building. That way we do not have to worry about moving hoses all the time or dropping metal on them and cutting them.

    I am still researching the sizes. I do not have my hands around all the information and variables yet. A variety of fuels will be used and a decision on percentages must be made before we know the needs. We are still a month away from starting, so I have time.

    Can you provide more information on DJJ. If you do not want to do it publicly, please PM me. Thanks.
    Last edited by Patriot76; 02-09-2014 at 07:50 AM.

  12. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  13. #47
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    A member of the forum pointed me in the right direction to find DJJ. I will be contacting them tomorrow.

  14. #48
    sawmilleng's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Central Kootenays, BC, Canada
    Posts
    861
    Thanks
    713
    Thanked 1,200 Times in 521 Posts
    I guess its the experts secret, then? Let us know when you find out, Patriot.

    Jon.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to sawmilleng for This Post:


  16. #49
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Saw - DJJ stands for David J. Joseph Co. is an international scrap metal dealer in the area the plant is located. DJJ is a large company, but not as large as Sims. They flew under my radar on this project until Piston mentioned them. Piston talked about a DJJ and I thought he worked for another company. A member of the forum contacted me by PM and set me straight. Lot to learn about searching the internet and the member helped me in that regard as well.

  17. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  18. #50
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    There bigger then sims in the US they handle more scrap through brokerage then anyone else in the USA. They are owned by Nucor. They own more private railcars then anyone besides the railroads themselves. So the Nucor mill close to you is pretty much who you are going to ship to. Oh are you planning on installing a rail scale or just using your good judgement that they won't bend you over on the weight??

  19. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by PistoneScrapProcessing:


  20. #51
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing View Post
    There bigger then sims in the US they handle more scrap through brokerage then anyone else in the USA. They are owned by Nucor. They own more private railcars then anyone besides the railroads themselves. So the Nucor mill close to you is pretty much who you are going to ship to. Oh are you planning on installing a rail scale or just using your good judgement that they won't bend you over on the weight??
    Once again you have provided some great information. We actually have access to a rail scale and truck scale a half mile from the facility. This will allow us to ship by barge, rail, or truck. The Nucor name through me off track in your PM. Did you read my PM about your torch?

  21. #52
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    Patriot you are close but so far away. That's pretty much a minor league torch in my opinion its never gonna be ready for the big leagues. So what kind of oxygen do you intend on using???

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to PistoneScrapProcessing for This Post:


  23. #53
    SMF Badges of Honor




    Member since
    Mar 2012
    Location
    ks
    Posts
    2,187
    Thanks
    2,513
    Thanked 2,140 Times in 898 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing View Post
    I hate to break it to the people reading this or trying to assemble a thread one quote is gonna kill it. "Your either a burner or a learner." It's like asking me to weld I couldn't do it. Drive an 18 wheeler nope can't drive stick. I can learn it but does that mean I am gonna be able to do it. It's not all about the torch. Its about your setup and your gases and who's operating it. There's way to many variables to the equation to answer the questions proposed. You got gases to worry about, lines, head pressure, etc all affecting your tonnage output. The only thing that's going to answer your question is experience and using every torch ever produced to know what works for you. I am sure I will hurt someone's feelings on this thread when I tell them Harris and victor make junk torches. If you want a Harris or victor just buy the knock off flame tech junk it's all the same. They use junk heads and the solder doesn't hold up to intense heat. Using junk solder is going to mean its gonna spend time in the repair shop. Making junk seals for your triggers yup there good at that to. Mixing gases in the head or tubes yeah its 2014 figure out how to tip mix. Brass heads and were melting metal really??? I would rather pay more to get a torch that never needs repaired and I can use it as a baseball bat if I wanted to. Sorry about the rant but really there things to consider when choosing a torch.
    There you go again, tooting your own horn. And just because it doesn't fit your operation its junk. How about you send me one of those baseball bat torches. Bet I could send it back in many smaller pieces. Thought the purpose of a torch was to cut metal, not to beat on it like a caveman.
    Alvord iron and salvage
    3rd generation scrapper and dam proud of it

