Sealed motors

I have sealed motors , One is at least 50 lb and many more at other sizes any way in the past i have cut some open (small ones) and it does takes some time. I don't have a torch & i figure the cost of gas would come into play also. Now once you have it apart getting the copper out takes a bit more time also. I would say 45 min is a safe time frame for the whole deal. for sure it is not getting done in 15 min.
Also once I hit upon a AL motor instead of copper.
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So a 50 pounder will pay out .12 = $6

Or try for the copper
48 LB @.10 selling as short $4.80
if you are lucky 2 lb copper @ $2.40 = $4.80
for a total $9.60

PROFIT is $3.60 at best but most likely a bit less.
I don't think it might be worth my time ,considering some might not even be copper windings any way. smaller units have at best 1 lb copper

Unless some one can inspire me I ready to sell as is

P S
I also am not crazy about to freon oil smell as they are cut.

I use a plasma cutter. On the small ones I can cut up about 30 an hour, takes about 1 hour after that to clean up the winding. They average around a pound and a half of copper per unit. If they were properly evacuated you won't get the burnt freon smell. The bigger a/c compressors yield 4 to 7 pounds of copper and don't take that much longer. Unfortunantly a lot of bigger a/c compressors have copper clad aluminum winding in them.

I can get .15 per lb for the motor today.
yes i must have 2 or so of the big ones

the copper clad makes it a crap shoot
I have no plasma cutter
some I did had 1lb copper

The 1/8th and 1/6th horse compressors do run about a pound apiece, the 1/3rd and 1/2 horse ones run closer to 2 pounds apiece.

I find it rather amusing that a self taught individual takes more care working with dangerous and potentially toxic substances such as freon in this case.

Compressors removed can and will retain a certain amount of freon in the oil,when cutting these sealed units work with plenty of ventilation or you could die from exposure to Phosgene gas.

ACUTE PHOSGENE GAS EXPOSURE IN A 49-YEAR-OLD REFRIGERATOR TECHNICIAN
Daniel Kim, DO*, Brendan Carmody, MD, John M. Chandler, MD, James Morton, MD and Leo C. Rotello, MD

National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, MD

INTRODUCTION: Phosgene (carbonyl chloride) gas is of historical interest and has important industrial applications today. Historically, it was the most lethal of World War I war gases. It is estimated that nearly 80% of the poison gas deaths during that war were caused by phosgene exposure. In the post 9/11 era, phosgene remains a potential, highly toxic chemical weapon. Additionally, phosgene poses significant risk to some workers who may be occupationally exposed. This case report demonstrates a known hazard of refrigeration workers suffering phosgene poisoning after heating chlorinated fluorocarbons (Freons).

CASE PRESENTATION: 49 year-old refrigerator technician was admitted to our intensive care unit following phosgene gas exposure. The patient reports using a welding torch while soldering a refrigerator coil which contained Freon. Following vaporization of Freon to phosgene the patient immediately noted a peculiar, pungent smelling gas. He then experienced lacrimation and a burning sensation in his mouth and throat, followed by severe dyspnea, wheeze and cough. On arrival to the emergency department the patient was dyspneic and complained of chest tightness and palpitations. The patient’s heart rate was 140 bpm, blood pressure was 110/60, oxygen saturation was 98% on a non-rebreather facemask. Physical examination revealed an obese male in moderate distress. His conjunctiva was injected. His respirations were mildly labored but clear to auscultation. The cardiovascular exam was irregularly irregular. The remainder of his exam was normal. Chemistries and complete blood count were within normal limits. An arterial blood gas revealed a pH of 7.39, pCO2 of 36 mmHg, and pO2 of 92 mmHg on a FiO2 of 1.0. The patient’s chest X-ray was normal and telemetry monitoring showed a ventricular rate of 140 bpm and atrial fibrillation. Following CDC and OSHA recommendations, appropriate measures were taken to minimize risk of poisoning hospital personnel including monitoring of the patients exhaled gas phosgene levels. This remained detectable (>1 ppm) for approximately 5 hours, after which isolation procedures were discontinued. The patient was admitted to the ICU for observation with rapid resolution of hypoxic respiratory failure and was discharged within 48 hours.

DISCUSSIONS: This patient’s symptoms were typical of those seen after exposure to phosgene at a concentration exceeding 3 ppm. 1 The possibility of occupational exposure of refrigeration workers to phosgene has been rarely reported. Adequate purging of refrigeration pipes before welding should help to reduce this risk significantly. Phosgene is a highly toxic gas, and exposure may have a fatal outcome. Respiratory symptoms may be delayed by a latent period of several hours before acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) becomes apparent. The mechanisms of lung injury have been elucidated in animal models to include acylation and lipid peroxidation. These processes result in denaturation of proteins and lipids, irreversible alterations of membrane structures, and disruption of enzyme and other cell function. 2 Treatment is primarily supportive as there is no known antidote for phosgene. The most severe cases benefit from close monitoring and positive pressure ventilation, but the role of corticosteroids and other adjuncts of care remain controversial. Specific treatment regimens for phosgene exposure and ARDS have not been investigated in human, prospective randomized controlled trials.

