Insulated Wire Tip

As a new member, and being on the dealer side as opposed to the "scrapper" side (I still consider myself a scrapper ;-) ), I would like to throw a tip your way. This is something that I see "scrappers", the ones we call "peddlers" making a HUGE mistake on EVERY SINGLE DAY. When you are selling insulated copper wire, you ABSOLUTELY must know what you are selling. When I say this, I mean that you need to know the copper recovery of that wire that you are hauling down to the scrap yard. You can find the recovery for your wire the same way I do after someone sells it to me for dirt cheap and I get the upgrade. Buy a cheap set of gram scales from office depot (should cost about 10 bucks) and take a 6 inch piece of the wire in question and lay it on the scale with it set to grams (not ounces). Then record that weight. Next, strip off all of the insulation from the 6 inch sample. Now set the clean copper back on the scales. Record the second weight. Take the second weight, and divide it by the first weight. EXAMPLE: Weight with insulation = 104 grams; Weight without = 92 grams. 92/104=0.8846. You have some 88% Recovery material there friend! Don't let that scrap yard buy it for a basic "insulated copper" price. Trust me, the price difference will be SUBSTANTIAL. Also, you need to know if it is #1 Insulated or #2 Insulated. To know, just look at the wire after stripped and if it is #2 then its #2 insulated, if it is #1, then it is #1 insulated (unless there is a metal jacket in the insulation ie. alum, lead, steel etc.)



So when you go to the scrap dealer, [[call first, don't just show up]] Speak to someone besides the person who answers the phone (unless you know him/her to be knowledgeable) and say "Hey, I have 1000 lbs of #1 Insulated Copper, and it recovers 88%." then you should get a much better price. Make sure you call around, and don't be a jerk and do this trick with 20 lbs of copper. The dealer is not going to care unless you have a large quantity.

Hope this helps!

all of the yards i deal with have recently went to only 2 grades of insulated copper wire......christmas lights and not christmas lights.....so its a bit easier to seperate around here.....prices for insulated wire in my area are very low......they have changed the pay scale several times in the last 2 years.....every time the biggest yard changes theres the smaller ones follow suit within a month......xmas lights are .25 cents and not xmas lights are .75 cents

they were paying more for number 1 but they quit that a couple weeks ago.....i geuse thats the price of living in a small town.....there is also no where very close that pays much for electric motors or transformers or unclean aluminum....i hear the prices others get and im amazed sometimes......

Your post, while very simple in nature, is the best advice ever for copper wire peddlers! KNOW YOUR RECOVERY.

Even better, with larger wires and larger quantities, is to invest in a cable stripper and bring in shiny bright and #2 instead of wire.

MetalRecycler,

What is your opinion of these prices?

Mthomasdev,

Thanks for your reply. Could you clarify uour question please? I am not sure which prices you are referring to.

Hey BC, your being sold for a 1.73 a lb at Thomas's yard!

An Metal, I think he meant all the prices.

Oh an welcome to the forums!

Sirscrapalot - Keeper of the traveling cooler, an creator of much havoc.

Originally Posted by MetalRecycler

Mthomasdev,

Thanks for your reply. Could you clarify uour question please? I am not sure which prices you are referring to.

On all prices.

Even with an hour drive, I can't justify stripping much.

Only price that I think sucks is low grade. One of my other yards will pay #2 insulated for that (currently at $1.00 per pound).

mthomasdev,

I do not carry an opinion on the markets themselves as we never speculate with scrap. Although, higher prices are nice as this game is not as much about volume of pounds, but volume of dollars and the margin on those dollars. I am; however, very opinionated about what we are selling our scrap for. I am constantly analyzing the markets and assessing whether or not we are getting a fair value for our materials. I am on the phone every day with buyers and always attempting to develop new homes for our products. If we are not getting the most money possible for our metals, then I cannot be competitive in buying. Unfortunately though, I cannot divulge where we sell scrap or what we are getting for it.

