Can metals be scrapped without being separated?

[ITSANSS]

Hey, ya'll

I work for a state agency doing highway maintenance. We've got a pile of miscellaneous scrap metal of all kinds piled high. I'm talkin' this is a huge pile of scrap!!!

Well, it's being sold online from what I understand. I've heard a few stories from guys that have worked here for a while that have seen scrappers buy the pile and come get it to take to sale. It's only done every five or six years or so. Apparently it's quite profitable.

Needless to say, I want in on it!

Question is....

Do I HAVE to separate everything out according to type to take to a scrap yard, or can I just load it in a 10 yard dump truck and take it to 'em? Basically, move the entire pile from our yard to the scrap metal yard. I figure that I'd get a lot less money if I did it that way, but the state is only gonna' give the winning bidder a certain amount of time to have the pile removed. I'm not sure what that time is, but I figure it'd take a newbie (me) quite a while to get the hang of separating the pile out into different types.....and there is A LOT to go through.

Thanks!

[Mick]

No, you don't have to separate it. Just take it in as you described. You are right - You will get a lot less money as they will take the value of the LEAST valuable stuff you have and apply that rate to the entire load. At best, you get MIXED METAL price applied to the load. My advice is do a quick sorting by using a magnet. Anything that doesn't stick - put aside for another load or sell it separate from the main load. In piles like that, it will usually be Copper, Brass, Lead and Aluminum. From that, pull any wiring to cut off the insulation and more than double its value. Wiring really takes up very little room for its worth.

Yes, done right, it can be VERY profitable.

Beware State laws prohibiting employees from purchasing that stuff. Check with your supervisor.

Welcome to the Forum.

[Ditchdigger]

I work for a state agency doing highway maintenance.

The first question I'd ask is whether, as an employee, you're even allowed to bid on it. Lots of agencies prohibit their own employees from buying their surplus goods, whatever they are.

As for the rest of the question, just as a rule of thumb, the yards will buy almost anything, but the better sorted it is, the better your return will be, and keep in mind that you're likely to be bidding against people who know the game, and are equipped to optimize their returns by knowing what to sort from what else...

I see that Mick beat me to the reply button, but we're essentially on the same page.

[ITSANSS]

Mick,

Yeah, it probably wouldn't be worth just taking it all in. I can at least do the magnet test.

I was researching this stuff a little bit before I posted. I already knew of the magnet test, to an extent, and I discovered the spark test in my researching. Well, in The Great Plains where I live, the sun is almost always shining very brightly and the wind is always blowing AT LEAST 20 MPH. I think me, a total newb., trying to do the spark test under these conditions would be almost impossible. Perhaps just separating the magnetic and non-magnetic would be very worthwhile and it would be easy and not that time consuming.

Also, I had a friend that worked for an electrical contractor place, so I was aware of the stripped copper wire vs. non-stripped. Very worthwhile to do that. Plus, my friend did quite a bit of insulation stripping and he told me a pretty easy way to do it. Tie the wire to a post or a tree and then take a very sharp razor and just drag it along the insulation the length of the wire, cutting one side of the plastic/rubber. Then, he said, that the wire can simply be "peeled out" from the rest of the insulation. Can do!

Good idea on the employee thing. I've heard in the past that auctions back in the day were opened exclusively for employees, but then it was opened for the public and employees couldn't bid, but now I believe that employees and the public alike can bid. I'll certainly have to ask to be sure. I also need to find out WHERE to bid on it. I know my boss had a couple guys I work with go out and measure (estimate) the pile size. Height, length, width. They also took several pictures of the pile and he said the pictures were for putting online for auction.

I'll ask him come Monday for some more details. If it does turn out that I can't bid, maybe I can get my dad to help me out. Loophole!

Thanks!


DitchDigger,

I thought the exact same thing. I'll be up against people that do this for a living and that have been doing it for years. They're gonna' do everything they can to not let a punk kid like me get their cash. Haha

Yeah, for the best return I'd imagine everything would have to be separated out to a "T". However, for time's sake I may just do a very general separation. I'd hate to get time-bit on somethin' like this. Not sure what the penalty would be, but I'd hate just the ridicule I'd get from the guys I work with let alone a fine or somethin'. lol

Thanks!

