All Ebay Sellers Be Aware of a new Scam that will leave you high and dry!

*EDIT 2/22/16*
So here is the bottom Line: With all of my proof, Ebay didn't care about the Fraud, Paypal did not care he committed Fraud, Even my local Police Department said they would take a report, but wouldn't even hand it over to detectives. There is a HUGE loophole in Ebay, and as long as they allow deception, theft, and fraud to take place, hide behind policies and refuse to even listen to a 17 year seller, I'm taking my selling off of their site. This opens up every seller to fraud on a daily basis, it creates a breeding ground for scammers, and the scammers are now there and I assume multiplying like rabbits. You are left exposed, in an open field, naked and you have to hold your breath every single time you sell an item, and pray at night that someone doesn't come up with ANY, and I mean ANY excuse to return it- because if you get back: An Empty box, a box of phone books, a box of dog droppings, Ebay says "As long as the buyer shows a tracking number we refund them"
With this type of one sided "marketplace" I have a better chance of going back to straight scrapping, at least I can stand in front of a scale and see my items being weighed and getting paid.
I have learned more than I ever care to know how to get screwed in the past 2 weeks, and its a shame. Your item can be gone, your money you had.. for a brief minute in your Paypal account will be gone, and you'll be left with a worthless item, while someone enjoys the fruits of all your hard work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I am posting this not for pity or praise. I want to share a recent Selling Experience with you on Ebay and tell you all to BE CAREFUL!

I sold a Sunblade 150, it was pristine.
I packed the item in a Dell Computer Box, Put 1" House Foam on both sides of it and sandwiched it together, placing bubble wrap on the face and taping the foam together.
I bubble wrapped the Keyboard, Mouse and all other components separately and placed them in that box. I filled any "dead space" with enough bubble wrap to choke a horse so the computer could not shift.
Note I FAILED to place bubble wrap on the bottom of the computer.

But I took that box (H-Taped all seams top and bottom with strapping tape) and placed that box in a 2nd box. Filling any dead space (approx 1-2" all the way around) with crumpled newspaper.
Off the computer went.

Here is the scam:
Immediately upon receiving the item the buyer claims shipping damage and sends pictures of the heatsink breaking both lugs of the CPU socket. I see tool marks on the heatsink and ask for it to be returned.
The buyer immediately quotes Fed Ex shipping requirements that the item needed 2" of air cushioning on all 6 sides of the unit and because I didn't do that it was Damaged and I owe him all his money back!
Note: There is NO Carton (Cardboard shipping box damage at all)

I receive the item back, I inspect it, I see tool marks where the CPU has been Pried from underneath with a tool, not doubting myself and my observations but wanting to be 100% positive I take the computer to an IT repair shop, I have them assess the computer and draw their conclusions- they are the same- tampered with- NOT SHIPPING DAMAGE.

Ebay awarded him ALL of his money back. They stated because he had it returned- their policy is to give the buyer his $ back. I fought back and said "If I can prove tampering, that voids his buyer protection, which I did with indisputable proof" They still gave him his $ back, I now have a negative feedback after 16 years of flawlessness. I have also pulled all my auctions because I think setting myself up to get scammed again is just not smart.

My moral is this: Watch your backs out there. If you see or hear of this scam.. be glad you read this and will know that it is a scam.
I cannot offer any advice to fix it- Ebay hosed me, they didn't stand up for me, they didn't protect me. My only recourse now is to report it as fraud to the Police and file and IC3 report.
If you feel you have been scammed on Ebay, REPORT THE BUYER, again, I have no idea if this will do any good as this case is still fresh.

All I have now is this: Destroyed computer, with the extra bonus of having to pay to ship it, and pay to ship it back, a negative feedback (Because I stood up, called him out and asked him to explain,) and I'm out the $300 sale price.
Good Luck out there!

Sounds like you got a clown at ebay. I have had this same thing happen and ebay did side with them since they returned it. however they gave me my money as well stating sellers protection. I think i would call and talk to someone at ebay and get someone who knows what they are doing. Its like pulling teeth but if you dont mind spending time ont he phone you can reach someone there with a brain.