CONCLUSION: Phosgene exposure is associated with significant morbidity and mortality. Physicians should be aware of the risk of phosgene exposure when heat is applied to Freon, commonly used in a variety of industries. Patients with a history of exposure should be admitted to the hospital for observation given the potential for delayed onset of respiratory failure and ARDS.

DISCLOSURE: Daniel Kim, No Financial Disclosure Information; No Product/Research Disclosure Information

REFERENCES

1. Diller WF. Pathogenesis of phosgene poisoning. Toxicology and Industrial Health1985; 1 (2):7 –7
2. Borak J and Diller WF. Phosgene exposure: mechanisms of injury and treatment strategies. Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine2001; 43 (2):110 –110[

I just hate giving the copper away, If really needed work (like picking slows down a bit ) it's there (taking them apart) , just need to decide. A bird in the hand is worth more then 2 in the bush. like they say

After reading above info ,I except that I might not want that exposure as yes i realize freon is in the oil . That has to be a carcinogen as it stands.
I have taken apart only 3 and felt they were one of my hardest messy projects and one was copper clad so that must be part of the ratio
I know ways to clean them before i open them (I feel no need to spell it out), People in the know I am sure Know how also. . I'll keep them a little longer and if i see steel/copper start to rise more.,Just unload em.

Gus, I do all my cutting outside my shop. My cutting table is set up next to a dumpster bin that I toss the carcasses in after I drain the oil. CH, today is compressor cutting day, if you want, I'll post the yeilds and time involved.

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Originally Posted by freonjoe

Gus, I do all my cutting outside my shop. My cutting table is set up next to a dumpster bin that I toss the carcasses in after I drain the oil. CH, today is compressor cutting day, if you want, I'll post the yeilds and time involved.

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I'm not worried about you personally its the other forum members who have no knowledge of freons other uses besides being a **** good refrigerant.

I would hate to have to read on the INJURED SCRAPPER thread of an injury that could have been avoided. If we get someone seriously injured we may have to install a paypal donate button to help support his/her family while they're in recovery.

Since most members are processing, they should be aware of the high concentrations of ammonia in RV fridges,the ammonia is in much higher concentrations that what you get in cleaning products a rupture in the system could bring you down to your knees with burnt lung tissue.

The some of the older refrigerators units used sulfur dioxide, another killer substance if mishandled.

Since you have formal training in refrigeration you would be aware that if in your duties as a licensed technician had you come across a sulfur dioxide fridge still in operation it is your duty to condemn the unit and order it removed from the residence.

I'm not licensed in this trade and do not have that authority, but I sure can send out caution flags.

This fridge below could be charged with either freon or sulfur dioxide, check the label to be sure before attempting to cut the compressor open for a few ponds of copper.

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...rum/fridge.jpg

I could just cut one per day , So far guys I have been safe I have a buddy plumber who drains freon for me , But still you know residual smell and oil Still ain't good for the body.

Thank you Gus. From now on I'm taking mine in whole. I just did one out of a window AC and I was thrilled at the amount of copper. Not worth making myself sick over.

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Originally Posted by Dumpster-Dee

Thank you Gus. From now on I'm taking mine in whole. I just did one out of a window AC and I was thrilled at the amount of copper. Not worth making myself sick over.

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Any compressors that you have acquired from decommissioned units, drill a hole into the bottom of the canister, drain the oil before cutting. Freon by itself is rather benign.

I'm sure that may of you have experienced a beer that has over flowed with effervescence, this is the carbon dioxide escaping. What I'm trying to impress upon our members here is that the oil inside the compressor retains plenty of freon for weeks even after the lines have been cut.

No need to give up the valuable copper, just be safe is all I ask of you.

I'll add an idea. As I read the " drilling the hole to remove oil"
I believe what might be an idea is to drill a large enough hole to determine if the motor is pure copper or copper clad. For me That might be a plan If i know copper is there I'll put some time in

The difference in weight is so noticeable you can tell right away if it's copper or aluminum windings.

For those unable to detect the weight difference , every compressor has a date code stamped into the case learn how to decipher it, the early units all had copper. When did the manufactures start using aluminum.

Next you could start weighing some compressors, make chart up for reference.

Off Topic,,, Awhile back another member had a lead on a hot deal, copper wire still on the rolls with out a clue to figure the value. With a cheap OHM pocket type meter you can easily figure out how many feet of wire are left on the roll. There are other charts available that give the pounds per feet.

