http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...-metal-thieves
pretty ridiculous i think. why dont they try to create jobs instead and maybe they wouldnt have these problems. what do you guys think?
Printable View
http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...-metal-thieves
pretty ridiculous i think. why dont they try to create jobs instead and maybe they wouldnt have these problems. what do you guys think?
I think the ones in Wis were needed to stop the freakin scrap metal thieves. :mad:
So no change for florida Sweet!
Pasco County, FL just passed a new ordinance on "restricted items" due to rise in metal theft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunemaul
I am expecting a big to do when I take in my hoard of coils and copper. Going to the yard in the morning to have a talk with the buyer to make sure I am able to comply,( I hate saying that!).
If it were not for thieves life would be so much better! People wonder why we jump all over stupid low down underhanded posts!
Edit; Forgot to mention, One subdivision has replaced all the street grates only to have them taken again one month later. Rent must have been due. Another subdivision had 14 AC units taken from empty homes. Luckily those guys got busted! They did create work but it was those two situations that broke the camels back and brought on the new ordinance.
Ouch thats gotta hurt.
No not to bad for me I'm an honest injun!
Unfortunately, as we all know, it does not help. The thieves are still going to steal that stuff, and then dump it in the woods if they can't find a buyer. Or sell it to someone who does not care that has the legit reasons to have said scrap.
I want to know what scrap yard is buying sewer grates without asking questions. That is where part of the problem lies. I suppose there is some guy that does municipal street work that has a reason to scrap these and brings them in after any rework job. Times are tight so he gets some punks to go around and gather some up for him. Who knows?
Sorry, it just boggles my mind that someone will steal and scrap something that they may get $20 for, but costs the home owner, insurance company, or city $1,000 or so to replace.
I hate thieves. And the people that buy from them are just keeping the problem going.In my life I have known many good old fashioned regular law abiding citizens that would never steal. However, someone comes along into the bar parking lot selling a truckload of brand new $1,000 generators for $300 that "fell off a truck", and they all go running to the cash station to get the money and buy one. If no one would buy them, then they would not have a reason to steal them. So the buyers of stolen goods are just as bad.
A guy I used to work for told me, never buy stolen tools or one day you will end up buying your own tools back. He followed it up with a story about his tools getting stolen one night before having a big work day the next day. He went to rush street and lo and behold his tools were being sold there with HIS social security number engraved into them. The police could not do a thing they told him. He bought them and went to work.
NOT buying anything that is stolen (or even smells of it) does help the situation.
/rant off Thieves suck. Period.
Figures the only thing florida is worried about is beer kegs. Injunjoe how far are you from marion county we have no such legislation here.
Love those Louisiana laws!!!!!
no Kris Kringle im sick of the government saying its all meth heads , how bout its unemployed people trying to feed their familes
I hate when new laws are passed to help enforce existing laws. especially when all it does is infringe on the rights of people that aren't breaking the laws. It's already against the law to steal. Law enforcement and legal, quit playing with your shiny new M16s and political aspirations and do your freakin job!
I'm convinced in part that the reason so many useless laws get passed is so they can claim they're doing something about it. Doesn't matter that it won't curb the problem, just so long as they can say "hey, we did something about it".
I think these laws are in fact a good idea. I live in NY. I am in law enforcement in NY. I am beyond fed up with going to peoples homes and watching them muddle through 1 foot of water because all of their copper has been hacksawed out of their home after coming home from work. I am fed up with people starting their cars in the morning only to be missing 1/2 of their exhaust system from converter thefts. Lets not mention the scared to death homeowners who walk in on these crimes, unkowingly as they are in progress. I can assure you, and I will say this with 100 percent truthfulness, I have NEVER arrested a legitamately "unemployed" person for committing such crimes. I wish we could be everywhere at once, but we too are facing cutbacks on manpower just like the rest of the work force. We are cathcing these people, but these types of instances are occurring at an alarming rate. We cant keep up. These laws are being ammended and enforced to help law enforcement identify suspects when they unload the proceeds. This helps law enforcement hold the "less than honest purchasers" responsible as well. They know what they are buying and have even gone as far as to pay 1/2 scrap value for these items. Big deal, show your ID get a reciept and scrap easy brothers! Now, I have to get back to touching my m-16.
The 64,000 question: Have the laws reduced metal theft?
I think it's created a booming underground metals market more than anything else.
For the record, I am not blaming law enforcement. We all would like to see thieves caught and prosecuted. I am talking about law after law that does nothing to solve the situation. How many laws do we need "DO NOT STEAL!". 1? 5? If we put 10 on the books will thieves then go "oh, okay. I'll stop"?
I said before I don't know what the answers are, but more laws and suffocating regulations aren't it.