Sorry to hear you got shafted sledge, but I wouldn't let it keep you from selling on ebay. Unfortunately there are people out there who try and do such things, but the majority of people I've dealt with on Ebay are reasonable and fair, as your probably well aware of. I've been scammed once, but it was only for about $25 bucks, so I didn't take quite the hit you did. Ebay is notorious for siding with the buyer 99 percent of the time which is said, especially in a case like yours.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. This is exactly why I am running out of space. I have working items that I am not willing to trust to the mail. All I have done ebay wise is ask questions on this forum.

To the dudes post: the customer is always right. Even when its wrong

To answer some questions. I have spoken to at least 12 people at Ebay, I told them if I prove Tampering I should get my money. They won't give me a cent. Wish their was a number to call of a rep that knows something. I've called all times of the day, the night, the weekday and weekend. None said I can have my money back.. just the same answer- "He sent it back, so he gets his money back" I've heard cases of where the seller got $ back and scammer got $ back.. but I have no idea how to get it. I think Ebay's massive insurance policy should cover this.. but they won't let me have a penny!

This guy IMO is teaching sellers a packing lesson. I have spoken with another seller who also got hit with the same scam, from this guy, with the same verbiage! He is just as upset as I am! He also lost a $300 item, and I know of one other seller within the last month or so that probably got hit with the same.. another $300+ dollar item.

Someone in my travels of this asked me "What would be the point.. stealing a $300 computer?" My response is "$300 from me, $300 from the next guy, $310 from the next guy" $910 worth of items that with some repair can be as good as new. And if he will do this to get the item (Claim damage) I'm pretty sure he will claim damage to anyone selling him replacement parts to fix them.. $910 of free items/$ in a month is a pretty good living for a thief as a side job!

I don't understand the point of this. How is it a scam if the buyer didn't get anything out of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste

I don't understand the point of this. How is it a scam if the buyer didn't get anything out of it?

---

The buyer costs the seller two cases of shipping- to and from.

But, Sledge forced the buyer to return the item. If he didn't, the buyer would have a $300 computer.

By the way, I saw photos of the PC. In my professional opinion, I don't see how the damages present could be anything other than the result of tampering.

There is no protection for an ebay seller that I have seen except under the following which happened to me.

About three years ago I had a buyer demand a full refund before he sent an item back for no good reason. I was very reasonable with my request asking what to was wrong with the item.

His response included a threat to give me negative feed back if I didn't refund his money. I contacted ebay and got told repeatedly to refund the money. That went on until I got one of the ebay reps to read the messages between the buyer and me. Ebay sided with me and removed the negative feed back and I didn't have to refund the money.

The next scam I got with ebay was the buyer contested the payment from their ebay account that was connected to a credit card. The contested payment was initiated at their bank. The card holder claimed they didn't authorized the purchase and someone else must have.

I lost about $10 on that. I was pissed. An ebay rep said they could contact the bank of the credit card used and have them investigate. The bank came back and sided with their card holder and ebay charged ME $30 on behave of the bank. I did not know this $30 charge was coming.

There are many ways to get ripped off. I'm still selling on ebay but understand why anyone could get Pissed and quit. Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste

I don't understand the point of this. How is it a scam if the buyer didn't get anything out of it?

---

So 2 weeks ago I had a $300 piece of equipment and sold it. I then had $300 in my Paypal account, right now I have $0, Minus $40 in shipping fees, Minus another $40 for the 3rd Party Assessment and a scrap computer. Feeling like I got pretty scammed on my end!

First of all...stop fearing your feedback percentage.

I'd rather take a neg and NOT get scammed again by other scammers who see my feedback response. Why? Because they read it and know I will not budge, ever.

Second, recently I bought tamper tape. A whole roll of it, I stick it to anything that should not be coming apart. In addition for items WITH tamper tape on them, that tape is visible in the pictures. In addition to THAT it's in the return policies and the descriptions. What you describe isn't so much loss of money as it is loss of TIME. Time is precious and I can't buy more of it therefore I'd just as soon be done with someone trying to scam me in the first place. Document everything you send, send pictures of the ACTUAL item even when you relist always take new pictures...even of CPUs...why? Because ebay knows when you use new pictures.