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...-1000-feet.jpg

Back on the original issue of time vs profit, it all depends on what a persons time is worth. Instead of a cutter I use an angle grinder with a thin metal cut-off blade. I can usually cut open (always outside and usually a breeze blowing) two sealed motors with one blade. I ALWAYS cut mine open when I have nothing else to do. If I have another activity that is more profitable at the time, I will do it. I always save the cutting and stripping for when I have some down time, or in the evenings. It helps me to keep from polishing the couch with my butt so much (do NOT like to be bored). For me, basically it is a time filler when I have nothing else to do. And if I was not filling that time with retrieving copper my profit would be 0.

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Originally Posted by wayne1956

back on the original issue of time vs profit, it all depends on what a persons time is worth. Instead of a cutter i use an angle grinder with a thin metal cut-off blade. I can usually cut open (always outside and usually a breeze blowing) two sealed motors with one blade. I always cut mine open when i have nothing else to do. If i have another activity that is more profitable at the time, i will do it. I always save the cutting and stripping for when i have some down time, or in the evenings. It helps me to keep from polishing the couch with my butt so much (do not like to be bored). For me, basically it is a time filler when i have nothing else to do. And if i was not filling that time with retrieving copper my profit would be 0.

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inspiration

For me compressors are a viable part of my business. Yesterday I cut up 726 pounds of compressors (34 compressors) that took 2.5 hours. It yeilded 59 pounds of field copper, 6 pounds of oil and 660 pounds of #2 prepared.

Yesterday I cut up 7 fridge compressors using one 4 1/2 dia x 1/8th cutting off disc in a grinder. (used the whole disc up)

Then I used a 4 1/2 dia ultra thin cutoff disc to cut the ends off the loops of the windings.

After pulling the windings out & cutting off the string, the whole job took 2 hours.

I have found when cutting off the windings end loops, but I don't recommend it..
That I can use a worn disc to its full potential by cutting around the outside of the loops, then removing the disc & taking off the guard (dangerous) & then cutting the rest of the end loops off by putting the disc in the inside of the motor & finishing off the cutting of the loops from inside.

Cutting those loops off is dangerous because the grinding disc will grab the individual wires & fire them out directly at you.
I'd take a eye out in a split second, I use ear muffs & fully enclosed safety glasses.
They end up stuck, arrow like, into my clothing.

I'd use a full face shield as well if I had one..
Actually thats my next dumpster jumping job, found a dumpster with over 20 brand new ones with ear muffs attached, great find.
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AC compressor, not easy, this jobs a vertical one, probably from a freezer unit, 3 phase.

I looked at its side & noticed 3 x 7/8 dia spot welds, holding something in I guess.
So I would some paper tape around with one edge on the centreline of the welds, then I use a marker to make a line around the casing, inline with the welds.
Then I cut around the marked out line & broke the compressor in 1/2.
The armature fell out, its not fixed in place.

Next, to get the motor windings out, it turns out they are not welded in place, they just sit there.
So I picked up the top part of the compressor casing & dropped it onto the concrete surface with a bash.
Did that a few times & the windings were touching the concrete, the whole windings unit had slipped down the casing.

Then I put a large dia shaft up the center of the compressor & kept dropping it onto the concrete till the windings unit dropped out.

Easy, loud & thumping, but easy as.

I'm going to use the casing as a ornamental cannon.

If you cut up a lot of windings, you'll find that a table saw with a cut-off wheel in it really speeds things up as far as cutting the winding ends off.

Or buy a nice bandsaw like this one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-7-...saw-97009.html

My father in law has one out in the barn he said I can have. I need to go get it.

I tried a bandsaw but on the smaller windings it would catch and tear the windings up.

I saw a video on youtube where the dude used a band saw and cut right in the middle of the motor. Then punch out both sides.

Through the stator and all?

no just the windings and core.

I used a hacksaw & thought it worked well.
Untill I noticed that there was a bunch of teeth missing..
Since the individual wires are small dia, they fit in between the teeth, then they break them off.

I found this out once when I cut a worn hand wire brush in 1/2, ruined the hacksaw blade.

Chisel & hammer's probably the best way, clean, no overheads, no loss of copper wire.

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Originally Posted by freonjoe

Through the stator and all?

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I have used a big fat meat cleaver & hammer to do the same thing, works well if you get the right laminatins.
Some are welded together as well as bolted.

We are currently paying .23 for Sealed Units.

With or without oil?

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Originally Posted by Gatorcore

We are currently paying .23 for Sealed Units.

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Thats a good price. By me sealed units are .12 with the low for the year .10 in Jan, and the high of .15, These have the oil in them.

if you check the serial # on the compresor I have found most aluminiu wound have an A at the end of the #.
Time is money. however if you are not continually moving forward you are going back wards. That said if your not working you time is worth 0 no matter what you think your worth.