interesting theory on gold and silver futures

heard a theory yesterday on future prices of gold. we have debt we can never pay back with current curency values, so what the FED is doing is inflating the value of the dollar against other currencys, for eample if the FED can double the value of the world market on dollars we then owe half as much debt. we then bring in the oil pipe line from canada, and open Anware causing world oil price to plummit, fruther increasing the value of the dollar, cutting the debt to 1/4 of todays value. interesting theory but some how it makes sence to me, and all the signs are there. this will cause gold prices to settle in at arround $1000 to $1200 some time in the future.

the thing I heard about silver may be one of those internet rhoumors designed to sell silver. suposedly there is only 9 years of silver left in discovered mines and at the current scrap recovery rates. the current price of gold is causing many manufacturers to replace gold with silver in many electronic uses. fruther increasing the demand on silver, supposedly there are many more tons of gold reservs then there are silver reserves in the mining discoverys.

dont know if any of it is true but it makes sence, when you look at what is going on on the gold/silver. dollar markets. We dont know what the insiders know.

Never toss something out as total wrong as it could hold some bit of truth.

Here are my points to this tho.

The USA cant really "name" the price of gold an so the us cant play with the worth of the US dollar. Part why so many people invest into gold???

Even tho the money is no longer backed by gold but from country to country gold = money. So the paper money is in fact still gold you just cant turn it into gold as you use to anymore. The issue we have is that we have borrowed more money than we have gold...so we are in the whole as we do not have the gold to cover our debt.

Or...that is what I have understand from what I have been told/learn.

that is the prevaling thought, but I dont put any thing past these monsters. just a few short years ago they waved their majic wand and made my 30 + year old $50,000 mobile home worth $150,000. then tried to lone me money on it fortunately I didnt go for it.

I would not put anything past anyone who has a few things.

Money
power
there own mind

People want a few things....money power and a good life...they will do what is BEST for them..not always whats best for EVERY one...now thats not the same for everyone but come on..wake up..they are making sure there own butts are real warm.

On another side point...gold HAS to be used in computer because of the many properties of gold that silver dose not have.

I could go into some detail on that but that would be off topic and a very long post. But there is a VERY good reason why gold is used and in HOW its used.

oh im awake. and the upper echalon have their buts covered, it is the in betweens that concern me they are desperate, and the last 4 or five years have showed me they are capable of any thing. by the way sry about your loss, at leas it wasent top stash. merry christmah or happy Hu lol not even going to try spelling that one. :)

Gold and silver are complicated and heavily manipulated metals. They have unparalleled industrial applications that create steady demands as well as being a 'hedge' against unstable fiat currencies (print $ at will). The U.S. is a state of hopeless unresolvable debt (debtor nation) to other creditor nations (primarily China). Creditors always dictate terms. Major world economies have been in and out of bankruptcy since WWII, The Euro was essentially a massive currency devaluation, Brazil and Argentina defaulted, the U.S. waters down the value of the dollar as much as possible to make the oil purchases cheap. On top of that there is world market buying and selling huge quantities of currency. If you really think of it, the things that have real value are the commodities not the fiat money they print off. Chinese and Indian demand will keep the value of these metals strong in the future, prices will rise,level,rise,level. Copper is the real metal of the future. Great reading is Game Over written Leeb, great metal and oil analysis.

yup except for one thing ya cant eat gold and silver. well ya can but ya know what I mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olddude

that is the prevaling thought, but I dont put any thing past these monsters. just a few short years ago they waved their majic wand and made my 30 + year old $50,000 mobile home worth $150,000. then tried to lone me money on it fortunately I didnt go for it.

---

I'm confused but then at my age they tell me this is normal.

I could conceivably be so that your 30 year mobile home now had such a value had it been sitting on a fixed foundation on freehold property that you owned wholly or in partnership.

At what rate of interest did they offer you the loan, it's almost certain that you would not have had to commit to borrowing the full amount and that you could have settled for a portion should you have accepted the offer. Apparently your credit rating has diminished since that offer was made.