[KzScrapper]

Is that dump truck you plan on using owned by the state? Just curious.

[ITSANSS]

KZBell,

HAHA!! No, I wish!

Equipment rental is part of what I'm working up on how much it'll cost me to do this but still make some money.

I figure a cutting torch, a loader, and a dump truck or two is what it's gonna' take to get this thing goin'. And the state has all of this stuff! Maybe they'll let me borrow it. That'd help my bottom line tremendously. Hahaha

There's a piss ton of wrecked guard rail in the pile and some of it is easily 50ft long. I think there'll be plenty of cuttin' to be done. Also, there are quite a few aluminum signs in the pile that, to be clean, will need to be cut from a pole, etc., and wrenching'll just take too long.

I'm excited about this deal! I'm hopin' it works out!

Thanks for everyone's help thus far!



Hey, do ya'll know if cable TV cables are copper? I've got a box full I don't really need...

[Mick]

re: Spark test. Get yourself a little battery-powered grinder that takes a 4 1/2" disc. They're cheap and light to manipulate. It takes just a touch to the metal for a "field test".

re: Cable TV cables: I always assumed they are, but what you can do is cut one in two. If the wire is red, it's copper. If silvery, it's aluminum. I'd imagine they're one or the other.

[Ditchdigger]

If it does turn out that I can't bid, maybe I can get my dad to help me out. Loophole!

I cut and pasted this directly out of the online auction site that the PA Turnpike Commission uses: Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission Employees and their immediate household members are prohibited from purchasing any items in this auction. It is in red, and the font is larger. I think they must be serious.

Things may be different at your location, but be careful not to lose your job for the sake of a quick buck.

I figure a cutting torch, a loader, and a dump truck or two is what it's gonna' take to get this thing goin'. And the state has all of this stuff! Maybe they'll let me borrow it. That'd help my bottom line tremendously. Hahaha

Keep in mind that this isn't 40 years ago. Back in the day, you could probably get away with having the highway department pave your driveway. Today, in a heartbeat, somebody will videotape you improperly using the taxpayer's equipment, and you'll be on the 6 o'clock news.

Also, there are quite a few aluminum signs in the pile that,

IF it turns out that you can make this work out for you, be sure to get some sort of paperwork that documents the legitimate origin of those signs, and that you paid for them. Where I go, they won't even accept highway signs, because the presumption is that they've been stolen.

[Mick]

Second Ditchdigger's points. I don't know any government entity where you're allowed to use government property for private use or gain. Highway signs are public property and not accepted by yards here, either.

[EcoSafe]

there is a valid reasion gov employees are not allowed to participate, it causes colusion. I have an in law who is an $48 per hr electrician in a well known western state . weekends are $1000 per day. His "mad money" comes from the $20,000+ in pilfered copper scrap he sells every year. He of course sees nothing wrong with this, and views him self as a good solid christian man, and union member, and they wounder why their 50 billion + in the hole.

[Dumpster-Dee]

olddude,
I still see a lot of electricians throw copper scrap in the dumpster or just leave it wherever it falls. Are you sure that your inlaw doesn't have permission to keep scrap....just wondering. Hate for a good man to be dissed if he's not really doing anything wrong. My nephew is an electrician in a well known southern state(hourly pay MUCH less) and they take their scrap back to the yard and the owner takes it in once a year and throws a big party and gives them all a share of the money.

[EcoSafe]

he has admited to me he is not supposed to remove recyclable material, his exact quote was "but if I don't take it some Mexican junk guy will any way"

[Mick]

there is a valid reasion gov employees are not allowed to participate, it causes colusion. I have an in law who is an $48 per hr electrician in a well known western state . weekends are $1000 per day. His "mad money" comes from the $20,000+ in pilfered copper scrap he sells every year. He of course sees nothing wrong with this, and views him self as a good solid christian man, and union member, and they wounder why their 50 billion + in the hole.

He's not a federal government employee, then. Who's $50B in the hole? California?

[EcoSafe]

actually I think its more like 57 billion.