  24. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by taterjuice:


  25. #54
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing View Post
    Patriot you are close but so far away. That's pretty much a minor league torch in my opinion its never gonna be ready for the big leagues. So what kind of oxygen do you intend on using???
    Pistone was sent a PM with my guess about his torch with the promise that if it was, I would not reveal it on the forum. Since it is not his torch, the information will be shared. Flameteck produces a torch called the 9600. This is an exothermic torch and if it is understood correctly the gasses are mixed outside the tip, preventing flashback. It is used to cut in mills, refineries, ship yards, and large scrap yards with alternative fuels and oxygen. It is not made to use with acetylene. It was thought he used the External X exchange system. This combination can cut up to 48" of steel as well as concrete.

    This system is more than most of us need, it was just fun researching it. It met the clues Pipestone provided including the cost of replacement parts. Another member of the forum pointed me in the right direction to find pictures and other references from previous posts. Thank you.

    The plan is to use liquid oxygen provided by Mattheson Gases.

    As far as the project, an open mind has to be kept so resources are not missed. We do not have enough metal to justify investing in a Flameteck torch system, but in the name of education the research was worth it. Maybe this information will be beneficial to a scrapper that takes the leap into demolition in the future.
    Last edited by Patriot76; 02-11-2014 at 08:27 AM.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Patriot76 for This Post:


  27. #55
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    A decision has been made. We will be purchasing Petrogen Torches, tips, Teflon hose, and tanks from Petrogen Inc. in Colorado Springs. TIP: Regular torch cutting hose will not work with gasoline or diesel. The chemicals in these fuels will harden and crack regular hose.

    The plan is to purchase two sets for the skeleton crew and more sets when the entire crew is assembled in late March. We will also purchase regulators, torches, tips, and gas hoses from Miller/Smith Torches to cut with propane. Petrogen will be providing a clinic the third week of March and Miller/Smith will be in the first week of April.

    The company is purchasing all safety equipment including goggles, sleeves and capes, cutting jackets. and anything else we need. Each cutter will be provided their own set of equipment that they will be responsible for. For fun we will have a logo contest and each employee will mark his equipment with a logo. It will be like the colors on the bikers jackets. Another advantage is it will make it easier to identify individuals because they will all look the same other wise.

  28. #56
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    May 2011
    Location
    Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    762
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 900 Times in 349 Posts
    Thanks tater it's pretty much well know you highly dislike me. It's an opinion you are entitled to it. Now back to what me and patriot were talking about. So where are you using the petrogen torches at? Inside or outside? If you break the Teflon hose can you just use hose clamps and a hose connector? If not would you have to replace the whole hose. When I ran a powder torch I learned you can't patch the hose providing iron oxide to the head. It restricts the iron powder. 220 bucks for a clear hose that was 50 feet. I fixed the problem by buying Teflon welding lead covers. Fixed my problem. I would suggest you look into doing the same thing so you don't put a hole in the gas hose and have a disaster. What size torches did u order from smith? Which tips? What size oxygen bottles are you going to be using with? Are you buying 100 lb propanes 435's or a 500 gallon or bigger propane tank? How many guys are you going to be running off one propane tank and one oxygen tank?

  29. #57
    SMF Badges of Honor




    Member since
    Mar 2012
    Location
    ks
    Posts
    2,187
    Thanks
    2,513
    Thanked 2,140 Times in 898 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing View Post
    Thanks tater it's pretty much well know you highly dislike me. It's an opinion you are entitled to it. Now back to what me and patriot were talking about. So where are you using the petrogen torches at? Inside or outside? If you break the Teflon hose can you just use hose clamps and a hose connector? If not would you have to replace the whole hose. When I ran a powder torch I learned you can't patch the hose providing iron oxide to the head. It restricts the iron powder. 220 bucks for a clear hose that was 50 feet. I fixed the problem by buying Teflon welding lead covers. Fixed my problem. I would suggest you look into doing the same thing so you don't put a hole in the gas hose and have a disaster. What size torches did u order from smith? Which tips? What size oxygen bottles are you going to be using with? Are you buying 100 lb propanes 435's or a 500 gallon or bigger propane tank? How many guys are you going to be running off one propane tank and one oxygen tank?
    I don't dislike you psp, that ain't the case. Your always bashing what the vast majority use, which undoubtably rubbed other people wrong, which I think is your intent. And incase you didn't notice, pat done ordered petrogen. I'm sorry I dare post here because you know everything bout Every torch ever made and in any situation. In case you didn't notice that's sarcasm, get over yourself psp.

