Printable View
this video was taken today. its dealing with small units found in window air conditioners. when dealing with the larger central air units, you might cut it with a sawzall to make it into more manageable size pieces and use the same method. please comment with more tips or anything you might do different to make the job a little easier. thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=514Cq7D1EA0
After months of scrimping and saving copper I took some in the other day. Guy looks at it, goes and gets his boss, who in turn asks if I have a whatever license he called it....I said no.
Yard at first refused it because "I can tell this came from a refrigeration unit and you don't have a license".
Goes on to say he's been doing this a lot of years, and he can't buy stuff like that or his company will get in trouble, I can go to jail for a long time and and on and on.
He finally agreed to buy it, but never again.
I need a new yard.
I like the band saw idea. That's one I've been kicking around but have yet to find one in my price range.
I have a few that are brick shape like 6x6 or so. I can get the outer copper, but over time the alum bunches up and I can't get to the inner unless I can carve it off like a slab. I'll post a pic sometime so it makes more sense.
that band saw was $50 delivered from a guy on craigslist. i even managed to convince my dad he needed one so he payed for it!
the layered ones like that ive seen, and thats when making it into more manageable size pieces with a reciprocating saw would be your best bet. then you could just process it that same way.
as far as the legality of a refridgeration unit, thats a load of scrap. as long as the freeon was collected safely and legally, the metal has no holds against it. he just didnt want you to break it down yourself. he wanted you to think that you had to bring in the fin in tact, so that he could pay less for it. if it was illegal to buy, why would they pay for both dirty and clean al/cu fin? broken or in tact, its all the same. find a new yard, save yourself a headache!
Nice vid filthy. I learned something new today.
ive done the double layered fins with utility knife i dont own a bandsaw, really wasnt that difficult. how much more do you think you make this way? ever weighed some to find out hte difference?
I weighed a two row last year, but I forgot to write down the exact weights. It seems like it was 4.5 lbs copper vs the original weight of 7 lbs for the cu/al reefer. Locally, today, that would have brought about 12 bucks just turned in as is vs. $15 in straight number 2 copper, plus another $1 or so for the aluminum.
I had an AC radiator that weighed out to be worth $12.15 as dirty. Cut the steel ends off and separated the copper curves from soldered and non-soldered plus the clean radiator part and it was worth $14.41. After cutting all the tubes out and separating it all completely it was $17.12. Took me about an hour with a sawzall but it's a used one with cheap blades and my vise and workbench aren't the sturdiest. Was still worth the time to me but if you got better tools would be even more worth the effort I think.
Filthy if you cut down the middle of the copper tubing lengthwise on the band saw the two halves pulls right out.
I see in your video you have the upper guide of the saw all the way up. It should be adjusted down to just above the coil.
That will be much safer and keep the blade from twisting and jumping the wheels.
A bunch of things when you are using a grinder.
WHERES YOUR **** EARMUFFS!!!
Sorry about the shouting but in a few years everybody else will have to shout to you too....
Oh, and your safety glasses, I have had about 10 visits to hospital to get flecks removed from my eyes thru grinding, most just fell in there but a few flew in.
So this info is all from experience.
If you feel something in your eye, but can't see it, still see the Doc, its a burn & the scab is what you feel.
They will give you eyedrops that'll make it heal in a couple of days. (eyes are the fastest healing part of your body)
If it heals wrong it will cause a scab, that can ulcerate after 3-4 days & cause a hole in your eyeball & the fluid will leak out & you will go blind in that eye.
Theres no way back with your eyes.
They use a special pick & pick the scab off & it'll heal in a day.
'Fukitohelmik' or something is the name of the eyedrops I got (I'm not joking!)
Actually I just checked it. Its 'Fucithalmic' http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers...ucithalmic.htm
--------
Gloves, actually I prefer what you have done, use one on the left hand only, better grip on the grinder.
--------
You are right about the right side of the steel strip to cut thru, I cut thru the other side thinking I'd save Cu.
I ended up having to hand pick each loop-end out as they burr over & get caught, almost welded to the steel ends.
It took ages.
---------
Put the object you are cutting thru on a solid support, if it moves, you can see how it catches in the vid, it rips chunks out of the grindstone. Causes accidents too.
You can see it on the cutting edge, it should be fine, like sand, rather than chunky & sharp & grainy.