When the appraisal was done and the value determined to be $150,000.00 what was your property tax assessment for that year.

hmm me thinks I detect a doubting thomas here, ir in this case a secound guessing Gus :)
the moble home is an early 80s single wide, with a porch on front going down half the length, a few years ago we inclosed and insulated the porch, so the broker said ok we can make that aa double wide. he asked does it have a foundation I said no it sets on blocks, he said we can cover that by just blocking in the shirting area. at that time we still owed about $10,000 and I was still relitivly healthy and making money, had a decient credit rating. the place was worth maybe $75,000 80 tops. the other info is no ones business.

they wouldnt loiaqn less then 50 or 75,000. do you know how dirivitevs work, and how home loans were insured by AGE . these banksters bundeled the lones like a car finince manager and insured them all against default, the banks never lost a dime. that is the scam.

P.S at the time I was interested in about $25 000 for some equipment but they wouldnt loan less then 50 or 75 000 the were after the big bucks, do you know how dirivitives work, and do you know how AFG works ?

I have not made it a secret my financial situation has taken a dump in the last 5 yrs or so, dosent take a genious to figgure out if I had any credit left I wouldnt be in the position I am.

now if you have listend to how we got into this realestate bubble and how and why it burst then you would knowhow crooked, loan brokers, banksters, and dishonest home owners, and wana be owners got us here, I am proud to say I was not one of them, it was dishonest, I am not. are there times when I, for a minite wish I would have taken the money, you bet, but I didn't which allows me to throw rocks at those who were dishonest and did. have you not heard of no doc loans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olddude

hmm me thinks I detect a doubting thomas here, ir in this case a secound guessing Gus :)

---

Seconded guessing nothing, since you never give all the facts, we're left to assume some of the details.

From reading your previous posts, I have come to the conclusion those without money have a fixation with it.

I presently have less than $100.00 in my bank account with about $45.00 cash in my pocket as you can see I am not financially independent, nor am I a burden to society I do not have a pension nor do I collect benefits.

My father on passing had an estate worth $1.2 m, none of which I received nor wanted, I've always been a firm believer that a hungry mans is more creative in his thinking.

At 62 years of age they have given me my first credit card of which I have only used once towards the purchase of that crane truck, I tapped the card for $1900.00 and paid it off immediately by hauling in 10 cars in one weekend. I knew that I had the cars before tapping my card, I do not gamble with such things as putting myself unnecessarily into debt.

I also asked the company CEO to put the $1900.00 through as a purchase to further buy me some time, I did not use the cash back feature which would have started interest against the loan the moment I had withdrawn the cash.

How about we spend more time teaching these younger folks how to make money to survive the future, we the older generation have plenty to teach, so let us get on with our job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Area67

Gold and silver are complicated and heavily manipulated metals. They have unparalleled industrial applications that create steady demands as well as being a 'hedge' against unstable fiat currencies (print $ at will). The U.S. is a state of hopeless unresolvable debt (debtor nation) to other creditor nations (primarily China). Creditors always dictate terms. Major world economies have been in and out of bankruptcy since WWII, The Euro was essentially a massive currency devaluation, Brazil and Argentina defaulted, the U.S. waters down the value of the dollar as much as possible to make the oil purchases cheap. On top of that there is world market buying and selling huge quantities of currency. If you really think of it, the things that have real value are the commodities not the fiat money they print off. Chinese and Indian demand will keep the value of these metals strong in the future, prices will rise,level,rise,level. Copper is the real metal of the future. Great reading is Game Over written Leeb, great metal and oil analysis.

---

Believe it or not we only owe china six percent of our debt give or take a few percentage points. Here is a slideshow I dug up from CNBC I knows its outdated heck as we speak out debt is growing. Six percent is still a huge number when you look at 15 trillion dollars of debt. Did you ever believe in your life that you would hear people throw around numbers like billions and trillions and think nothing of it.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401

Yeah i like this sort of thread!
Some very very good points made with some very good information.
Fiat or Metal? i would go for metal everyday of the week!

