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  1. #1
    Trickcard started this thread.
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    Question Window unit AC: Cost to drain right vs scrapping gain (number help)

    Ok so did a little calling/reading/bad math.
    Got my hands on two small window units and one large window unit (the large one almost was to heavy for me too pick up). Did some calling around to find out what the cost to have the ACs drained so if my yard asked or needs paper work (I think thy do) I would have it plus its the right thing to do. Talked to the three in town. Place number one wanted $85 and some change per hour and would charge me for a guy to come down and do it, I could not bring ACs to them, no to them. Second place still has yet to call me back so we will assume a no go there. Last place would let me bring them the ACs and only charge me $35 (service call) to drain. After talking to the people I would also need a piercing valve to so total is now $51.75 with tax.



    So did some looking I can find valves on Amazon for $3.90 have to order other stuff as well so that could work. Now the math.

    I looked up and seen Mike the scrapper break a large one much like the one I have, I know all things differ and size matters. This is for the math.
    Compressor - 20+ #
    Copper Pipe - 3.88#
    Wire - .12#
    Shread - 10.18#
    Low grade - .17#
    Copper motor - .78#
    Alu. Radiator - 7.53#

    Using the price at the yard in town (not the best but this is for math) .40˘# for the radiator and $2.40# for the copper pipe, this is thinking that thy just give me dirty #2 price. So at minimum I should get $11.92 give or take a few coins/bills.

    So with that scrap price I would need 3 large units to come out even or 5 small ones (assuming I get $8.00 scrap value a unit, got that number from reading around) to do the same.
    I need another set of eyes here to see if I'm mathing in left field or if I got this right... sorta...

    $34.95 - Cost to drain multiple units
    $11.75 - Buying one of there piercing valves, 3 of the Amazon valves would be a little more then that.
    $46.70+ First time and $34.95 each other time

    This is assuming it is fast to drain and the large number of ACs do not cause a addition charge.
    Now ACs are a uncommon thing for me to find this time of year and with the colder months ahead I don't think I will see many more. So from were I stand it is not a loss if I have the numbers or do you all think I should find a way to get rid of them by means of CL sell or hunt some one down to trade scrap with?

    I'm open for any and all advice you all have, looking to people who ran into this a few time them self. Please note that I do not have Benjamin Franklin sitting in my wallet in fact my change draw sees more dead people then my wallet. So taking a hit is not something I can do.


  2. #2
    mikeinreco's Avatar
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    So if you sell it on CL or trade it to another scrapper do you not think they will just cut the line and scrap it..........How does this solve the problem?

  3. #3
    Trickcard started this thread.
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    Ya that is one down side, I know it would look bad on me if I played the "look the other way" card. I don't want to take that rout. I will let them sit and rust in my yard before that.
    I would have to call them on there "printer certification" and find a fellow scrapper who can do it the right way. If thy paid the cash and had the amount of ACs needed to make getting certified and buying all the equipment to do it them self it would make finding people a option. So you can see were I am. I don't want the lines just cut and getting the equipment and certifications needed to do it my self is out of the question at this point and time. Why pay $100s when it would take me 1+ years before I can see returns, not a lot of window units around me. The ones I got feel like a fluke.

    I'm at the point were when I get the cash to do this I may have to bite the bullet and test it out the hard way. Right now I'm looking to the veterans to see if I'm about to make a flop here and need to save the cash to put into, I don't know trying to buy e-wast from the local yards, and just wait for the time were I can do it my self or run into some who can. When you got only a few dollars a month to "feel things out" you kinda want to make sure your not betting on the horse that you don't know has died. I'm just needing a few eyes to see if I'm looking at it right or if I'm way off and need to re-look at stuff.

    Math to me sounds right. Just looking for other options that get me to the same goal.

    So I don't want to be the "Snipping Scrapper" or "that guy who looks the other way", just looking for a little feed back.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeinreco View Post
    So if you sell it on CL or trade it to another scrapper do you not think they will just cut the line and scrap it..........How does this solve the problem?
    I give him props for looking into doing it the right way! Just my .02
    I'm so into scrapping.. When my Steel Toe Boots Wear out, I cut the Steel out of them and recycle the Toe!

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  6. #5
    mikeinreco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledge View Post
    I give him props for looking into doing it the right way! Just my .02
    Agreed You may find someone on CL who has the proper equipment and may do it for a % of the scrap or for the coolant itself (it does have value)

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  8. #6
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    Get your License an the proper equipment an do it yourself. Otherwise your part of the problem an not the solution. I mean that nicely tho it doesn't read that way..lol.

