Help! Need some advice....

I recieved a call this morning from a woman asking if I picked up scrap metal for FREE? Of course I told her yes, and asked what she had? She told me she worked for a plumbing co. & they had 3 trash cans full of copper & brass. Without any hesitation I told her I was on the way! Right before I arrived to her business, my cell phone rang..... It was the woman on the other end????????? She wanted to know now if I paid for scrap---- I told her I was pulling up front of her business & that I would need to take a look at it first.
The owner happen to be standing next to the 3 trash cans full of treasure! I introduced myself and asked him what kind of money he was expecting. He told me I was the pro and that he wasn't going to bid against himself. ( Just for the record, I have never had to purchase a load of scrap yet)....... I have only been doing this for a year, but I do have a nice steady supply of scrap coming in. I tried to explain to him that I had know idea on a price offer without weighing it or sorting it out first. I then called my yard in front of him, " SPEAKER PHONE ON " to get current prices. The yard said todays copper price $3.00 - $3.10 Brass- .33 dirty - $1.50 clean.
From what I could see, everything looked like it needed to be seperated and cleaned. The owner looked at me and said he would need $1500.00 cash and that at that price I would still be getting in his back pocket. I asked him as nice as I could if he would sell me a sample pile of it for $100.00 because I wanted to take it back to my shop for my partner to see it before I agreed to his terms. He didn't like that! He told me it was $1500.00 final and if I didn't want it he would just take it in himself.
I have been curious all day why he even bothered to call me to buy his metals in the first place? Why wouldn't he just take it in himself? I don't think the stuff was stolen. He had a nice professional building ,vans, equipement with business name and number. So I don't understand ?
How would any of you handeled this situation? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks........

Sorry, Im trying to learn how to post pictures.

People are idiots. Always remember this.

I do wonder why she called asking if you would pick it up, for free, then changed the tune. Maybe she was going to get rid of it, and he caught on. Maybe they're just yanking your chain.

I have to laugh at 1,500 and "still getting in his back pocket. I have my suspicions there was even 1,000 bucks there. Especially if it needed to be cleaned/separated.

He is in for a shock when he hauls it in.

Remember, people are idiots. I encounter them all the time.

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Originally Posted by Big Tex

http://copper1

Sorry, Im trying to learn how to post pictures.

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Go to photobucket, upload pics, then post the code back here.

Thanks Idaho! Gonna try it now. Maybe check back later tonight for pictures.

I feel bad for you Tex. You were definitely misled, but it sounds to me like she didn't do that intentionally...she just didn't know what she was doing. I like Idaho's theory....the owner prob told her to call and find someone to take it but he meant buy it. Doesn't explain his weird behavior...anyway, I'm sorry it went down that way for you and I hope somehow it can turn in your favor. When you get your pix up, the experienced guys will help you and I'll be pulling for you.

In those situations, I would just walk away. Not counting your time of sorting it all and cleaning it, to get maximized profits, how are you to know there is enough there to justify handing this guy $1500 cash or check and then say making $2,000 for a $500 profit. There is no way till you sort it all out, and weigh it. If he can't understand how your business operates, then as you mentioned, he will be in for a rude awakening when he goes in, and his prices are no where near what he was hoping for.

You didn't happen to try to pick up one of the cans, did you? 175 lbs sure would be a heavy can. If each one had that much of clean copper, no brass at all, you'd just about break even. Copper and brass mixed...they better weigh a whole heck of a lot more than that. Be glad you walked away. Boy, is he going to be in for a surprise when he takes it in.

Thank You Dee. I have been trying all night to post my pics! I dont understand why the link does'nt post it???????????

If you have the pic's on Photobucket, the pic you want to insert you take your curser and just rest on the picture for a second and 4 selections will drop down below it. Click on the "direct link" and it will automatically copy the picture location. Then when your posting you click on the little square window looking thing right above where your posting. After the box opens up, just right click and paste the address in there and you will have your pic. in your post. Hope like H*** I didn't confuse you,,,,lol

I think I got the pictures to post! Thanks Mechanic & to all the rest.....