IronPirate, nothing will stop a criminal. But at least it works as a deterent, a way to clamp down on their movements and a way to document their actions. It makes it harder to unload the booty, they will eventually just find another enterprise to exploit, this I know. This is egg on our faces as scrappers though. Example: Some of my patrol guys stopped a suspected theif today. He had a 5 gallon, metal bucket full of railroad spikes. We have a rail road that runs through our jurisdiction that sustained a lot of damage from hurricane Irene. Material had been dropped off ever 100 feet or so along the tracks for repairs. This subject decided to not only steal the spikes, but the 5 gal metal bucket to carry them in as well. He layed some legit scrap on top of the spikes then crumpled the top of the can inward so you could only see the legit steel showing from the top. Off to the scrap yard he was going. Worst part yet, he had been doing this successfully for over two weeks!!! Scrap yards should not be accepting these items, but they are. Why? When the rail road supervisor showed up, he explained that thieves have actually been damaging sections of track in an effort to remove the material that they are creating a grave risk of a derailment! I scrap. It helps supplement my salary and helps put the food on my table for my family, pay my mortgage. It helped put me through school. It keeps my self employed,father-in-laws head above water when there is no work. For some of you guys here, scrapping IS IT! This is your bread and butter. I know some laws really do suck, trust me. These laws do help us grab these scumbags by the shorties and get them dead to rights.
Wow, talk about coincidence. This article just popped up on Yahoo.
http://news.yahoo.com/scrap-metal-on...182724905.html
Until you shut down the "grey market" you'll never really get a handle on it. It's about following the money. I watch gypsy's come into the yard every day with their truckloads of non-ferrous and after dealing with some of them it's evident what's going on out there. Dang, that was a run-on sentence.
put some of the 6 ft 250 pound marine drill instructors right near the front gate of these scrap yards .. thieves will crap thier pants getting questioned by these guys and wont come back for a while lol
They already do that with copper and wire.
It is a great idea and like Freonjoe said, it is being done. Like every other good idea, politics get involved and rains on the parade. Things like, who enforces the violations come into play. Some jurisdictions are so thin with manpower and staffing right now, these inspections may be put on a "low priority" level. Then comes prosecution of the company (scrap yard). It takes big money to enforce these laws in the legal system with court fees, appeals etc. In NY, it takes alot to shut a business down for any reason, even temporarily. The politicians are afraid of backlash and law suits from the larger businesses. That is why there is such an underground market (gypsies) buying up things like copper left and right. They dont give a rats a** where it comes from. It is tought to find them too. They mostly drive unlettered trucks that blend in easily. They have a set route they follow and of course the sellers are not going to dime them in because they are getting top dollar for their copper. My suggestion, take down some plate numbers when you see them. Pass the information forward. We might all have to chip in a little to show we are just as sick of the thieves and scammers as everyone else is. This type of cooperation can maybe help prevent stricter, future restrictions. My prediction, the gov't is going to make this such and expensive venture that it would no longer benefit guys and gals like us continue scrapping. There will be licenses, permits for each township you drive through, not just states or counties and strict vehicular enforcement. Just my 02.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Kringle
Marion county is about 90 miles from me. I have about 1500 pounds of coil and I scrapped all the cabinets and other steel at the same yard I plan on using for the good stuff so I don't see a problem. Been busy with work so I have not had a chance to swing in and talk to them yet. I am now writing down the serial numbers down as we take the units out and having the home owner sign off on the ownership of said scrap along with a picture of the unit also on file.Quote:
Originally Posted by fordsix
If I have trouble with all my coil I have three counties that are not to far I can sell to.
uh I thought theft of any kind was already illegal. ? But then I guess we need more laws just in case.
lets look at where this is all leading.
case in point: little girl opens her home packed lunch at school, she has a turkey sandwitch a bannana. potatochips, and a couple of other items. A government agent sees the items and notices she has no veggies, the government agent, takes the lunch (theft), and makes the little girl eat a school lunch ( oooo yum, yum, ) then bills the mother for the lunch.
The analogy: Government agent sees hatchet jack smashing away at a tv with his hatchet. oops thats a no no chips may fly, you may be injured, the injury may get infected, you may get gang green, you may have your arm amputated, all of this will cost money you dont have, so it directly affects others, by raised insurence and medical costs. so give me that dam* hatchet here is a plasma cutter, a shredder for the plastic case and we sill remove the crt for you, to a safe location in India. oh an heres the bill $4000. this is the way the government thinks. they dont spend their own money, they don't have any. it is your money they are spending. they just can not understand the more restriction the apply, the less money they can extract from you.
you may think this is off point but it is not, it is all relitive.
theft is theft, we already have thousands of laws covering that, every new law has unintended consiquences and cost you money. what new laws do is make the government s job easier, by beeing able to keep a closer eye on the citizenry, new law means simply less freedom.
Old dude, I can see your point about school lunches. But to say laws equal less freedom is not even close to accurate. The goverment is watching you everday through your own volition. Your own willingness. That cell phone you have, your EZ Pass, your credit and debit cards, emails, google searches..... I can go on forever. Laws protect victims. Can some laws impede your freedom? Yes. Are some laws absolutely ridiculous, indeed. Did you know you cannot drive bare foot in NY? Or drink and drive. No not alcohol, but any beverage for that matter. These laws are rarely ever enforced and were put on the books waaayyy before we even thought about "Big Brother". How about this, Utilitity companies intend on installing "Smart Readers" on your home in place of meters. These smart readers will tell the utility companies everything from when you turn on your lights, tvs, blow dryers yada yada yada. Oldude, you better get some candles and a wood stove my friend cause if you think "laws" are impeding your freedom.....
do you really want marines stationed in variuos places asking for your papers, well if you do , relax, its comming.
