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Does anyone know where the copper goes when the scrap yard sells it off? I mean if the scrap yard is paying between $3.10 and $3.40 a lb for #1, what are they getting for it? Does anyone on here bypass the middle guy and deal with a specific buyer for more profit?
You would need a semi load to even get noticed by the big buyers. The yards are probably only making $ .10-.15 a lb. above what their paying you. Here's a place you can keep track for yourself. http://www.scrapmonster.com/
http://www.metalprices.com/
Point to ponder though: All this crap is ending up overseas. Been on my mind a lot here lately.
any pattern from the past years or certion times or things to look for in the news to hopefully bring up the price of the metals?
I thought of this. Like mech688 said, " Semi load" and you got to find the mills. My buddy still runs flatbeds. he would help me and he scraps too. Also my moms cousin's husband owns a trucking co. that hauls rock so i could maby get my hands on some dump trailers. hmmmmmm
High Voltage sells his chops to a mill of sorts, I imagine he knows where the best money is, if you have a semi load.
http://www.metalprices.com/pubcharts...ze=s&bg=EDF2F8
http://www.metalprices.com/pubcharts...ze=s&bg=EDF2F8
Great replies. I was just wondering. We have a lead smelting plant about 25 minutes from me and I spoke with the plant manager on unrelated matters. I happened to ask him about lead and how they purchased it. He then pointed to about 11 tractor trailers lined up alongside the plant and said "Like that." LOL. I know in NY, lead is dead. You cant fish with it, reapply on wheels etc. I was recently pondering the idea of dealing with stricty copper only. Purchasing wire, insulated or not, piping etc.
You can try selling to a wholesale scrap yard who purchases scrap from all the other smaller retail yards in your area.
Thanks for the links, very useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic688
Keep in mind that the copper market is volatile. You could save up for a year and when you go to cash in on your copper, it could be down around $2.50. This would blow your whole profit margin. Just food for thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylinejackjr
My copper NEVER goes out of the U.S. I only use companies that are in the U.S and that keep the copper here as well. I am always amused when I read comments from people who want to start chopping wire on a large scale. Its not easy and really not cheap. Yes I make money and good money at that but to do it right you need a lot of start up cash and even more luck.
My partner and I cashed out our retirement funds, we borrowed from friends and family, we sold our cars and bought cheap Kias, and our families ate hot dogs and beans while we got the business up. The risk is large but it can pay off if done right. Still, when I think back to the start up and what would have happened if we made one mistake I shudder. I could have ruined my family for life.
Good luck with that model. You will not have enough profit as the whole seller is selling to China and I can't even compete with their payouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retech
Example; the yard sells to China for 2.50- 3.00 a pound. If you have a smelter you will get about .14-.22 cents under market. That leaves you with a profit of about .45 cents per pound. We run very lean and that margin, while it can make money for us if I buy 40,000 pounds, it can kill me unless I have 78% recovery. Best of luck there as much of that is stripped by people here on this board.
Well said jim...some on here think they are makin profit if they get 500 lbs...dont get me wrong it is worth it but to do it and make money you need large quantitys!Quote:
Originally Posted by High Voltage Processing
Jim makes an excellent point I have seen and witnessed a wire chopper running firsthand and to keep it feed and going is a different animal altogether. Say your wire chopper does 1,000 lbs an hour. For a full week you have to find a trailer load of wire and hope for like he said 78 percent recovery or better. Thats running it 7:30 to 4:00 o clock. Most companys will run two shifts or buy a bigger wire chopper eventually. Most wire is 80 percent but all scrap yards mix 45 percent and 60 percent recovery in with there wire because they can get away with it. I have witnessed it a million times make small bale with BS wire bale good wire in with bad wire and boom you have what looks like a great bale of wire but will only recover 75 percent or less. The copper game is very tricky with very little margin for error or else you have to grab your ankles and take it like a champ and take the loss. Businesses aren't in business to lose money they are in business to make money. All I can say is give it a shot maybe you make it maybe you don't but if you lose your pants take it as a learning experience. Some people make it big in this business some people lose there ass.
That is more common then you would think. It amazes me how they will screw over someone and then can't figure out why they get no repeat business. Lucky for them a lot of people try to get in this business and there are a lot of new suckers for them.
Hey I resemble that remark!!Quote:
Originally Posted by High Voltage Processing
I have witnessed it all in my lifetime bales of 1 1/2 steel being turned into number one bundles with new production scrap being baled around it. I have seen old painted aluminum bales turned into new aluminum bales simply by taking a bath in silver paint. That was the best f-YOU I have seen to date and made me chuckle allot. I have to be honest though I am guilty of mixing low recovery with high recovery. The problem with the wire chopping business is you always always get the crap they couldn't strip themselves. You also get the wire thats so covered in tar and other crap that they couldn't strip to. Here take this junk and turn it into money and call me back if it works for you. There's so many suckers out there though they come and they go.
I chop about 100,000 pounds a month of Rome and thhn wire. It helps when you pay more so its not worth the time to strip.
There's risk in everything we do. Jim, I commend people like yourself and your partener. You saw an opportunity, took a risk and it sounds like it is paying off. I was speaking with one of the owners of a local scrap yard, a small one. This guy is the underdog around here, but he pays the best price for copper per pound in this area (3.15 lb). He was telling me about "gypsies" that come from the NYC area and drive around in there trucks paying top dollar for #1. He expained that these guys have no overhead, no employees to pay, no taxes, etc so how can he compete. These guys even come to you so theres no labor on your end and your not burning your gas. Check under "gypsie's" and "copper" on You Tube. I had to see for myself.
They are a lot like the Chinese. I can't believe the prices they pay.
Same here. I would never in million years even think of using a company in, say, china. Thing is what they do with it after I get paid for it, I have no control over.Quote:
Originally Posted by High Voltage Processing
Not trying to sound like I'm arguing with you. Far from it. Just trying to make a point. I really do hope the copper you sell is staying here in the U.S. And believe me, if I had a way to ensure that everything I sold was to stay in our great country I would definitely employ it. But I don't. And we all know that most of this scrap metal is ending up overseas. Copper included.
I do have control over it as I get their agreement before I sell. I tour the smelters plant to see what they do and the process they use. If I find out they start shipping out I remove them from my list. That has happened once. Now, who they sell their end product to I have no control over but at least I sleep better at night knowing a lot of Americans are working because of my policy.
My point exactly. Thank you for making it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by High Voltage Processing
I'm surprised, I figured if they are paying me say, $2.00 lb for copper that they probably turn around and get double or triple that amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic688
New, they deal in large quantities,, so the .10-.15 lb. adds up fast.