As long as we foolishly continue to believe that an I.O.U. issued from the Bank of England or Federal Reserve or any other Privately owned Printers is worth anything then TPTB have control over us.
Metal wins hands down!!!

I cant try to explain my entire theory here on the methodical devaluation of America. v but to clear some things up. 1. I did not take the loan it was immoral. 2. at the time the property in question was worth 75 to 80,000 according to sales in the neighborhood. in the housing loan frenzy, real apprasials had nothing to do with what was going on. "loan brokers were paid a % of the loan they took to mortgage companies, the M cos bundled the loans and sent them to the mortgage banks. the mortgage banks bundled them and put them on the stock market as dirivitives (investment on intrest derived fom mass mixed loans) then the banks insured the loans with AIG agains default. ( if you defaulted on your loan AIG paid the bank the full ammount of the loan to the bank,) the banks lost nothing untill AIG ran out of money. then it was decided that AIG was "too big to fail" and you, the people bailed it out or rather your children and grand children did.

sry if I was unduley offended, but it sounded to me like gus was doubting I was offered the loan and that any of this happened. It happend in the millions. the socialists decided every one in the U.S. deserved a home loan. no job no money on welfare no problem, we have a no dock loan, you dont have to prove any thing, heres your $500,000 dollar house.

I think the intrest rate I was offered was 6 or 61/2 %.

now I must say I appreciate Gus and the unique info he offers, and would like to learn a whole lot more. dont want to get into a personality clash here, I am not a teacher and dont claim to be, I just pass along info I have learned from others or from my own experience. it is every ones own responsability to research any info shared here or any where on the net, not doing so is foolish as well as dangerous.

and by the way I dont consider my self a burden on society either. I paid my dues for decades almost 5 of them. I was promised a retirement for the money I "invested" with the government in the way of SS taxes, + we were promised intrest, there was supposed to be a difference between Social security retirement, and suplimental social security, that is not the case any longer.

Many of us here are survivalists, some by choice others by necessity, all by nature. The info I bass along to others here is geared to that. sry if it rangles some. I tell it as I see it, im a realist, maybe Im wrong , I certainaly hope so, for all our sakes. but if Im not and I was able to help one other family be ready, I will die a happy man.

(moved to Off-Topic)

great questions.

1. what am I doing. I try to educate people as to whatr
I believe is the cause the effect and what I believe they must do to prepair for what ,unfortunately, may well be the future.

2. aig didnt loan any one any money they insured phoney loans the mortgage banks took.presented as good loans. the trillions in debt aquired by the government has to be paid back through tax znd revenue, you your children and grand children will pay back this money not the government, the government produces nothing, they are just a transfer station transfering money from you to some one else

3. I did not contribute to the debt because I did not take a loan. but I didnt avoid any of it, no one did, we must pay the piper for those who did take default loans.

4. you didnt take the loan just like I didnt and for the same reasions, common sence and morality. you had the morality to not take the loan and the common sence to know you couldnt pay it back. un fortunately we make up a minority of todays America. most have no common sence or morality. probably at least 50 % of todays americans can name the Idle finalists, the size of snookies bust or K kardaschiens butt, and cannot name the vice president of the U.S.


5 nope no one held a gun to their heads. but rats will stand in line to lick the bait off a rat trap, and a heroin addict will use a dirty spoon out of a toilet to melt their drug.

I worked as a contract advisor during the cash for clunkers program, let me tell you it was much easier to get a mortgage loan then a car loan, in the dealership it took a credit score of nearly 700 go get a clunker loan in most places, doring the mortgage fiasco you could buy a house with a 0 score. the repos were cause by the down turn of the economy caused by the mortgage melt down.

7. yes America is still the best country in the world, but for how long, on its continued path.
I dont want to settle for America beeing a little bit better, I want it far above any other, as it once was.

do you know the boiling frog theory? if you take a frog and throw him in a pot of hot watter he will do any thing to get out, but , if you put him in a pot of cool water and turn the burner on and slowly heat the water, he will be a happy frog till he boiles to death. this is what they are doing to America and your freedom.