[ITSANSS]

I was kiddin' about usin' the state's equipment. Hence, the "Hahaha". But they really do already have everything I'd need and it really would help out my bottom line. lol I haven't researched it yet, but I'd imagine a loader, truck, and torch would easily be $1,000.

By the way, you're exactly right about "back in the day". Half the guys I work with have been with the highway department for literally longer than I've been alive and they've seen some crazy things. lol

Also, I know that the state gives some sort of receipt and special permission to be able to have state property. It's gettin' crazy down here. Most scrap places here take your picture, scan your driver's license, and take your license plate number of the vehicle you're driving. Lots of meth. addicts stealing stuff and scrappin' for dope money. People love meth. down here!!

Thanks for the laugh at the "Mexican junk guy" bit! lol!!

[IdahoScrapper]

I buy government auctions from time to time. They usually state in the auction that it's the buyers responsibility to load item(s), but every time they have loaded it for me.

If they're willing to load it, then all you need is a torch and dump truck or a dump trailer.

[ITSANSS]

IdahoScrapper,

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they'd helped out. Especially if it were me gettin' it. However, I know the guys I work with well enough to know that they'd expect a big cut. lol



Kris Kringle,

Apparently that is exactly what the guys did last time the scrap pile was sold (which was about six years ago for our county). Couple guys rented a U-Haul, spent a day or so separating things, and a day or two loading. One of the guys I work with said they talked to one of the guys and he said that their first trip of aluminum scrap paid their total investment. All the other loads of aluminum and metal were sheer profit.

I'm really gonna' try for this! It'd be weird through to take vacation time off work but still be at work. Haha


Thanks

[c4f5]

If you have sufficient time to break it all down on site, do it. If not, but you have space at home to dump it and break it down there, do that. If you have neither, use your time line wisely, and pick out some of the cherries before going hog wild hauling it in random bulk.

[ITSANSS]

c4f5,

I thought about that exact thing last night lying in bed trying to go to sleep. I actually do have somewhere I can put it all and carefully sort it out to get the biggest return. It would likely mean having to rent a truck and loader two times, but it could very well be worth it. We have a few rental places here in town. The state occasionally rents from RSC. I got on RSC's website yesterday evenin', and I saw a good lookin' loader but they don't have prices. lol On one page of their website, I think the home page, it shows a bunch of options for trucks. 5 yard, 10 yard, 14 yard, I believe. Well, on their online catalog it only showed 5-6 yard trucks. Again, with no prices.

That may be what I do is just load and truck everything as quick as a I can to my place and then take my time sortin' it all out. I live almost exactly 5 miles from where I work and it's interstate and state highways to get there, so it'd be pretty quick trips.

I'm curious as to what type of metal our brush hog mower blades are and what type of metal our guard rail is. I've personally thrown a couple hundred mowin' blades in the pile since I've worked for the state and there's no tellin' how many more are in there. And they're not lightweight! Also, just since I've been here, we've put a few hundred feet of guard rail into the pile and there was plenty in there before I got there. That stuff is very heavy! I'm just curious about those two things 'cause I know there is a bunch of it alone. I know the rail is galvanized, if that's any indication of its type.

We recently threw a 55 gallon metal drum in there full to the brim with galvanized nuts and bolts and washers from old guard rail systems, etc. It took three of us to tilt it back to get the loader bucket under it. That full barrel alone weighs no tellin' how much!!

We generate quite a bit of metal scrap with our day to day jobs and we're all the time pickin' up metal objects off the highways and those get thrown into the pile. It's the biggest pile of miscellaneous metal ya'll've ever seen!

I just looked through all my pictures thinkin' that I may have gotten it in the background, but I don't seem to have. I'll have to grab a picture of it Monday and show ya'll. It may be wise for me to get ya'll's advice on how much to bid! I am just a newb.!

Thanks

[Mick]

Just as a thought - I looked into government auctions and tried for a couple but didn't get any. The problem was that it seemed like the scrap yards, themselves, must have been bidding on them. The winning bid would be REAL close to "break-even" when I factored in travel and labor costs. I haven't even been back to the auction website for three months. Just be careful of "auction fever". It may look like you're in the running, but bids go fast on the last day. A couple of times, I really thought I was getting a couple of those blue dumpsters full cheap.