    My second thought..if you can't do it right, cause of cost or lack of gear, or whatever..then don't take AC's. No excuse for cutting lines an releasing that stuff. Whatever costs you pay out for license an equipment or to pay someone to recover for you, is a hell of a lot cheaper then what will happen to you if someone snitches you out for not doing it right.

    No offense meant Trick, but I'm not good at sugar coating or beating around the bush. I say the same in regards to TVs, if you can't do them properly don't do them.

    Oh I do have a third thing..Make friends with a hvac guy. Find one who wants side work an get him to do it for less. I mean he can make money off his freon if your getting enough of them. Freonjoe has talked about this before I believe, as has Gus if I recall, an 56. Apologies if I'm getting people mixed up, it's been a long day. lol.

    To me the easiest method is to get your license. Fubar just posted the info in another thread, an it's open book.

    Good luck in finding a way to deal with it, without being a part of the problem.

    Sirscrapalot - Looking for a teacher in the art of sugar coating an beating around the bush.

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  10. #7
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    I understand the Freon is worth something, too. So if you intend on continuing scrapping, I second SSaL's suggestion--get the equipment and the certification so you can reclaim the Freon. It won't pay itself off right away but over time it will.

    I think there are some older posts from FreonJoe who posted information about how much Freon is worth and who buys it. It seems to me that the people who buy it will provide you free tanks for the Freon, too.

    You can also then CHASE stuff containing refrigerant. Which to many people is a big pain to dispose of if they are trying to do it correctly, or if they are businesses and need a certificate proving they did it correctly... This all plays into your hands if you have the tools and training--offering a service that others can't or won't.

    Jon.

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  12. #8
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    even if the machinery is out of the question the license is not. perhaps rental or borrowing equipment to start (read SSA's befriend a hvac guy). If you have the capabilities then the ac's fridges ext will come to you. you will be the guy saying "well.. I keep the freon and 5 ac's" to the scrapper who wants to get his done.
    There ain't nothing wrong with an honest days work. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.- Old Man

  13. #9
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    I may be wrong on this but I don't even think actual "FREON" is even used anymore......The coolants used I think are more environmental friendly than actual "Freon"

  14. #10
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    Freon is a registered trade name of DuPont, which it uses for a number of halocarbon products. They are stable nonflammable moderately toxic gases or liquids which have typically been used as refrigerants and as aerosol propellants. These include the chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) implicated in ozone depletion, but also include newer refrigerants which typically include fluorine instead of chlorine and do not deplete the ozone layer.




    History[edit]

    The first CFCs were synthesized by Frédéric Swarts in the 1890s. In the late 1920s a research team was formed by Charles Franklin Kettering in General Motors to find a replacement for the dangerous refrigerants then in use. The team was headed by Thomas Midgley, Jr.[1] In 1928 they improved the synthesis of CFCs and demonstrated their usefulness for such a purpose and their stability and nontoxicity. Kettering patented a refrigerating apparatus to use the gas, this was issued to Frigidaire, a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors.[2]In 1930 General Motors and DuPont formed Kinetic Chemicals to produce Freon. Their product was dichlorodifluoromethane and is now referred to as 'Freon-12', 'R-12', or 'CFC-12'. The number after the R is a refrigerant class number developed by DuPont to systematically identify single halogenated hydrocarbons, plus there are R numbers assigned for other refrigerants besides halocarbons.

    Most uses of CFCs are now banned or severely restricted by the Montreal Protocol as they have shown to be responsible for ozone depletion.[3] Brands of Freon containing hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) instead have replaced many uses, but they too are under strict control under the Kyoto protocol as they are super-greenhouse effect gases. They are no longer used in aerosols, but to date no suitable general use alternatives to the halocarbons have been found for refrigeration which are not flammable or toxic, problems the original Freon was devised to avoid.

    Safety[edit]



    According to their material safety data sheets, CFCs and HCFCs are colourless, volatile, toxic liquids and gases with a faintly sweet ethereal odour. Overexposure at concentrations of 11% or more may cause dizziness, loss of concentration, central nervous system depression and/or cardiac arrhythmia. Vapors displace air and can cause asphyxiation in confined spaces. Although non-flammable, their combustion products include hydrofluoric acid, and related compounds.[4]

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  16. #11
    mikeinreco's Avatar
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    The primary difference between R22 and R134 refrigerant is what each contains. R22 refrigerant is a single hydrochlorofluorocarbon (HCFC) compound that contains hydrogen, chlorine, fluorine and carbon. R134 refrigerant is a single hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that contains hydrogen, fluorine and carbon. It does not contain chlorine, which makes it more environmentally-friendly than R22 refrigerant.


