Lets put a bounty on tweekers and thieves

[smokemaker68]

I swear if i lose one more contact because of these lil sobs im gonna declare open season. They are talking about making everyone here get llc and or business licenses.
which at this point,might be a good thing.Iused to be against but this might cure this problem

[dherik]

I would generally be against this, but I would suggest more of an association? With guidelines, ethics rules we all agree to, that sort of thing.

[smokemaker68]

thats what i say too.We need to get a public meeting or something with our local officals,and maybe give our profession a better image,Many people look at us as bums and such.And with the stealing going on its getting harder to make a buck legitamately

[Mick]

Join the crowd. I lost three contacts within a week due to people going to haul their own stuff to the scrap yard. Another was to a guy who claimed he was my son and running my route cause I was in the hospital for shoulder surgery.

But - if you get up something like a Code of Ethics, that won't solve anything. The only people abiding by it will be those who sign it - it won't stop others from anything. So, you'd want a law that people could only sell scrap to "licensed" dealers. Or scrap yards could only buy from registered/licensed dealers? Not realistic.

[dherik]

I look at it like this, we can go into someone and say, I belong to XYZ association, I have some sort of credential, I would like to do business with you, and I'm a professional, and willing to put my name on the line, with not only you, but my association. By doing business with me you know I'm going to follow a set of ethics and guidelines, and you have a way to report any dispute you my have with me.

Think of this as a BBB for scrappers.

[Mick]

And people's main concern is still - "How much?"

[dherik]

Well, it doesn't cost but a few dollars a month to maintain a website, printing can be had cheap enough, and day to day operations would be minimal. I have contacts from previous work in the design business, that do good work very inexpensive.

I would be with at least 25 starting members it could be done for around 20 dollars a year, maybe even a discount for Scrap Room members

[c4f5]

Something will have to come about before too long. I have personally been the victim of large scrap thefts TWICE, adding up to several thousands of dollars. I derby as a hobby and deal with alot of other derby guys. Overnight, over 100 of my good radiators grew legs. That was about 4 & 1/2 years ago. Just a couple months ago, in a 3 day period, 7....yes 7 fresh cars vanished w/o a trace from our storage facility about 20 miles from the house. Infuriating.

And absolutely.....I have been scrapping for a living for the better share of my adult life....way before prices skyrocketed and everybody and their dogs became "professional" scrappers...back when making a living with it took skill and a good work ethic. Long before there were internet forums and blogs about it. These thugs are really starting to give true professional scrappers a bad reputation, and it is quite pissing me off. I was pretty sure I was not alone on this.

[c4f5]

It's a problem even out here in the sticks. My dad, who lives about 105 miles away, came to visit yesterday. He told me that week, he replaced his home water heater. He, being still strong and healthy, dragged the dead one out to the alley, came back to the house to grab tools to knock off the copper & brass for himself, and by the time he got back out to the alley, without even getting sidetracked, it was long gone.

[TheMetalizer]

Another was to a guy who claimed he was my son and running my route cause I was in the hospital for shoulder surgery. .

WTF! That is pathetic... What kind of psychopath does that? Call the cops for fraud!

[iScrap]

Hey c4f5 that would have pissed me right off, especially after dragging it out. He should've done the job close to the house.

[c4f5]

Yeah, his back door is right at the top of his basement stairs. He probably figured he had it that far...may as well just drag it the rest of the way. A new scrap yard opened up in his town with alot of hype. He says that ever since then, he's had 15-20 "scrappers" cruising his alley every single night...not to mention the day time.

I differentiate between a scrapper and a dumpster diver. NOT the same thing.

[Dumpster-Dee]

I'm a Dumpster Diver and proud of it c4...you gotta start somewhere. I may not be a "scrapper" in your eyes, but, thanks to the kinder gentlemen on this site and others, I'm scrapping my way out of poverty.

[c4f5]

My definition of a dumpster diver is someone who is taking someone else's trash w/o permission. It's rude, especially at night, and is nothing less than theft. These folks are right there with the tweakers & thieves. If that's something to be proud of, then I guess it fits right into today's society. I managed quite well scrapping in the late 80's, through the 90's, and into this millineum. Ever since prices spiked in '04, I've been scrapping my way into poverty.....especially these past couple years, with decent jobs being scarce; every other guy I meet has become the competition, with more and more of them willing to work for pennies.

If my little soap box rant has hurt anyone's feelings......well, there might just be something to it.

[Dumpster-Dee]

You didn't hurt MY feelings, c4. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and have a right to voice it, too. Question: Are you saying that taking small appliances that other people put in the dumpster or out by their trash is stealing. Sometimes they put things that work out by their trash can or the dumpster...do you think that's stealing,too? Just needed a little clarification about your statements if you don't mind. I haven't thought of it as stealing before, but now you've got me questioning myself, and I was wondering what other experienced scrappers think on this subject. (newby's too, for that matter)

[c4f5]

I was a little fired up last night when I took the keyboard bully stance. Perhaps it wasn't my place. In the eyes of the law or someone else, maybe, maybe not. In mine...taking something that does not belong to you without permission is absolutely stealing, and if these guys don't find regular jobs again, soon, I will be forced to resort to it myself.

