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Let's talk ethics - Stealing specifically - Page 2

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  1. #21
    scrapdollar's Avatar
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    I figured this would be a good thread to ask for help in finding the thread that has the links to check if a computer/electronics are stolen....I can't remember who all gave links, but I think Scrapette was one. I have searched but it still eludes me.
    Thanks in advance.



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrapdollar View Post
    I figured this would be a good thread to ask for help in finding the thread that has the links to check if a computer/electronics are stolen....I can't remember who all gave links, but I think Scrapette was one. I have searched but it still eludes me.
    Thanks in advance.
    Is this the one you were refering to?

    http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/day-l...lad-i-was.html
    P & M Recycling - Specializing in E-Waste Recycling.
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  3. #23
    scrapdollar's Avatar
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    Mechanic688, but no that wasn't the site, I moved the question to
    http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/lets-...html#post89210

  4. #24
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    I bet the tax man gets an alert when anyone mentions "Great Score" aswell, or.. "today I cashed in 800lb's of #1 copper"
    there are many key words that people say online that triggers a reaction somewhere down the line.
    but yeah, makes you think that everything we have ever written online, no matter if deleted or not is still visible today,
    you can't escape from it really, like now, I say the word.. BOOM! that has just triggered off the pc that is tracking the word, BOOM.
    there, did it again, reckon I say that one more time i'll have the feds dragging me away for questioning.

    scrappers ethics do need to be pushed apon the scrapperhood, for sure.
    infact i'm going over all my posts so far to make sure I didn't say anything silly like in conversation with a little added sugar on top.
    sometimes it's tempting to exaggerate here 'cos if I told you I had 8kg's of copper, half a bucket of aluminium and a tote bag of wires,
    i'll soon be squashed as the next post will be of joe bloggs and his squillion pounds of high grade cpu's he offloaded for top dollar on the way to a huge pickup of telecom boards and getting paid 5 hunj' to pick it up!

    stealing is bad karma, it always comes back to bite you on the bum, only harder.
    it's a fine line I think, defining what is stealing and what's not to a scrapper, I can see how after a while of picking all this great stuff out there for free, one can get into a comfort zone to expect most things lying around can be taken, i'm not sure how to explain it but in my short time i've noticed myself, I have a tendency to see most things as a scrap item, walking down the street is a bit like a kid in a candy shop, you want everything but can only get what you can afford or in this case what is being thrown out, like a mower on a nature strip, on it's own, is most likely to cut the grass it's sitting on, wonder how many mower owners have done that, went in for a cuppa or a slash, come back and it's gone!.

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  6. #25
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    Trash night saw a kids bike at the curb. When I got out of the truck I realized it was a couple of feet from the trash that was piled all together. Couldn't bring myself to take it.
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  7. #26
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    Scrap theft irritates the hell outta me i am a legitimate scrapper i pay taxes on the metal i scrap have d.o.t #'s workmans comp and gen liabiolty to $1million yet i still get grouped in with the tweakers because that"s what people see on the way to klein

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrapdollar View Post
    I figured this would be a good thread to ask for help in finding the thread that has the links to check if a computer/electronics are stolen....I can't remember who all gave links, but I think Scrapette was one. I have searched but it still eludes me.
    Thanks in advance.

    Sorry but I just now saw this - one site I heard about - but haven't used yet - is called leadsonline.com.
    It's a site the local police use.
    Last edited by Scrapette; 09-07-2012 at 02:41 PM.
    Success consists of going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm...... Churchill

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrapdollar View Post
    I figured this would be a good thread to ask for help in finding the thread that has the links to check if a computer/electronics are stolen....I can't remember who all gave links, but I think Scrapette was one. I have searched but it still eludes me.
    Thanks in advance.

    I almost got involved in a scrap theft by accident. I was trying to help a guy I didn't know find rope to tie down some scrap on the back of a car.

    He was the friend of some of my brother's tenants. Anyway, a few hours later the police busted him for stealing the metal from another scrapper! They ended up not pressing charges but it made me aware of the need to be much more careful.
    Last edited by Scrapette; 09-07-2012 at 02:39 PM.