If you read some Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin. Adams , Monroe and other founding fathers they warned 250 years ago against exactly what is happening today some later day predictors were D eisenhour, and John Kennedy.

p.s. the AIG quote was put in quotes because I didnt say it the socialist and Banksters did.

A much simpler view is what the bible has to say and that is that one day, men will be throwing their money into the streets because it will no longer be worth anything. I think that having raw materials that one can trade is the way to go but in those times investing in anything tangible it nuts. Faith in the good Lord above is the only investment that I will be making. God has yet to fail me when everything else in this world has. Food for thought eh?

agreed on all. unfortunately. except for one thing the mobsters i Washington, and their media backers including the so called conservitives have the American people convinced this is a tax cut. It is not, It is a social security cut. this proves to me they know SS will fail and go bankrupt, and they have given up on trying to save it.

Mikey is right the only thing to horde is not money not gold or silver. it is food, and materials and know how.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Well Old Dude I hate to say this You and I will be Long gone we will never see America as it Once use to be Sad but True, I mean Hell we can't even pass a Silly little Tax Cut Bill. But we can have the POTUS on a $4.4 Million Vacation While Millions Here is Out Of work not knowing If they going to have a Place to Live Tommorrow. I think what will eventually Happen The USA Is going to RESET. Reason I say this is Up in Colorado they Have these Shelters they are Building under Ground Now I wonder why they are Being Built? And it seems kind of funny they started Bringing back the National Emergency Warning Broadcast.

Here is some food for Thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qx20...yer_embedded#!

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I usually stay away from these political threads, but I must say this was the most interesting and thought provoking show I've watched all year.

we do not have the amount of oil needed to move the market. we have even less refining capability. all opec has to do is slow production. we need to reduce our consumption of oil. that will make oil prices meaningless.

oil is tied to the dollar at the moment. there is an effort to replace it with the euro. that would be disastrous for us.

silver is not going to replace gold in electronics. gold is used because it does not corrode and it has excellent conductivity. silver with a rhodium plate can be used, but it is more expensive to manufacture and does not have the same durability or conductivity as gold.

the notion that the value of the dollar changes the debt amount is false. the cola and roi are the problems and the answer.

ie. your electric bill is $200. you will have to pay $200. there is no discount based on the valuation of the dollars you use to pay that bill.

if the cost of living was to drop and the return on your investment was to go up, you would have more dollars to pay that bill with. leaving you more dollars in your pocket. but, you still have to pay the $200.

the problem today is that the cola has gone up and roi has dropped for too many people. leaving them with fewer dollars to pay for increasing prices.

it is interesting to watch folks blame one party over the other.

have you ever noticed that all of the corrupt crooks in office, regardless of their party affiliation or last name, always spend our money????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rbrooks715

the notion that the value of the dollar changes the debt amount is false. the cola and roi are the problems and the answer.

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True, the value of the dollar doesn't change the debt but 2 large factors that devalue the dollar are 1.) Printing more dollars, whilst this doesnt directly affect the debt, you just made some more money to pay the debt off, now with devalued dollars. 2.) Lowering interest rates so that the interest on the debt is lower. This directly affects the dollar as less people buy is because they get so little interest on it.
Only problem is, everyone else is doing the same so noone knows where to put their money at the moment. Everyone is in a rush to devalue their currency to stay competetive and so they pay less interest on their quite substantial debts.
Gold inversely follows the value of the dollar but it even more closely tracks interest rates, and with the UK, US and Euro not planning to increase rates 'till at least 2013 I am of the belief it is unlikely to drop it's trend any time soon. At least until interest rates are above inflation. Doesnt mean it won't go down, but gold could drop to 1300 and still be in a bull market.

the only that relly changes is the fiat money (paper money and fake coinage) gold value hasent changed in at least 2000 years. There are enough proven oil reserves with in U.S. teritory and coast lines to sustain us independently for 200 years according to as many resoc
rces as say there isnt. not enough refinerys is the choice of federqal regulations and oil companys who want to control prices. Just my .o2

