need advice on wood splitting

So there's this old timer in town who like me, has his hand in a little bit of everything. Trash hauling, scrap metal, fire wood etc.... I've been BSing with him for well over a year when I see him at the dump etc. Well he flagged me down yesterday as I drove past his property. Says he's getting too old for this s#!t and asked me if I wanted to cut and split 400 (yes 400) cords of wood for him in the spring. I said of course! Here's the problem....... I know that spliting a cord of wood that's in rounds alrighty is 25 bucks a cord. (The young buck that works for me and I can knock 10 cords out a day on a bad day) 15 on a good day) BUT what I don't know is what to charge him for cutting the logs up into rounds? Some of these logs are 3-4 feet across...... I have everything I need to do the job except a HUGE chain saw which I'm working on getting now.
So, how much do I charge him for cutting the logs into rounds??

P.S. I have a feeling this will be an every year thing til he dies........

Around here, 30$, cut split and piled, per cord. That is from a standing tree, your fuel and saw.

I usually figure around eight to ten man hours per cord from long log to split. Just depends on if it's 24" or 16" lengths. ( Sixteens are about 1/3 more work.)

Are you using a a splitter or just an axe? If you use or rent a splitter, make sure to factor in the time moving it.

Around here, the difference between rounds and split wood is about $25 per cord.

Boy, the value of sweat is pretty low when it comes to straight out brawn work!! $25-30 for 8-10 hours work. It doesn't get much worse than that!

The thing I wonder about is that the size of a cord is pretty loose when you talk to a lot of people. Most don't seem to realize just how much wood fits into 128 cubic feet. And then theres the old "face cord". Its just as bad as how they buy steel scrap....ton, metric ton, net ton, fzk the seller ton, etc.

My back hurts just thinking about it.

Full disclosure: I heat my house with wood. 2 stoves. We have to run them both when it gets much below freezing. It was built in 1930 and has no insulation, but the renovations are slowly fixing that. And yes, I cut and split my own wood, but use machines to help. But Scrappah comes pretty close to my estimation....8 hours per full 4' x 4' x 8' cord of wood.

Jon. (wishing he lived a little further south)

I have my own splitter. Its big.... 40 ton. Its mounted on a 4x8 utility trailer. Just the splitting of rounds is $25. Not from log to split.

where I grew up it was measured in full cords. where I live now is face cords. that comment about $30 a cord is most likely face cord

We are getting $50 a cord up here in MI

Ummmmm You need to move that operation East... Last year in NJ I paid $175 for split and delivered chord of wood. We burned 7 chords last year and it wasn't great wood. All the best with it either way.

A cord ( 128 cuft) of stove length hardwood averages about 300.00 - 350.00 USD around here.

Btu for btu it's roughly on par with fuel oil, propane,electric, and pellets. Maybe a bit less.

I burn softwood and process it myself. Figured my costs were about 75 cents per million btu's as opposed to fuel oil which was running at 21.00 USD per million btu's.

I rent a splitter as opposed to owning one. If i apply myself, i can usually bust up 2.5 to 3 cord a day.

With 400 cord to split it might be worth investing in a four way. The limiting factor with a wood splitter is the cycle time on the ram. If you can double your production per stroke it can really step up your game. :)

ETA: You might check out this firewood processing setup. These guys are running heavy equipment and can really bang the work out. It said on the written intro at youtube that they sell 300 - 400 cord a year. That's about on par with what you're aiming for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgYdKNbblGw

This would get it done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQCA-mTzjs

That bobcat attachment is a lovely little dodad. Its pretty fast, too...he must have a decent sized auxilary pump on the loader.

I'll bet it will set you back one h*ll of a lot of copper wire!! Anyone know what it costs? $25K?

Jon.

Guys, I think he's just talking about this guy getting him to do the work of cutting and splitting the wood for him. I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10 foot stick. You can find people on Craigslist all day long giving away standing and felled timber. You're doing all the work and only getting $25-30 bucks a cord....that's crazy. You could get your own wood for next to nothing and turn around and sell it for $150-$200 per cord delivered and stacked. I'd definitely go with at least a 18-20 ton log splitter. You can pick up a new one for $800-900 or a used one cheaper. These use less fuel and are more dependable. Make sure it has a two stage pump and a decent size motor; at least 7hp. I sold firewood when I was younger. If I can give you one tip....cut, split, and load your wood at the same site. This equals less handling. If you have an order, take it straight to the buyer instead of stock piling and stacking it. I couldn't afford a big splitter when I was younger, so in one season I sold 45 full cords that was split using a 6 ton electric splitter. I used a splitting maul and wedges to get the big pieces into more manageable pieces. I bought a trailer off Craigslist for $300 that worked great. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Firewood is extremely hard and dangerous work regardless of what you're using. Plan on averaging a half cord an hour if the wood is already cut. You can only split was fast as your splitter can split, and they're not lightening fast.

If'n I was gonna do some production splitting, I would look real hard at those splitters that are mechanical, non-hydraulic. They use a rack and pinion gearset and some flywheel action. They're the same idea as a hydraulic splitter, just store the energy a little differently. But they are quite fast. Take a look on Youtube.