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

If you have the pic's on Photobucket, the pic you want to insert you take your curser and just rest on the picture for a second and 4 selections will drop down below it. Click on the "direct link" and it will automatically copy the picture location. Then when your posting you click on the little square window looking thing right above where your posting. After the box opens up, just right click and paste the address in there and you will have your pic. in your post. Hope like H*** I didn't confuse you,,,,lol

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If your using Ubuntu, copy the direct link from the desired picture in photbucket then paste the link into note pad or a blank email message, once your back into the scrap forum the link will be there to copy and paste for insertion.

It's a glitch with Ubuntu. but it for some reason will not allow you to paste from the virtual clipboard directly into the scrap forum's url radio buton or many others for that matter. This is my work around.

Regards
Gustavus

I use the IMG link, inside the same window I am typing in. Seems the simplest way to do it.

Regarding the cans of copper and potential weight, I took a trash can overflowing with copper tubing and it only weighed 65 lbs.

First of all, keep in mind.... you were just fine with these people being naive if it meant they were just going to hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of metal for free... But when their naivete flipped a 180 and caused them to ask you to pay an exorbitant amount for their scrap, then all of the sudden it bothered you. But who do you have to blame when you all but told him what you were going to make off the stuff.

I understand that you've never paid for scrap, but that's not the norm, especially when dealing with commercial entities like plumbing companies. You were only concerned with the scrap in front of you, but think about it... you were talking to the owner of a PLUMBING COMPANY!

Here's how I would have handled it...

"Mr. Business Owner, you may very well be right, that could be a load worth over $1500... A couple of minutes ago you said I was the pro when I asked you to shoot me a price, but of course you know that even pro's don't have x-ray vision. You seem pretty confident that at $1500 I'd be getting in your pocket... Since you now know what the scrap yard pays me, what do you think this load will bring once I've cleaned it up and take it to the yard?"

If he throws out any number, let's say $2k, I would say this... "Wow! I'd go for that. $500 bucks would be a great day for me. But just so you don't feel like I'm getting in your pocket, and so I don't have to get in trouble with the wife when she sees a $1500 ATM withdrawal, how about I do this on a consignment basis? I'll clean, separate, load, transport, and unload your material for let's say 20% of the final take. And hey , just for fun, if the load brings $2k or more, I'll buy you lunch in two weeks when I come back to take care of the next load... and if it brings in less than $1500, I'll let you buy me lunch. Sound like a deal?"

I used to play pool for a living... and I'll tell you this, gambling at pool for a living has little to do with being a champion pool player. Truth be known, I'm an extremely good player, but not a great one. But I know people, and I know how to "play position". An exchange like I outlined above serves a lot of purposes... First of all, it lets him know he's not dealing with an idiot. Second, it lets him know that you don't think HE'S an idiot. Third, you've taken him completely out of his game plan, and put him in yours... business owners are Alpha Males... you can't WRESTLE control of a situation from an Alpha, you have to let them GIVE it to you while making them feel it was their idea all along. Fourth, you've squashed the adversarial nature of the direction that negotiation was headed, and instead, put both of you on the same team. Fifth, you've planted the seed for an ongoing business relationship.

Thanks Billiard, that is great advice! However, the consingment idea was not going to work for this guy, I mentioned it. He said the last guy burned him that way & he would only deal with cash money up front! By the way, I use to shoot pool myself, sent myself halfway through college on playing pool and cards.

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Originally Posted by Billiard MD

First of all, keep in mind.... you were just fine with these people being naive if it meant they were just going to hand over hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of metal for free... But when their naivete flipped a 180 and caused them to ask you to pay an exorbitant amount for their scrap, then all of the sudden it bothered you. But who do you have to blame when you all but told him what you were going to make off the stuff.

I understand that you've never paid for scrap, but that's not the norm, especially when dealing with commercial entities like plumbing companies. You were only concerned with the scrap in front of you, but think about it... you were talking to the owner of a PLUMBING COMPANY!

Here's how I would have handled it...