Lastly, I don't expect everyone to spend their time or remember to do all this stuff so take it into consideration about selling things yourself versus collecting money by short selling it to a buyer here.

Some additional advice sledge...that sunblade had a serial number...both on the board and when you look it up using bios or in the OS using cpu-z or something similar. Documentation. I cannot possibly say that enough. My ma holds the video camera when I receive returns so I can unbox them and inspect their serials/tamper tape and so forth.

I have a webcam set above my shipping station, that feeds into a computer system, where it's stored by date. I can easily retrieve the footage from whatever day I shipped, and watch myself pack (And hear my bad Def Leppard singalong that I'd rather not) ;)

I've never had to use the footage in a case, but one buyer was claiming that they didn't receive part of their order. I told them that I'd personally review the security camera footage to see. They never responded....

I bet after Mudlucky reads this he just figured out why my workstation has a webcam lol.

Cheap insurance! Plus, it's not like any of us don't have extra computers lying around ;)

AGW:
EXCELLENT advice sir! I'm going to look for some of this "tamper tape"
To answer your questions. I take pictures of my items (actual items, never stock pictures) on this particular item I took pictures of all 6 sides of the computer as well as 2 pictures of it inside, as well as the booted to bios screen!
I did assess that this was indeed my motherboard, I actually did take a picture of the serial number that was on the side of the PC case and it was in the auction as well.

Matador and I have been having discussions and the idea of having a record of all packing via webcam is starting to seem like a good idea.. although seems like B.S. we all have to do that- but alas, it appears we have to in order to survive on Ebay.

What is the motivation of the buyer? The only thing I can think of is a case of buyer's remorse. He certainly didn't get anything out of the transaction ... confusing.

Too bad we all don't have a lawyer in the family. Sending a letter from a law firm, especially if it's from multiple parties, might get some results.

Hipo:
In this case he got nothing from me personally, I wanted it back. But within the last month or so, 2 Other sellers have been scolded for their "inadequate packaging" and he has KEPT the items. Some repairs and he is sitting on $610 worth of stuff. Had I fallen for it, he would have $910 worth of stuff.

Believe me, I know that this sounds insane, I know that there are people saying "What is the point?" And I'm thinking THAT is what he is hoping for- $300ish items, under the radar. But committing fraud is fraud.. whether it is $300, $20 or $10,000. He wanted "something" for "nothing" I caught him, sadly the other two sellers did not. But I am in contact with 1 of the 2. I explained what I was told by him and he is FURIOUS.. he got the same story and scolding that I did, and initially he allowed him to keep it. Now he is trying to dig in a bit deeper on it!

There's no way to prove the claim that I'm about to make, but just think about it for a second:

Another IT shop and I both agree that Sledge's computer was opened and broken via force that was the result of tampering. Now, was that tampering done before, or after the return request was initialized? Because, if it was after, that means that the item arrived in perfectly working condition. In this case, the buyer has a free, undamaged computer that they can do whatever they please with, and the seller has just lost the sales price and shipping costs.

I can't prove whether the buyer damaged the computer before contacting Sledge, or after to retaliate, but you never know....

I want to add to the "what is the point?". The point of the "buyer" damaging and sending back the damaged item is to substantiate his claim and comply with ebay rules. He is using ebay policies to scam sellers out of their product. By complying with ebay policy of returning this item keeps him and his account in good standing. He needs to keep it in good standing in order to continue his scams.

On the videoing of the packaging process, how much memory does it take up? I've not done any videoing so I am not familiar with the storage requirements.

Is there any reason to believe that any ebay representative would take the time to view your video? One of my main complaints about ebay is you don't get to continue with a single ebay rep though out an investigation.

Thanks for the thread, Mike

@Miked- It really depends on the format of the video you're shooting. Bandwidth and Storage Calculator | StarDot TechnologiesThis tool should give you some idea. An hour of HD 1080p video = 18GB. Hope this helps.