As far as stripping your wire: it all depends on what you value your time at (or what you value your employees time at.) Time is the most valuable commodity we all deal in. I visited the yard of one of the smaller dealers that we buy scrap from the other day and actually had to talk over JUDGE JUDY! This guy has a small yard and spends a large portion of his time watching TV in his office! Someone like this will stay small and certainly will not pass his business along to the next generation. 99% of the population have absolutely no idea what possibilities are out there and what their own time is worth. Keep an open mind about your business, read trade magazines, develop ideas, find someone you can discuss them with - sharpen - sharpen - sharpen! It is the small details that make big differences in business.

mthomasdev,

Sorry, I just scrolled up and saw your price list, that's where I got confused.

Anyway, after looking at those prices, I would say that the dealer you are selling to is making about $0.35 per pound off of your #1 Copper. However, he is probably putting together 40,000 lbs at a time and commands the volume to get the price. He also has equipment, labor costs, fuel costs, freight cost, etc. needed to keep his doors open. I think that is a fairly decent price on #1 for a small dealer. If you were shipping him mixed 40,000 pound lots of materials (that is all kinds of non-ferrous on one trailer) I would expect you to get somewhere around $2.95 for your #1 CU. He is treating you the same on the rest of your metals. I think you are getting a fair deal if you are a small dealer (one man operation with a truck & trailer who comes regularly.)

It absolutely all depends on the volume though. This is a volume game. Increase your volume and doors will open.

I Usalluy get .80 to .90 a # at my yard for all wire but thats fine because i have multiple wire strippers and strip all the high recovery wire . And sell the rest
at that price. Im fine with it because my yard knows me and treats me well . Im one of those garage sale scrappers so ive learned what to pay and what not pay. Ive also learned to myself whats worth stripping and whats not worth stripping . I am a firm believer in that only you can determine whats worth it and not ( like sirscrapalot )

Anything strip able is going to get stripped by me. Bought a drill powered wire stripper a week ago and already have my $ back. If your stripping by hand make sure you calculate your labor in there, it takes a lot longer

At what gauge do you not strip the cooper out and just bring it in as insulated wire? I have a box full of insulated wire that when pulled apart would be below 20 gauge. Is it worth my time to strip it out? Or the better question is what do you do?

Only You can answer that question. DO you have a wire stripper? . Whats insulated wire by you and whats bare bright ?
I dont strip anything under 14 gauge. The rest gets sold as insulated. I will strip some 14 gauge cords and all the heavy cords . The lighter ones get sold as is . Since i have a wire stripper i used to strip all wire but then i have calculated what was worth what and dont strip as much due to being busy with other things .

I will give you an example based on my prices .
Take for example a 18 gauge 3 conductor extension cord. Lets say it weighs 10 lbs- (my prices as is )

$0.80x10lbs= $8

If you strip it
Lets say it has a copper recovery rate of 33%

0.33x10lbs= 3.3 lbs of Bare Bright

Bare bright= $2.85 x 3.3= $9.40

$9.40-$8= $1.40

A gain of $1.40

This would be good if stripping wasnt labor intensive with even commercial strippers.

If you had a granulator that would be a different story

Metalrecycler,

When talking about insulated wire and stripping of same, how does a granulator fit in to the equation?

I've never seen one in the flesh, just sales videos on youtube. I'm not sure how well they work to get the copper out of the wire insulation, and to what level they can separate the copper from the insulation. Do they work at all on very fine wire, say in the range of the 16-24 guage you see with comm cable and find in computers?

Are there granulators that can separate two metals from insulation, such as aluminum and copper? In Canada, there is lots of Teck cable used which has aluminum armor.

Talking to some of the yards around here, it seems that granulation is a passing fad. They just bale the wire and sell it by recovery, although someone is leaving something on the table because a particular bale may not be exactly the recovery it is sold as. It strikes me as the granulation takes all the guesswork out of the sales procedure and makes it easier to get exactly what the barrel or Gaylord of granulated copper is worth.

Thanks,
Jon.

This entire thread has been very educational. Does anyone on the forum just burn the insulation off the wire? It is known that you do not want to get it to hot, because you loose volume and weight. And since it is not politically correct, most scrappers would not admit to it. This was the preferred method in days gone by. Just curious.

Thanks for every ones insight.