"Mr. Business Owner, you may very well be right, that could be a load worth over $1500... A couple of minutes ago you said I was the pro when I asked you to shoot me a price, but of course you know that even pro's don't have x-ray vision. You seem pretty confident that at $1500 I'd be getting in your pocket... Since you now know what the scrap yard pays me, what do you think this load will bring once I've cleaned it up and take it to the yard?"

If he throws out any number, let's say $2k, I would say this... "Wow! I'd go for that. $500 bucks would be a great day for me. But just so you don't feel like I'm getting in your pocket, and so I don't have to get in trouble with the wife when she sees a $1500 ATM withdrawal, how about I do this on a consignment basis? I'll clean, separate, load, transport, and unload your material for let's say 20% of the final take. And hey , just for fun, if the load brings $2k or more, I'll buy you lunch in two weeks when I come back to take care of the next load... and if it brings in less than $1500, I'll let you buy me lunch. Sound like a deal?"

I used to play pool for a living... and I'll tell you this, gambling at pool for a living has little to do with being a champion pool player. Truth be known, I'm an extremely good player, but not a great one. But I know people, and I know how to "play position". An exchange like I outlined above serves a lot of purposes... First of all, it lets him know he's not dealing with an idiot. Second, it lets him know that you don't think HE'S an idiot. Third, you've taken him completely out of his game plan, and put him in yours... business owners are Alpha Males... you can't WRESTLE control of a situation from an Alpha, you have to let them GIVE it to you while making them feel it was their idea all along. Fourth, you've squashed the adversarial nature of the direction that negotiation was headed, and instead, put both of you on the same team. Fifth, you've planted the seed for an ongoing business relationship.

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Your advice is very good, and can definitely work in some cases, but as Big Tex mentioned, no matter what you try and do, some people are just stubborn.

I tried something like this with a guy that had close to 10 gaylord boxes full of aluminum. The minimum he would take is roughly $200 for each, but the price at the time, I wouldn't have made any cash at all.

I like the idea that you called the yard infront of him. Next time ask for the price of dirty copper and dirty brass. Prices will be lower. I am sure thats all he will get when he brings it down all mixed together

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Originally Posted by hobo finds

I like the idea that you called the yard infront of him. Next time ask for the price of dirty copper and dirty brass. Prices will be lower. I am sure thats all he will get when he brings it down all mixed together

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That's what I emphasize to people in situations where they say it's got lots of (copper, aluminum, could be fixed up etc) - "I'm buying it for what it is, not what it could be". Otherwise, you can tear it apart and haul it up there.

I personally would have looked it over good then offered him $400. for it all as is. If he balked on the deal, then just walk out the door and tell him to have a good day.

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Originally Posted by Mick

That's what I emphasize to people in situations where they say it's got lots of (copper, aluminum, could be fixed up etc) - "I'm buying it for what it is, not what it could be". Otherwise, you can tear it apart and haul it up there.

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Amen to that.

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Originally Posted by Big Tex

Thanks Billiard, that is great advice! However, the consingment idea was not going to work for this guy, I mentioned it. He said the last guy burned him that way & he would only deal with cash money up front! By the way, I use to shoot pool myself, sent myself halfway through college on playing pool and cards.

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Exactly. If someone came to me with that offer I'd tell them to get lost, so why would I extend an offer that I myself wouldn't take.

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Originally Posted by Billiard MD

[B]
If he throws out any number, let's say $2k, I would say this... "Wow! I'd go for that. $500 bucks would be a great day for me. But just so you don't feel like I'm getting in your pocket, and so I don't have to get in trouble with the wife when she sees a $1500 ATM withdrawal, how about I do this on a consignment basis? I'll clean, separate, load, transport, and unload your material for let's say 20% of the final take. And hey , just for fun, if the load brings $2k or more, I'll buy you lunch in two weeks when I come back to take care of the next load... and if it brings in less than $1500, I'll let you buy me lunch. Sound like a deal?"

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Say I was the business owner and you came to me with that proposal. How will I know I got my money for the entire load?