I kneel/stand on the slab to hold it, keep the revs up & work finely/slowly to save on discs, I use a 9inch, thats what I have, I save the worn discs for the 4 1/2 inch.
----------
Let the grinder get up to speed before cutting, that way the disc holds onto its inertia, otherwise the motor has to make up for it & it overloads the grinder & causes you to work more. The stones are made to cut at certain revs, the top revs the grinder does.
Actually its 'Metres Per second' Thats why you can use the worn big discs on a smaller higher reving grinder, the MPS is the same.
In a perfect world I'd have a 9, 7, 5 inch grinders with different discs. Cutting 9 & grinding 7&5.
-------
A BIG deal about working around cars with a grinder. DON"T!
The hot metal grains that fly out are red hot & when they hit a windscreen they melt into the glass a bit.
They then sit there, embedded, then they rust........ Then they rip havoc out of the window wiper blades, instantly, forever.
If you try & chip the grains out, they remove a bit of the glass & leave a chip hole, ruining the finish of the glass.
I guess something similar happens to the car paint too.
--------
I hate craft knifes, thats a personal thing though. I saw a guys hand a few days ago where he cut right thru his thumb, to the bone, 4 stitches, doing scrapmetal.
I used a superthin 4 1/2 inch disc for the same job.
The bandsaws a excellent idea, so usefull.
I love the idea of folding the condensor around a tube, I didn't think of that & ended up using needlenose pliers & standing on the thing & ripping the tubes upwards. That was a real back killer, walking around hunched up groaning for a while afterwards.
I'm constantly amazed at the cleanliness of American workshops.
Our NZ workshops are all dark dirty '****enson' like pits of grime & soot & oil caked dust layered with rust.
(Thats like a Charles ****enson blacksmithing workshop)
Impressed with the video too, quick, sharp, easy to see & to the point. You have saved a lot of people a lot of time.
Thanks again/e
I score each tube while the condenser is still in one piece. Then I take a small metal bar, the same length as the condenser, and place it between 2 consecutive pipes. With a framing hammer, i strike the metal bar. This collapses the aluminum between the 2 pipes, simultaneously pulling the aluminum away from the areas that I previously scored which in turn, allows me to pull the pipes right out of the open fins. Not the best solution, but it's a start.
I would like to see a video of this if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyjeb
I took the time to do that with some a/cs i had took time to seperate the soldered copper from the unsoldered stuff and they guy weighing it says its all the same... I thought the soldered stuff was worth less.... if that is the case why separate?.. i feel like i got kinda taken... Any advice?
thanks, joe. it jumped the wheels a few times but i found if i held the back of the rad up a little so the teeth went in at an angle rather than laying flat, it cut through the Al a little easier, so i had the guard up to make the cuts go faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by injunjoe
i do like the idea of cutting strait down the pipe and pulling the two halves out. thats how i clean my brass, and i dont know why i hadn't thought about doing it on these. glad to see this post resurface, too
@gtlfindings, my yard takes all refrigeration lines as #2 pipe. so they will pay copper price, but i dont bother seperating it from the soldered joints. i made the mistake of trying it once too, and every time i feel "taken" i learn how to avoid the mistake again.
Filthy, could you use the angle grinder to cut down the aluminum to take out the copper pipes, or is the utility knife better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy
on the larger rads, like baseboard heaters and such thats exactly what i do, i cut down the AL with a fresh cutoff wheel. it makes a fairly simple job of pushing the individual squares of al fin off the pipe and into a bucket, but with the smaller ones, the knife offers more control.
i filmed the process out of order with a few rads i was cleaning that afternoon, but i would def cut the Al while the whole rad is in one piece. not the way i did it here where i isolated one pipe and then cut it.
When I first started scrapping AC units a few years ago I also took the time to trim and separate all the brazed,(HVAC is brazed not soldered) joints out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy
I loaded up the truck with 800 pounds of compressors and all my pedicured copper in separate buckets and headed to "a" scrap yard. The guy first grabbed the copper buckets and dumped them into one container, my jaw fell to the floor thinking of all the time and beers it took to separate those buckets. Oh well lesson learned! Then they hauled all my compressors off on a forklift around the building and came back with a weight, not a accurate reading in the least! My math is very good, they ripped me off bad!. I had got paid for 450 pounds of compressors.
Never went back to that yard, lesson cost me hundreds.
After that first trip I was very disappointed to say the least. I then learned to open the compressors and get my copper, that was a huge move!