It's a slow day in the small town of Pumphandle and the streets are
>deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is
>living on credit.
>
>A tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel,
>and lays a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the rooms
>upstairs to pick one for the night.
>
>As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs
>next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
>
>(Stay with this.....and pay attention)
>
>
>The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt
>to the pig farmer.
>
>The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his
>supplier, the Co-op.
>
>The guy at the Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the
>local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to
>offer her "services" on credit.
>
>The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel Owner.
>
>(Almost done...keep reading)
>
>The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the
>traveler will not suspect anything.
>
>At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the
>rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill andleaves.
>
>No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole
>town now thinks that they are out of debt and there is a false
>atmosphere of optimism and glee.
>And that, my friends, is how a "stimulus package" works!



________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com

Big Tex, you hit the nail on the head!!
The Imaginary money merry go-round

Two kids decide to make a Lemonade stand.

They get the lemons & sugar & water & jug & cups & make a wooden stand & sign.
They decide on a price of 10 cents a glass.

So they are carting all this down to the corner & one gets thirsty, so he say's
"I will buy a glass of lemonade" & gives his 10 cents to the other kid.

A little later the other kid gets thirsty & gives his 10 cents to the first kid & gets a glass of lemonade.
This keeps happening until theres no lemonade left.

They then return home & count up their profit, they both get 5 cents each...
-----------------

Dunno where I was going with this story but I heard it a long time ago & this thread reminded me of it.

First let me introduce myself, I am new to the forum but not new to the precious metals market. I work at a coin shop that deals heavily in precious metals all day long. Everything from junk US 90% Silver to American Gold Eagles.

With the precious metals market there are so many factors that affect its outcome. From someone farting in Dubai and making gold go up by $20 to Saving some endangered leaf on an Alaskan Oil Pipeline. Anyways seriously:

Right now the European Market is a big factor in the precious metals market. In the US the fact that we have just had an economic stimulus in this country called the Holiday shopping season also teamed up with infamous tax return time is causing a serious decline in precious metals. If the dollar and DOW are weak precious metals are always strong. Well a stimulated economy has weakened the metals. Lets fast forward to late February to early March. Our unemployment rate in this country is a reported 8.7% last time I cared to look. That number is the biggest crock I have ever seen, it doesn't even begin to account for the people that are exhausted with trying to find work or are no longer eligible for benefits. Well the war is over the troops are all coming home and guess what some are reservists returning back to the workforce, so the replacement help will be let go. More jobs lost. The military doesn't need all the personnel now "No Longer Wartime" Most of the soldiers have done their tours more than a few times and no longer want to be in. So unemployment will go through the roof, the economy will suck worse and precious metals will be going strong again.
Sorry not trying to rant and rave.....
In my humble opinion you will never see a day when gold goes below 1400.00 again let alone 1000-1200 range. If you look at silver it definitely has the most growth potential of all the precious metals. Historical high for silver 55.00 in the 80's 48.00 about three months ago. Someday a good majority of Americans will come to the realization that what we have stuffed in safes and wallets is just paper. With billions and billions of un-backed funds our economy is heading for a steady decline if not a downward spiral. My favorite phrase that I hear people say is I hope silver goes up to 100.00 an ounce. No you really don't cause that means that the cost of living just went up ten fold and our nations economy has just crashed.
OK I'll get off my soapbox now but the view was spectacular up here.....
Thanks for reading!!!!

great post.

the sad part, is the folks who have been elected to lead us out of this mess act like 5 year olds. petty bickering over lowering taxes to the wealthiest, abortions and gay marriages. regardless of one's personal opinion on those issues, they will not produce one job nor lower the debt by a single dollar.

i do agree with your assessment of the gold market.

I find it interesting to read this post now, four and a half years later. What has changed?

The price of gold then about $1700 an ounce >> today less than $1200
Labor participation rate is the lowest since 1977
National debt has increased by a few trillion more dollars
Price of oil is lower. Then it was $94, today about $57 a barrel
Interest rates still near zero. The only ones making any real money are the bankers.

Once again, we are the verge of National financial disaster.
Hmmm, who will lose the most this time around?

it's a form of recycling.

you know, DISCO is making a come back,lol...