  11. #29
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    It must be legit..as a buyer if it looks wrong I turn it down, I have lost customers for doing that but that's fine with me. I can not tell if every item is legit, that is impossible.. I look for the condition of the load overall. Working items brought in for scrap arouse suspicion,no ID no sale, no exceptions, and its all on camera. So far so good (knock on junk!!). We will set a good example and a high standard for the future.

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  13. #30
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    I was talking to a worker in the yard this summer and he showed me a 50 page Do Not Buy List single space list of names. Allot of times you will see printouts on the scales of material that has been stolen. I overheard a guy up the street said he ran a load to the yard and it was all brass. He was arrested on the spot. Turns out the guy he ran the load for stole it from a family members machine shop. I would never haul someone elses stuff to the yard.

  14. #31
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    I have seen several members on this forum bring up the golden rule of scrapping on SMF:
    "If you have to ask if something is right/wrong, legal/illegal, or morally sound/questionable, it's not worth doing!"
    That's been a good guideline for everything, not just scrapping.

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  16. #32
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    Here in Metro Detroit, we're legally obligated to submit our daily transactions to Leads On-Line, and are also obligated to be subscribed to ScrapTheftAlert.com. Between these two services we are submitting the daily activity of our transactions, making an available database to the police of all our customers, and what they brought in. Then with Scrap Theft Alert, we're being made aware of what's being reported stolen to keep an eye out for it at the scales. Both are similar services as to what a pawn shop must use.

    Both are great services, but I can say from a local stand point I don't believe either tool is used enough on the police-side of things. In their defense, though, most of the legal battles we've witnessed as a result from these programs typically ends in a drastically reduced plea deal, or the suspect getting away almost scott free. It seems the only way to get a solid conviction for the "good guys" is to catch someone red-handed. Probably hurts the morale a bit on the police-side.

  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicMetals View Post
    Here in Metro Detroit, we're legally obligated to submit our daily transactions to Leads On-Line, and are also obligated to be subscribed to ScrapTheftAlert.com. Between these two services we are submitting the daily activity of our transactions, making an available database to the police of all our customers, and what they brought in. Then with Scrap Theft Alert, we're being made aware of what's being reported stolen to keep an eye out for it at the scales. Both are similar services as to what a pawn shop must use.

    Both are great services, but I can say from a local stand point I don't believe either tool is used enough on the police-side of things. In their defense, though, most of the legal battles we've witnessed as a result from these programs typically ends in a drastically reduced plea deal, or the suspect getting away almost scott free. It seems the only way to get a solid conviction for the "good guys" is to catch someone red-handed. Probably hurts the morale a bit on the police-side.
    The problem is that laws like this tend to keep honest people honest. Some desperate junkie doesn't really care if he gets caught stealing. It just adds a layer of work that further reduces the honest mans price at the scale because money is spent on labor to record, upload, etc.

    Yes, the difference between getting caught taking something is burglary a serious crime. After it gets o the yard it is simply receiving stolen property. The difference is years vs. probation or a fine.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

    Albert Einstein

  18. #34
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    Our GM and I were discussing scrap laws this morning, and we got on the topic of one specific law put upon the scrap yards indicating that we're not allowed to purchase scrap from any person who has previously been convicted of scrap metal theft. Which seems TOTALLY logical, and a decent rule at a glance.

    However - they don't provide any sort of system or anything to keep the yards informed of WHO'S being convicted of scrap metal theft! It causes us to have a little disclaimer on receipts saying the person is proclaiming they've never been convicted of scrap metal theft, which they sign...thereby putting the responsibility onto the customer. Now if a person is criminal enough to go and STEAL items to bring in and scrap, I'm going to guess 100 times out of 100 they're going to be dishonest enough to be willing to falsely sign off on that statement.

    Just another example of laws sounding all good and well up at the legislative level in response to bad news articles and press, but in practicality and application - they fall short. It seems with a lot of law changes and "action" towards combating scrap thefts, they try to make the recyclers the villains rather than making them allies to help solve the issues. They don't see the constant visits from police, frequent subpoenas for my employees to testify in court, etc. also costs us money - we have a common enemy!!