If someone other than my trash man were digging in my dumpster...........well, you've heard the phrase shoot first, ask questions later. Granted, my dumpster is in the center of 10 acres of private property, but is that really relevant?

[Mick]

... Granted, my dumpster is in the center of 10 acres of private property, but is that really relevant?

Depends on State law. Usually, the amount of force you can use depends on the amount of force being used on you or another person. Exceptions usually apply to forced entry of your residence. I don't think any state allows you to shoot someone for petty theft or trespassing.

[TheMetalizer]

I differentiate between a scrapper and a dumpster diver. NOT the same thing.

Yes, but they are not mutually exclusive.

My definition of a dumpster diver is someone who is taking someone else's trash w/o permission. It's rude, especially at night, and is nothing less than theft.

You could not be more wrong...

If you (in the past ten years or so) have seen somebody throwing out a water heater or stove, sitting on the curb next to their trash, and you didn't grab it to scrap it because you think it is wrong, I don't think you can call yourself a scrapper. You may be a hauler, or a small scrap metal broker, or a metal recycling consultant, or maybe you just have so much money that you can pass up on the opportunity.

Ever since prices spiked in '04, I've been scrapping my way into poverty.....

Well, then I guess you are tight for cash, like many of us, myself included. So why wouldn't you grab what is rightfully yours?

It's rude, especially at night, and is nothing less than theft.

Well, for one, it is nothing near, not even close, not even the same ball park as theft. When you put something at the curb, it becomes part of the public domain, clear as day. That is the way it works. If your city decided to make it a ticket-able offense (which they haven't from the sounds of it), then, and only then, is it a misdemeanor ticket of usually $25 to $100; which is neither close to the possible jail time of petty theft, nor as dangerous as something like speeding.

I hate metal theft! which is why I do take offense to somebody saying that collecting a perfectly legal source of metal, then recycling it (helping keep commodity prices down, helping conserve energy, helping promote local businesses, helping keep landfill costs low by keeping metal out, helping promote recycling at a grassroots level, helping create competition in the world of sustainability, helping save all the strain on the trash man's lower back) is actually a crime.

Taking something from the trash is not a crime, unless it is a secured dumpster, or you are trespassing.

If someone other than my trash man were digging in my dumpster...........well, you've heard the phrase shoot first, ask questions later.

The phrase "shoot first, ask questions later" is idiotic. It's the reason children are shot for trick or treating, and scrappers that are perfectly within their rights are murdered. We have the right to bear arms, but WTF would you unscrupulously shoot somebody for digging in your dumpster? A perfectly decent human being, who has parents or children, and who more likely then not would simply leave when told they were trespassing.

Granted, my dumpster is in the center of 10 acres of private property, but is that really relevant?

Yes, that is relevant; It gives you the right to use force if they are trespassing. And that is if you have signs posted telling others to keep out. Even still, why would you kill?

[in my opinion] taking something that does not belong to you without permission is absolutely stealing

Taking something from the public domain is not stealing. If you are walking along in the park, and you find a 10 dollar bill folded neatly sitting near a tree. Would you grab it? What if you found it next to the the trashcan in the park? By your logic, taking the bill is stealing; but clearly it is not stealing because it is in the public domain.

Like the park, the garbage curbside collection system is controlled by the government, and the garbage is owned by we the people until it is taken by waste management. That is the reason the police can search your garbage without a warrant, and I can take a perfectly good washing machine for scrap without thinking twice.

and if these guys don't find regular jobs again, soon, I will be forced to resort to it myself.

Wait, this confuses me... How is somebody taking from the trash (which you refuse to touch) taking business away from you, unless you too also collect scrap metal from the trash. Do you, or do you not, collect metal from the curb? If anything, these guys are promoting the idea of metal recycling, which in turn makes the recycling business more visible, which in turn would help more people seek the help of a professional, such as yourself.

c4f5, you may be angry that you have competition, but calling them thieves only spoils your's and every other scrapper's reputation, because it implies that what we do is unlawful. Not everybody here collects scrap from the trash, but I see no reason why, when I'm having a slow day, I can't collect junk for an hour or two.

I wrote up a small explanation of why collecting scrap metal is not against the law.

And a small note; whenever I have the opportunity to politely ask somebody if they wouldn't mind my grabbing a broken appliance at the curb, I do. BUT, I never knock on their door, for fear that somebody with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude will answer with a hot piece of lead... (over a washing machine or broken lamp of all things!)

(...And that is how you write a rant!)

[Recycler]

Were you able to find out who was doing this? I think there's probably a way to report that sort of thing.

[TheHoss]

TheIrrationalist, wow. Now THAT was a good post.