  30. #58
    Sirscrapalot's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Mar 2012
    Location
    A sandbar off the atlantic..OBX,NC
    Posts
    6,123
    Thanks
    11,885
    Thanked 8,783 Times in 3,854 Posts
    I'm just curious why it's a big secret about the torch used....I mean I can understand a buyer, or whatnot, but a torch?

    Don't ask me where I get my hammer, cause I ain't telling!

    Sirscrapalot - Can't we all just get along? - Rodney King

  31. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by Sirscrapalot:


  32. #59
    Patriot76 started this thread.
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing View Post
    So where are you using the petrogen torches at? Inside or outside? If you break the Teflon hose can you just use hose clamps and a hose connector? If not would you have to replace the whole hose. When I ran a powder torch I learned you can't patch the hose providing iron oxide to the head. It restricts the iron powder. 220 bucks for a clear hose that was 50 feet. I fixed the problem by buying Teflon welding lead covers. Fixed my problem. I would suggest you look into doing the same thing so you don't put a hole in the gas hose and have a disaster. What size torches did u order from smith? Which tips? What size oxygen bottles are you going to be using with? Are you buying 100 lb propanes 435's or a 500 gallon or bigger propane tank? How many guys are you going to be running off one propane tank and one oxygen tank?

    The cutting will take place inside the building as well as outside. The Teflon hoses have a metal casing around them to limit damage. Repair and maintenance instruction is covered by our purchase agreement. We also will be salvaging numerous water pipes that will be fabricated to protect cutting hoses.

    This will generalize our purchases from both companies. One ft., two ft., and four ft. torches will be purchased from each. A combination of 90 degree and 180 degree heads will be used. We will have all tip sizes available, but the main cutting will be done with # 2 tips for metal sheets and # 4 tips for thicker material. The largest tips # 6 will be used on machinery. A thermo-lance will be used for pins and pivot points.

    We will be using the 1,000 pd. liquid oxygen bottles. We will also be using a combination of 100 # propane bottles and a 1,000 gal. tank with manifolds. The clinicians will be providing advice for set up. The distributor will also be providing a cart for moving the liquid oxygen bottles.

    In another thread you offered to come to Omaha to provide advice. I will personally pay your expenses, if you are willing. Let me know.

  33. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  34. #60
    numbers's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    167
    Thanks
    1,421
    Thanked 312 Times in 115 Posts
    Whether or not I ever get a job where I will need equipment of the type talked about in this post, I have found this discussion to be very beneficial. I appreciate everyone that has contributed information.

  35. The Following 5 Users say Thank You for This Post by numbers:



  36. Similar threads on the Scrap Metal Forum

    1. Cutting torch Recommendations?
      By Meadowview in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 14
      Last Post: 07-06-2013, 01:24 PM
    2. cutting torch
      By decjr2006 in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 13
      Last Post: 11-26-2011, 01:15 AM
    3. Cutting tool that isn"t a torch
      By sdw in forum Tools and Equipment
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 07-13-2011, 02:54 PM

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

 
Browse the Most Recent Threads
On SMF In THIS CATEGORY.





OR

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Scrap Metal Forum

    The Scrap Metal Forum is the #1 scrap metal recycling community in the world. Here we talk about the scrap metal business, making money, where we connect with other scrappers, scrap yards and more.

SMF on Facebook and Twitter

Twitter Facebook