"I'll bring a receipt".

Okay. How do I know you didn't keep some metal back for a future trip and only cashed in half, or 3/4 of the load?

I hate being negative, but having been burned a few times I really don't trust people.

You mean pawn shops want a profit? How dare they!?

Heck I would have said $40,000. Gives them an $8,000 profit when they resell.

Chances are the woman called you to remove the stuff, they then had someone tell them that they were sitting on a gold mine and he decided to take advantage of you. I would not beat yourself up over this one. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes its a draw. If there was as much work as you think there was in this load then I think you won by not taking it at his price. Too many times business owners in this industry get eyes bigger then their stomachs and don't realize that the great deal they had was not as great as they thought.

By the way, can anyone see the pictures I posted? It shows a red x in the corner, but my pictures are coming up when I click on it! I'm still trying to learn the correct way to add picture links. I have a very hard time with computer's. Lol.
Thanks to all for your replys. I have learned a great lesson from each of you!

Yes, they worked when I clicked the X. I think I wouldn't go over a buck a pound...looks like a lot of sorting, seperating and cutting to get top dollar.

I haven't had a can full of those flex tubes, but the few I have had don't weigh much. I really doubt there is $1,500 like the guy wants.

Looks like a fair amount of brass. That stuff adds up in a hurry.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...69/copper5.jpg


http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...69/copper4.jpg


http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...69/copper3.jpg


http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...69/copper2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Big Tex Good for you that Deal Didn't go through.

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Indeed. Should have told the guy that if he's going to pay $1,500, it better include a large tub of Vaseline.

Dang on man, sounds like you missed a good opportunity.

Now what you need to do is get you a bathroom scale---$15 at Wal-Mart or if ya want to be fancy spend $30 and get a digital one. I'd also go the fishing section and get a hand held fish scale that goes to about 50lbs. Then next time something like this comes along you'll be prepared to make an offer and not just standing there with your thumb up your butt calling the scrap yard on speaker phone.

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Originally Posted by Catfish Bob

Dang on man, sounds like you missed a good opportunity.

Now what you need to do is get you a bathroom scale---$15 at Wal-Mart or if ya want to be fancy spend $30 and get a digital one. I'd also go the fishing section and get a hand held fish scale that goes to about 50lbs. Then next time something like this comes along you'll be prepared to make an offer and not just standing there with your thumb up your butt calling the scrap yard on speaker phone.

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How the hell can you use a fishing scale with your thumb in your butt?

lol. I think that was the point. If you have the scale, your thumb won't be up your posterior.

I dont see how a 50lb fishing scale would help weigh, (as i understood) garbage cans full of brass weighing maybe 200lbs

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Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Man O Man this Place never seems to surprise me

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Its free entertainment at times isnt it :)

The idea behind me using speaker phone was to let the owner here what dirty brass & copper was bringing, so I could have some leverage while negotiating. His expectations seemed so high that I wanted him to hear the true prices from the real buyer.

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His expectations seemed so high that I wanted him to hear the true prices from the real buyer.

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Probably all he heard was a top price for clean copper - brass

Seemed that way! Lol....

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Originally Posted by dryvr12

I dont see how a 50lb fishing scale would help weigh, (as i understood) garbage cans full of brass weighing maybe 200lbs

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Right, for the trash cans a bathroom scale with a little rigging to make the platform bigger would work just fine,,,I put the hand scale in their because ya never know what ya might need it for in the future. If he was giving a price on sheets of aluminum all about the same size, could use hand scale to weigh one sheet and give an estimate off that.

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Originally Posted by Big Tex

The idea behind me using speaker phone was to let the owner here what dirty brass & copper was bringing, so I could have some leverage while negotiating. His expectations seemed so high that I wanted him to hear the true prices from the real buyer.

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I don't tell customer what I am getting paid I just tell them what I will pay them. But whatever works for you I guess.

I really hate to dig this up for no reason. But man, did you get lucky not sitting on this guy's stuff right about now. You could have taken a real beat down with prices crashing. And is he going to be in for surprise if he takes it in himself.