First, with ebay's new policies, your seller rating wont get dinged any more from poor feedback or returns. They are changing the way your rating is calculated and that wont factor in as much.

Second, ebay will ALWAYS side with the buyer. I've called them on this many many times and they wont acknowledge it as policy, but it is. It wont stop me from using ebay as i consider this a cost of doing business, but it can really frustrate a person if you let it.

Third, dont waste your time with all the video recording and photography. It "might" help in a case, but probably not. Pack the item as best as you can and get it to the buyer fast. If someone is going to scam you there is not much you can do about it. The time and effort can be used more constructively elsewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miked

I want to add to the "what is the point?". The point of the "buyer" damaging and sending back the damaged item is to substantiate his claim and comply with ebay rules. He is using ebay policies to scam sellers out of their product. By complying with ebay policy of returning this item keeps him and his account in good standing. He needs to keep it in good standing in order to continue his scams.

---

Exactly correct Mike.. Very well articulated!
Thank you!!

Unfortunatley I am nowadays the same with eBay. I used to be quite into selling on there, and buying in bulk for refurbishing things.
After dealing with the unwritten eBay policy of "The buyer is always right and must always be encouraged to keep buying" I now only sell very few items, non electrical, no moving parts, easily ensured by standard postage protection insurance etc. etc. etc.

Maybe in the future should you get such comp to sell, you could go to the comp shop and say "hey! how much is this worth? dya want it?" instead of "my buyer returned this... I need a second opinion on why...!"

O AND BECAUSE"!
BE WARY OF THIS"

Not all that long ago I got into buying customer returns and liquidated stock from a nearby national auction house (UK so won't bother saying who, and you never know who's watching), it quickly became apparent an awful lot of poeple were up to the same thing I was, buying these goods cheap as possible and seeing what they can getworking and selling it.
Big difference... the scale to which they were working on was far greater than my own. As I came close to increasing my overall production I started noticing action on my ebay account from people much closer to home than I'd like to say.
Actively watching my items, copying and pasting my pictures and descriptions AND running similar scams mentioned here. Where the buyer has 100% protection so long as they return and the seller has to foot potentially 2-5 shipping costs.
TBH, looking at it. Maybe all that needs its own topic, but hey ho

A couple Pictures may assist in this thread:
What I sent:
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...70010428_o.jpg

What I was told was Shipping Damage and returned to me:
BENT and Toolmarked Heatsink!
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...85769492_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...65529015_o.jpg

Both CPU Socket Lugs Broken
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...14477041_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...80306763_o.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sledge

A couple Pictures may assist in this thread:
What I sent:
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...70010428_o.jpg

What I was told was Shipping Damage and returned to me:
BENT and Toolmarked Heatsink!
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...85769492_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...65529015_o.jpg

Both CPU Socket Lugs Broken
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...14477041_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...80306763_o.jpg

---

This should have NEVER gotten past ANYONE with a brain...if enough money involved I would demand arbitration (you have that right BTW per Ebay's TOS)....you CANNOT damage a heatsink like that as it is ATTACHED to the motherboard STRONGLY via 2 clips. There are NO moving parts that can hit the **** thing...ie it basically hangs off the motherboard with nothing in there that moves. I would call BS BS BS and go up the chain. Assuming you have the top cover on the computer, the only thing that COULD be damaged would be the computer case itself...ie the STEEL COMPUTER CASE (unless the entire thing was completely destroyed...like it fell 20 feet and the case exploded).

I will say I HAVE fought and WON 2 instances in the last year or so...so you CAN win. ONE I had to go up the chain on and get it reviewed...but I was persistent. It was not alot of money, but I am kind of a DI$% when you pull SH$% with me. Again, the pic you had plus the fact that anyone who has ever seen the inside of a computer would show that there was no damage when shipped and NO way it could have been damaged in shipping. I also have a NO RETURN POLICY stated on all my auctions....granted alot of mine are sold in the "parts" category, so I do not guarantee ANYTHING on them...it is as is where is.