    Environmental Impact



    R22 is less stable than R134 because, when the hydrogen compound breaks down in the atmosphere, it releases chlorine before it reaches the stratosphere. The chlorine then reacts with the oxygen molecules in the ozone to create new molecules that result in ozone depletion. Because of this, R22 is considered a greenhouse gas, and the EPA is working to phase it out in the United States before 2030. Because it doesn’t contain chlorine, R134 is considered safer to use and was designed to replace chlorine-containing refrigerants, such as R22, because it is less damaging to the ozone.



    Read more : The Difference Between R134 and R22 Air Conditioner Refrigerants | eHow

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  18. #12
    mikeinreco's Avatar
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    Although scheduled by the EPA for phase-out, R22 refrigerant may still be used in small refrigeration systems manufactured before 2003. As of 2010, recycled or saved stores of R22 are also available for use, but R22 is no longer produced or imported by chemical manufacturers in developed countries, such as the United States and Canada. R22 may be used in older refrigeration and air conditioning units as well. R134 was designed to replace HCFC refrigerants used in automotive air conditioning, refrigeration and air conditioning units to replace R22.

    Read more : The Difference Between R134 and R22 Air Conditioner Refrigerants | eHow

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  20. #13
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    So after some brief searches it seems the industry is moving to a less "volatile, harmful" chemical.........Oh well interesting reading about it as I am on the couch with a head cold due to inhaling to much "FREON"........LOL

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  22. #14
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    Sorry..R22..or whatever the proper term is..We all know freon, so..you can forgive me for using it. Freon is known all over, an a whole lot easier to type then several different R-insert # here. I guess I can go to using refrigerant..

    I wouldn't get your hopes up tho, a simple search of Google shows you how generic the term Freon is.

    Carry on..an remember..be a part of the solution an not the problem when it comes to reclaiming..whatever you want to call it.

    Sirscrapalot - Tomato, Tomoto.

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  24. #15
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    Yes, you can make good money if I recall Joe's posts on it right. An hey you could then be the guy charging 35 bucks to recover someones <low whisper> freon. (Just teasing Mike)

    I think it'd be a good investment to get the license an the equip. Like Jon/saw said, over time it'll pay for itself. An if you go that route check your local pawn shops. I know one I deal with takes in gauges a lot an they make sure they work or they won't accept them. Good way to get good working items cheap if you have a decent pawnshop.]

    Sorry for the double post, didn't see all the other replies! LOL

    Sirscrapalot - The ingredient that shall not be named, coming soon to a theater near you.

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  26. #16
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    The 3 r's SSA
    Recover
    Recycle
    Reclaim
    or send to epa approved facility to be destroyed

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  28. #17
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    Hell I called it Freon forever until My AC guy kept getting onto me about it........He has a whole season of AC units I need to go pick up.........He evacuates them for me as I guess he re-uses the material......Got one a couple of years ago that blew up in my face (thought he evacuated them)........That was fun "Freon" everywhere but at that point what was I to do

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  30. #18
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    If someone shows up at my shop, I will recover them for free as long as the cases are off. Sometimes I just buy them outright for .15 a pound. As far as the refrigerants having value, R11, R12 and R22 are worthwhile to recover and sell. R134 and R410 aren't worth shipping. That includes all the blends as well. IE 401 A & B, 402 A & B, etc. I think all the blends start with a 4 except 502 if I remember right.

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  32. #19
    Trickcard started this thread.
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    After reading all the post with the information Mike tossed at me (I did not google that much into it) and all the correct terms and lingo my head hurts!

    So what I will do is thus: Place all 3 of the ACs in the corner of my back yard, find out how to tell what "COOLANT" is in each unit (what R# it is, I know one is with out a shell) and mark that down for latter, and then at a latter point (much latter) I will get the stuff and certification. I want to do this right. So I will search around and find out were and how to get the testing/training. I know the forums have that info or places to look to.

    I'm doing all I can to not be a, what's a good term, a #$%^ ball scrapper. When I get something that may be bad, TV tubes, magnetrons, LCD screens. I know were thy go and what is done with them. I'm lucky my city handles them the way thy need to be or so thy say. I'm not planing to get into the "well I only do it once or twice" habit. So you all don't need to worry about what's going on in my little part of Souther AR. Just needed feed back on how other people dealt with the stuff and maybe could toss there .02˘ on how thy handled it in the start.

    Thanks for the intel! None of it was taken the wrong way. Just learning more ways on doing it right.

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  34. #20
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    Yeah all the info is on the web..........Those were just copied and pasted from the web.........Trust me I am not that smart.........I wish you luck in all your adventures and do not wish ill will towards anyone here or in life

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