If law enforcement would concintrate on real criminals and crime instead of things like broken tail lights, motorcycle helmets. windows tinted too dark. people talking on cell phones, seat belts. and a million other stupid laws may be they would have time for thieves, and other criminals. just sayin.
Helmet and seatbelt laws aren't stupid. I've survived more than my fair share of accidents because of them. I've been rear ended twice by people talking on their cell phones, both times on the freeway no less!
look up the railroad hijackings back in the 20s important documents and money from the mail kept getting stolen the us govt put a few marines to guard the trains and not one piece of mail was stolen after that ..
"Toward the end of 1926, the men of the 4th Regiment had an opportunity for something more exciting than garrison routine. A recrudescence of robberies of the United States mails, featured by a particularly brazen and bloody attack on a mailtruck at Elizabeth, New Jersey, on 14 October 1926, led to arequest by the Post Office Department for the services of theMarine Corps to bring the situation under control. The Marines
had been called upon once before to guard the mails, when a
similar situation had developed in the fall of 1921, and they
had quickly put a stop to the robberies. There had been
virtually no incidents after the Marines had entered the picture
on that occasion, and after they had been withdrawn in the
spring of 1922, the Post Office Department, having provided
itself with civilian armed guards, had been able to carry on
satisfactorily for some four years''
cited from Leatherneck.com
we can do that with metal and itll only take a few months to filter out the scumbags once they see theyre not making quick cash and getting grilled at the gates theyll find something else to steal then when most of its died down well go back to normal
Im not going to argue the point here , that is not whqat the forum is about. I will just bow out of this thread with this. I do not own any of the above, credit cards, gps, cell phone contracts ect for the very reasions you mentioned.
like I said if you want marines to protect you no problem its not far away.
the biggest part of freedom is personal responsability, self reliance. and common sence. the only need for laws is when any of those three are missing. these days they are all three absent from the lives of most Americans,
You made my point "they will move on to something else" how is that solving the problem.
you made my point. "they will move on to steal something else" that is exactly the way government solve problems. just paint them another color and move them down the line.
as far as protection, any truth full law enforcment person will tell you in most cases , they arrive not to save you or protect you but to clean up the blood and attempt to solve the crime that has already taken place..
every time national guard or marines were used on American soil. inocent Americans died. that is why the possie comattas law was passed. national guard and marineshave been used against , black Americans, native Americans, college students, striking miners , steel workers, and on and on, all with deadly results to inocent American citizens. most do not remember this great country was set up to be ruled by the citizens, not the government.
Every time enforcing the "law" becomes a higher priority than freedom and individual rights of citizens, we are one goosestep closer to a police state
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddude
Government and Laws attempt to control behavior with the threat of force. are they sometimes necessary? of course. Especially basic Laws like infringing on other peoples rights, Murder, theft, etc. but the layer upon layer of laws that only serve as revenue source for government, or punishing an unpopular demographic, Do impede freedom, growth and prosperity. Government and Laws attempt to control behavior with the threat of force. For most, it is at a tolerable level in the US, currently. For me? I prefer less control over me and fewer threats of incarceration and violence against me from the federal, state, and local govts that I support with my tax dollars
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirsty
I am not actually anti law, there has to be law and some regulation, what I am against is protectionist laws that favor one party over another. and redundent law that does nothing but suck the blood of liberty & freedom. some people do not understand freedom. freedom does not permit you to punch the other guy in the nose. he has a right to freedom also. There are over 800,000 laws on the books, last year alone over 40,000 new laws and regulations were put in place. can any clear minded reasionable person see the need for that.
I agree, this post has been hijacked. I am sorry for that redcrossnj. And dont worry Olddude, just shine that beacon of scrap in the night sky and I will know you need me. I will assure you, I will be there before the blood shed.
i dont mean to seem pro law and for taking peoples freedom away but what else are you gonna do the majority of us are getting screwed because of a few dumbasses and i think if we go hard right away for a short period of time and we all just suck it up for a little while the problem will be solved and about them going to something else .. thats whats gonna happen if you dont punish them for real instead of just throwing them in a cell for 30 days or making them repay a fine
I definitely agree that the once the criminals are caught, they should be punished etc. I just don't agree that new laws that put the overhead and liability of enforcement on the small business instead of law enforcement are good. Closing down every scrap yard that buys copper will virtually end copper theft, but most would not want that to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamedayron
Kris Kringle im not saying stealing is right or there actions are justified im just saying that the government doesnt realize this countrys in a hell hole and why people are really doing what there doing. most of the meth head stories are B@@@S@@@
this laws arent going to change anything , its going to make it worse. make it harder for people who scrap for a living . police will come and talk to you everytime something near you gets stolen. and the theives will be harder to catch they will find ways around the laws.