My computer for recording is just an old Core 2 Duo Gateway desktop. I stuffed a 400GB hard drive in there, but I haven't used much. My OS is on a separate drive- I set it up that way, so I could remove the storage drive when full. But, it's taking so long to fill, that I'll be able to purge the old records by the time it's full.

I can check on Monday if you'd like to know how much space I've actually used.

Couple things...it's entirely possible they needed the chip, or a chip on the board...or any combination of things that required them to purchase your computer. I get this alot actually. Every 15 or so laptops sold someone says it arrived with a broken screen...sure, send it back, no problem. Get it back...the anti-tamper measures I used are broken. Hmmm. Contact buyer, hi rez pictures sent to them "I received this back with tamper marks on it as indicated here, here and here. I can A. mail it back to you for no charge (yea...I know) B. Accept it back for a partial refund that mitigates the damage and my time (after all I am a medium scale wholesaler...) or I can contact ebay and open a case. I just do not play around, there are too many measures in place for me to get caught in the average scam.

Also, if your running capture software, reduce your framerate to 4/second or even 2/second Mine will run for an entire week before it fills up a 80GB. And since we don't really do anything with those anymore...fill it up, set it aside...once the 90 day expiration passes for all ebay processes, it can go back into circulation.

To bad you got scamed Sledge, I never sold computer's on EPay but I used to sale bicycle's and part's on there which I know longer due because of the same problem you had DAMAGE, MISSING PART'S?? After bike and or part's returned they were missing part's are was not what I shipped and I lost out, NO recourse. I only sell my ram and rivet's on EPay right now which I'm about to stop as I have a claim now about a box of rivet's I sold. My rivet's are 3/16 large flange rivet's for stock car driver's to hold there body panel's on, I sell them in bag's of 100, 200 and 500. My great grand kid's age's 5 and 6 count these rivet's and bag them for me, and I do pay them to do this. I sold a box of 500 rivet's to a buyer and he said he was short 1 rivet, now he want's his monies back, 1 rivet, LOSER

Dismantling a Dell 2500 Server today and knew it had the Same Socket (PGA370) as the Sunblade 150. I took a Flathead screw driver, placed it where I believe the scammer did (Between the Heatsink and the chip)- Lifted Upward, and look at that, broke both lugs nearly identical to his break pattern!
Imagine That!
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...97417188_o.jpg

Test #2 Today on another server with the same socket.
On this test I took the Server and Held It above my head (I am 6' 1" Tall) and Forcefully SLAMMED the server onto Concrete with only a thin standing mat on the floor between the server and the concrete.
First Try Heatsinks were both Still Attached
Second Slam from the same height (Above My head and Slammed with as much force as I could produce) Finally unseated the heatsinks on CPU sockets.
Note that there is a "nick" on one lug, and only one lug (The bottom one)
It did not break both lugs.
Also look at the absolute destruction of the outer case after these two forced drops.

https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...71021911_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...08296339_o.jpg
https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...79334575_o.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miked

There is no protection for an ebay seller that I have seen except under the following which happened to me.

About three years ago I had a buyer demand a full refund before he sent an item back for no good reason. I was very reasonable with my request asking what to was wrong with the item.

His response included a threat to give me negative feed back if I didn't refund his money. I contacted ebay and got told repeatedly to refund the money. That went on until I got one of the ebay reps to read the messages between the buyer and me. Ebay sided with me and removed the negative feed back and I didn't have to refund the money.

The next scam I got with ebay was the buyer contested the payment from their ebay account that was connected to a credit card. The contested payment was initiated at their bank. The card holder claimed they didn't authorized the purchase and someone else must have.

I lost about $10 on that. I was pissed. An ebay rep said they could contact the bank of the credit card used and have them investigate. The bank came back and sided with their card holder and ebay charged ME $30 on behave of the bank. I did not know this $30 charge was coming.

There are many ways to get ripped off. I'm still selling on ebay but understand why anyone could get Pissed and quit. Mike

---

As we all know ebay and paypal are sisters, the problem started when the credit card processors warned paypal they were getting to many charge backs and that if this were going to continue at the current rate the processors would discontinue accepting credit card transactions for paypal.