  19. #35
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    you actually expect law makers and enforcers to do their jobs, when they can make you do it for them. wow what a concept.
    "anyone who thinks scrappin is easy money ain't doin it right!"

  20. #36
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    I was fairly recently contacted by someone in the hopes that I might help them with a stick mess their elderly mother got herself into, buying "gold pin drops" off ebay.

    This disgusts me, that there are people out there in the world, pretending to refine precious metals, ripping people off.

    What I am specifically talking about are the ebay auctions that are selling globs of metal that really only amount to melted pins and contain less than 1% gold. Click the link below and scroll through. There are even some people laying a gold coin right beside their useless glob of metals.

    gold pin drop | eBay

    So this 92 year old woman had her grandson bidding on auctions for her, he's only 11 years old so he didn't have a clue that the globs are fake fake fake. She purchased a lot of these globs thinking that she was securing her grand children's future, she's ill and doesn't expect to make to to next xmas. So she spent far more than she normally would for xmas.

    And I had to be the person to tell her, to listen to her sob on the phone as she told me this heartbreaking story. And honestly, I'm sickened. I have posted about this before on other forums, but I thought I would take the opportunity to post here, on this thread, for obvious reasons.

    Sometimes, in pursuit of money, people commit acts of greed that harm others. I don't believe this is any way to build a business. Just because you are honest in your post, does not mean what you are doing is right. The posts for this type of thing are worded craftily, with the intent to mislead people so that they pay far more for the material that it's worth. Regardless if you think your post is honest, it's not. Regardless if you think it's a case of buyer beware, it's not, it really amounts to theft, in a different form. Skinning innocent people that don't know any better is not a good business model. Fleecing people period is not a good business model, and not sustainable in the long run.

    So if there is anyone on this forum, who melts gold pins into globs of metal to see on ebay with the intent of deceiving, regardless of how "HONEST" you are being, so far as I am concerned you are a stealing and further more, so far as I am concerned, I will give you no quarter if you decide to post anything on metal globs and selling on ebay.

    Truly, I cannot even describe how disgusted I am that there are people out there in the world, that feel doing these types of things is acceptable behavior and defensible.

    Scott
    At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

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  22. #37
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    The posts for this type of thing are worded craftily... Regardless if you think your post is honest, it's not. Regardless if you think it's a case of buyer beware, it's not, it really amounts to theft, in a different form.
    When you hear the clopping of hooves, you think of horses- not zebras.

    It all comes down to deception and the intent of it. People even say several true statements as a means do deceive their audience and then insult them by telling them that it's their fault for buying into it.

    Every time someone gives me the "double talk" and says, " I didn't say exactly that." but that's exactly what you wanted me to believe. :confused:

  23. #38
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    I prefer to treat people how i would like to be treated. An pay everyone what there goods are worth. But as a business man i know its not always possible for both sides to be happy. But the costs are all figured in. Thought id add something to the ethics thread instead of talking about stolen vs legal merchandise.
    Last edited by jghilino; 02-19-2013 at 10:57 AM.
    I buy and sell all types of scrap and escrap. I buy specialty and hard to sell escrap. I buy resale items. PM me or contact me at jghilino@hotmail.com
    I AM ACTIVELY BUYING ESCRAP OF ALL TYPES. BOARDS, RAM, CPUS AND MUCH MORE

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  25. #39
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    Other than the ethical part, the physical possibilities are: Just recently a group of young men in the area got caught steal copper and metal from people's camp properties, the end result one of them got 3 to 7 years in prison, the other 2 got 1 year each in the county pokey. During this same period a young man stealing copper from a abandon factory was electrocuted. I won't buy stolen or sell stolen, there are just to many consequences I am not willing to deal with.

  26. #40
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    Scrap theft and illegal dumping has hurt everyone whether they know it or not
    Old dogs care about you even when you make mistakes;
    God bless little children while they're still too young to hate


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