Ammonia Recovery and Disposal? - Page 2

Originally Posted by saleric

Hi Alloy2, Thanks for the input. You're right, I have no training in this. I understood, when I started that I was dealing just with gaseous NH3. When I had a small explosion, I stopped to do this investigation. I have been very open about it. I asked 3 ammonia fridge manufacturers; the one who responded didn’t know how to help. The other two have not responded.I anonymously, I asked ,..
The Recycling Council of BC
Consulted the Hazardous Waste Regulations of BC
Several businesses in the Hazardous Waste recycling; they said “If you have a barrel of ammonia, we can give you a price in disposing of it but we can offer no advice on removing it from fridges.”
Talked with a professional chemical consultant; he suggested that it is probably the hydrogen that exploded.
The Ministry of the Environment knew nothing.
Waste Management of BC knew nothing.
WorkSafe BC new nothing.



I have just written a letter to BC Safety Authority to get their input.
I did contact the the shop you mentioned in Enderby and he suggested the method that I put forward, that is to turn the unit upside down, let it settle and crack the valve to allow the gas to leak out slowly. He said that he sometimes hacksaws into a line to relieve the pressure.
So, it has been quite a journey. I got very little input from this forum when I started. I understood from one experienced fellow that he used his piercing tool to pierce a line and then bubble the gas into a bucket of water. Sorry, the tool will not pierce a steel line.

I won't go further until the investigation is complete and I hear from BC Safety Authority.

I appreciate your input, Merry Christmas,
Eric

Most informative write up, The RV Doctor: RV Absorption Refrigeration - Cooling Unit Facts, Faults and Fixes

Hi Alloy2,
I told BC Safety Authority what I was doing and asked what qualifications that I need. I asked for their input as to how to proceed.
Here is their reply... not much help.

Hello there Eric, for starters you do have the Environmental Certificate for ozone depleting substances to remove Refrigerants.
You asked many questions, and most relate to personnel injury and the Environment; the Safety Authority Regulates Operating Equipment.
There are two Free Downloads on our site The Safety Standards Act and The Regulations which are to be enforced.
We work with the WorkSafe group and OH&S Regulation, but only to our policies.
You can contact Worksafe and read through the Canadian OH&S Regulations.

On our web site www.safetyauthority may also assist you in what a Contractor may do.
This is what you may not do unless you have a Contractor License:
Note; In the Boiler Refrigeration Technology we do not get involved in Residential Equipment.
1. Work on regulated equipment
2. Removing regulated equipment that has an Operating Permit.
Thank you,

Markus Kootnikoff | Safety Officer, Boilers & Pressure Vessels
BRITISH COLUMBIA SAFETY AUTHORITY
A - 1278 Dalhousie Dr, Kamloops BC V2C 6G3

Since ammonia will burn with the support of a flame you could build an incinerator to pass the gas through, just remember the water in the RV fridge is saturated with liquid ammonia. You'll need a suitable vacuum pump to evacuate the system with the discharge from the vacuum pump directed to incineration ie: direct flame such as that produced by a tiger torch.

When I was located in Salmon Arm I dealt with Central Salvage just outside Kamloops proper, perhaps one of the guys there has a solution for you.

Also I would like to communicate with you via gille710 gmail

Ammonia – A Natural Refrigerant https://ammonia-safety.com/wp-conten...on02en_0_0.pdf



Compelling Characteristics Ammonia is a colorless gas that liquefies under pressure and has a pungent odor. In refrigeration technology, ammonia is known as R 717 (R = Refrigerant).

Although it is synthetically produced for use in refrigeration, ammonia is considered a natural refrigerant because it occurs in nature’s material cycles. Ammonia has no ozone depletion potential (ODP = 0) and no direct greenhouse effect (GWP = 0) Its indirect greenhouse effect contribution is also very limited due to its high energy efficiency.

Ammonia is combustible only to a limited degree; its ignition energy is 50 times higher than that of natural gas and

ammonia will not burn without a supporting flame.

Due to the high affinity of ammonia for atmospheric humidity it is rated as “hardly flammable”. Ammonia is toxic, but has a characteristic, sharp odor with a high warning effect. It becomes noticeable in the air at concentrations of just 3 mg/m³ ammonia.

This means that ammonia becomes evident at levels far below those which endanger health (> 1,750 mg/m³). Ammonia is lighter than air and therefore rises quickly.

Looks like incineration is a bad idea, could end up emitting hydrogen cyanide.

NOx formation from ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, pyrrole, and caprolactam under incinerator conditions

The measurements for the oxidation of ammonia in the presence of methane show a characteristic conversion of ammonia to hydrogen cyanide of about 10% of the initial NH₃ content, occurring at fuel rich and fuel lean conditions. The only reaction path for the generation of HCN in such an extent proceeds via methylamine arising from the reaction of CH₃ with NH₂. Furthermore, with growing temperature a distinct increase in the NO emissions has been observed, with reaction NO + NH₂ ⇔ N₂ + H₂O playing a key role in the NO removal. The experimental concentration profiles have been simulated using a detailed mechanism from the literature with substantial modifications. The kinetic model is able to predict all characteristics of the experiments very well.

Sounds like Markus at the BCSA is covering his own backside in case you blow yourself up.

Originally Posted by jimicrk

Sounds like Markus at the BCSA is covering his own backside in case you blow yourself up.

My thoughts exactly, just another bureaucrat putting in time.

The guy from MOPIA in Winnipeg when I made an inquiry about obtaining the test material for my freon ( CFC ) certification first words out of his mouth were,asking me if I was aware of any offenders.

Like get real, the dude is asking me to report on offenders, It was at this moment that I decided against being certified to legally handle CFC's..

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