Unless you are in some hardwoods that are very tough to split, then something a little smaller and faster would make the job quicker.

I was surprised a year or two ago with the little imported electric 4-6 ton hydraulic splitters that could be had for $200. I figured they weren't worth a cr*p. Wanted a gazillion ton splitter I could bolt to the back of my Cat tractor. Well, a friend brought over a electric splitter and after a couple of hours I was like..."I need me one of them". Granted, I'm in softwood country: Pine, Fir, Larch. The hardwoods we have her are Birch, Poplar, Cottonwood (yes, I burn it, too!). The hardest stuff I split is apple wood, and the few pieces my little toy won't handle gets the chainsaw splitting treatment.

The only drawback is the slowness of the electric splitters. And the stupid controls that require you to have 2 hands on the controls so you won't cut your hand off... So how do you hold the block in place without a third hand. Safety nazis...bleah.

Someone mentioned that $25 splitting cost might be for a face cord--one row of wood 4 x 8. Still kinda low priced, considering the final selling price of the product. Are the raw logs THAT costly? Around here you can get them for free.

Jon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawmilleng

That bobcat attachment is a lovely little dodad. Its pretty fast, too...he must have a decent sized auxilary pump on the loader.

I'll bet it will set you back one h*ll of a lot of copper wire!! Anyone know what it costs? $25K?

Jon.

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Found a 2 year old model for 30k. A 5 year old model for 25k.

I agree with Scrappinlife . Garbriel - that seems way to cheap to me or maybe I'm just showing my age and lack of stamina. Realize a true cord of wood is 4 feet high X 4 feet deep X 8 feet long tightly stacked. I use two pallets that are 48x48 inches together and stack them full to 4 or 5 feet tall
to measure my progress.Been burning wood for heat here in CT for years. I don't turn on the boiler for heat unless its in in the single digits. I burn 6-7 cords a season and burn 24/7 to heat 2200 SF. I use a Timberwolf gas splitter with a 4way attachment that turns one log into 4 pieces. and have not run across anything I could not split with it but the cycle time is slower that I would like it to be. I just split a cord on Sunday- took 2 of us 2 hours to completely split and stack a full cord. When I started burning I could get an almost unlimited supply of wood for free but as heating oil went up more and more people jumped on the " woodwagon". I still get if free though it takes more effort to source it. This year a seasoned cord of split and delivered ( not stacked) mixed woods is about $200.00 a cord here. My logic is-- if I have to buy it then I might as well just turn on the boiler- but as long as I get get it for free and just put in the sweat equity to turn it to cord wood then so be it. I could use the fresh air and exercise.
Sorry for rambling Gabriel but personally I would look at all the factors involved and make sure it's worth your efforts ( alot of labor) or if you are making more $$ putting your efforts elsewhere.

< ----------- Scratches head

I dunno, i've been heating with wood for over 30 years now. I've also dabbled in it commercially. The numbers being thrown out seem to be all over the map. You can make money at this but you have to use your noggin and work smart. Like scrappinlife was saying though .......... it's hard dangerous work and quite frankly it gets tedious after awhile. It's a nice change of pace but if you're doing it day after day it gets old fast.

Just some random thoughts based on experience:

1: You don't want to be messing with a tree that's 3 - 4 feet in diameter. You're well out of your depth. You need a sizable investment in heavy equipment to manage that stuff. A big ole chainsaw isn't going to be enough. I tackled a tree that was 24" across the butt a few years ago but it cost me. About 2/3 the way through the job the piston / cylinder assy. on my saw lost compression. That ended up being a hundred bucks in parts and about six hours of lost time in the shop to fix it. It's debatable as to whether or not i made anything on the job after the setback.

2: You have to size the equipment to the type of work you're doing. I've owned an electric splitter and split with a splitting maul before. It's okay if you're doing a couple of cord a year for your own stove. If you're just doing stove length (16") it's a lot faster to split it by hand. If you run into a knotty piece cut it lengthwise with your saw. It's slow but it works well enough if you file the teeth on your chain the right way. There's not too much trouble with kickback.

The next step up is one of the nicer hydraulic jobbies with a decent motor from the big box store. They run around two grand. They all come from the same manufacturer but are sold under different brand names. The big difference is in the quality of the parts used to build it. The lower cost machines have cheaper hydraulic pumps and slower cycle times. The higher cost machines are geared up a little better and have faster cycle times. The overall design is good but it sucks working around the engine exhaust all day. If you had to work with em' day after day for weeks on end it would make you sick. Anyway .... these are fine for the average homeowner that's doing 8 - 12 cord a year but they won't hold up for commercial work.

For commercial work you need industrial quality gear and that gets expensive. You have to charge accordingly. If you're low level with a decent saw & splitter you should probably be charging 40.00$ / hr. for your time. The guys with heavy equipment are charging about 100 - 150.00 $ /hr these days on most jobs. It probably sounds like a lot but after you take out expenses there's not always a lot left over.