I had taken a coil and did a weigh in, cut it up and did a weigh out. This was a while ago and I can't find my figures but at the time I did not have a place to sell the foil/fin, now I do! I will do another test run with my numbers at current market values and see what's up. When I only figured in the net of the clean #2 copper was such a small profit I felt it was a waste of my time, and I strip everything! Now that I can sell the Aluminum fin ( Yard called it turnings) it may just make it worth wild for me to cut them down. The yard payed me $0.20 lb.
What I have started to do is cleanup the single row coils that is easy to just slice with the razor, just to make room . I am up to about 1200 pounds of just coil. I may start to cut them all down soon, still sitting till the market turns back around. I am out nothing but time at this point.
I must admit, I was thinking of how to use all that shinny foil for a Christmas decoration every time I looked at it.
Disclaimer; Please don't try this at home
All inventions and stunts preformed by crazy injun
Awesome. You have helped me to another level of recycling. Up til now I simply used to cut the steel ends off sell the rad. You rock!!
the first time i separated a condenser took it to the yard and my guy freaked.he never saw tubes like this and didnt know what to do with the alum. took it as alum. shavings and gave me same price as cans which is cool with me.he was giving 1.40 clean condenser i got 3.10 for copper and .60 for alum.well worth my time.after i cut off ends i lay it flat on my work bench. i screwed a board on edge of table just high anuff to keep condenser from moving as i score down the tubes.i us a adjustable knife with breakaway blades. you can ajust the blade to the depth you need and when it dulls you break the tip and you have a sharp tip without changing blade.after scoring one side i flip over and score other side one at a time pulling out tubes.alum. comes out smaller and fits well in a bucket.and i find if you wash them off with a hose get all the dirt out and let dry you dont get so dirty.hopes this helps happy scrapin
Filthy, you rock! In one short video you answered all my questions about rad units. Thanks buddy!
I have been told by many the copper was either not worth my time or it was not accessible for me to salvage. You certainly make this look easy enough, I am eager to try your method and am going out to my garage to do so now! (ps: I have 6-7 ac units to break down, so I find your tip GREATLY helpful) Thanks, again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy
hope you have someone safely remove the freon for you, some guys will do it for the value of the freon alone.
Dude, I don't want to bust your chops too much, but what the kiwi said about safety is important stuff. I *have* messed up my hearing and it's not cool. Long hair and power tools can turn you in to Christopher Reeves in an instant--get it caught around a high speed spinning shaft and your neck could be broken. And the sparks coming off of the grinder not only hurt the paint and glass of the nearby vehicles, they can also ignite fuel fumes if the vehicle isn't in 100% top condition.
That all said, mega-thanks for showing how these things should be busted apart. Take care of yourself, dude, you got a long way ahead of you to go.
--Geoff
yeah, bro. i read kiwi's post... actually i read everybody's post. a lot of good info on this thread.
also, i cut my hair off 9 months ago
finally a video showing how to cut the loops off the ends properly, and also how to extract the copper tubes from the aluminum, nice job
So I bought a pair of earmuffs for noise... And I have to admit, those things make a huge difference. I would cut and hammer all day with those things on. Kiwi was right. Amen, brother
I still miss my hair sometimes, but only when I see it on video
You would not believe the amount of **** I get from the wife because she thinks I'm ignoring her and I just plain can't hear her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy
Whatever you paid for those muffs is money well spent, trust me.
--Geoff
I have a set of ear protection with a built in radio. some of the best money i ever spent besides forum membership
Now that sounds like some nice ear protection, ...I've usually used ear plugs or ear muffs in the past, ...but being able to have tunes/radio would be nice too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattInTheHat
Would be nice for cutting the lawn with the lawn tractor too, ...noisy pigs that they are.
The smaller one and 2 row I find are easy to separate with the knife (A safety Note: Breakaway blades should be avoided, ...those tips can do just that, snap off even when not convenient and go airborn), when I attempted a 3 row one, ..that was somewhat tedious. But I had not seen the bandsaw technique either.
Which is also why I haven't attempted a 5 or 6 row that I aquired from a heatpump, ...was thinking of just dumping them off as Al/Cu but they are still kicking around in the garage atm.
Might give that a try with the bandsaw.
Hey since you are using the band saw you can cut thru the copper tubing all at one time that is what i do. have a aluminum bucket and a copper bucket close by to place finish product