Credit card transaction probably account for 90 percent of paypal's transactions, a disruption in credit card transactions would send the share holders in a frenzy, share value would plummet, So the sister companies came up with buyer protection which opened the door to buyer fraud putting the burden onto the seller.

The sisters effectively eliminated the credit card charge backs saving face with the share holders, but losing favour with ebay sellers. Ebay is just a small portion of her sister company's income so turning a blind eye to seller complaints is no big deal.

I've been an ebay member from June of 1998 and have seen many changes over the years, most of them no good. The worse was when ebay went public with their IPO from that day forward the mom and pop sellers had no further value.

miked I have had paypal dip into my bank account three times for the same transaction, the first two times my account was shy of what they wanted to withdraw then when the account had a favourable balance hammered it for three withdrawals totalling $90.00 not to mention the NSF charges from the bank

This happened because I have bank as my primary source of payment had it been credit card could have saved myself some money from the thieves.

This was due to an ebay transaction that my buyer put in a claim for, as I mentioned earlier I've been an ebay seller since June of 98 my feedback had been 100 percent from buyers around the globe, then the buyer protection policy changed all this,

My strategy nor my offerings had changed, If I have to subsidize my buyers at my expense there is something drastically wrong with that picture my only option is to quit selling at a loss.

I no longer sell anything on ebay.

Thanks for the heads up. whether or not I was being scammed, you made me question the transaction. It was sent insured through FedEx (congrats Denny Hamlin on the Daytona win!). I should be able to get my money back from them for the costs associated with the damaged plate.

This has happened to me on a few occasions. Ebay has always sided with the buyer. One time I sold a pile of gold fingers. The buyer informed me that I sent hip copper fingers instead of gold. What happened was he stripped the fingers and opened up a case on me claiming that I sent him washed material. When he mailed the stuff back to me there wasn't a lick of gold on the material. Next time this happens I am going to take a picture of some rocks next to the ebay box and claim the buyer never mailed the material back..... Eye for an Eye!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrappin4Pnuts

This has happened to me on a few occasions. Ebay has always sided with the buyer. One time I sold a pile of gold fingers. The buyer informed me that I sent hip copper fingers instead of gold. What happened was he stripped the fingers and opened up a case on me claiming that I sent him washed material. When he mailed the stuff back to me there wasn't a lick of gold on the material. Next time this happens I am going to take a picture of some rocks next to the ebay box and claim the buyer never mailed the material back..... Eye for an Eye!!!

---

Your betting against a stacked deck, the house of cards has been built and glued together for the buyers protection policy. No matter how much you huff and puff all your going to accomplish is to hyperventilate - ebay isn’t going to give you a get out of jail free card.

Wish for your sake your proposed actions would have a winning effect but a leopard does not change its spots.

Any time I sell I will ALWAYS insure the package if it is more than I want to gamble. I just sold a plate that was broken in shipping that was insured and I am relatively certain I will get my money back because I sent it FedEx insured. USPS is worthless as far as their insurance goes, so if it is too expensive to take the hit, fork out the extra bucks and save yourself some headache.

The funny thing about insurance is this. I PROVED that this was not shipping damage. That was my fight with the "buyer" all along. The woman on Ebay last night (Yes I tried AGAIN) said "Did you insure it?" I said "Of Course I did" She said "Why not file a claim with FedEx for damage?" I responded "Are you serious? I PROVED this was not shipping damage- I'm sure as heck not going to file a claim with FedEx and have them pay for something that wasn't their fault" Oh my freakin goodness- these Ebay Reps are seriously screwed up!

I bet this scammer would have filed a claim with FedEx if it was his right to do so- $300 off me, and a FedEx claim to boot for another $300. That'll be next. Ebay will stronghold FedEx because of their volume into taking Buyer Damage claims too- so not only sellers can get screwed, but Double their $ when they get a shipping damage claim paid by FedEx.

Found the Ebay problem...

http://www.hottlefarms.com/photogall...pportclose.jpg