Enough is Enough With the Local Scrap Yards!

Hey everyone, I hope your weekend was better than mine. I decided to take my scrap wire into the only recycle center in town with an on site granulator. Being that they have a granulator I was fully expecting them to have the best prices in town. After all, they are the end user other than a refiner. To my utter and complete surprise my 250 pounds of #2 insulated wire was downgraded to low grade wire. Instead of getting the expected $0.40/lb that the other yards were paying I got a measly $0.15/lb. By the time I realized the price it was too late. Needless to say I will officially be beginning the process of designing and building my own wire granulator out of peer and utter spite and because I can. When the project is done I will be starting to buy wire at prices higher than every yard in the city. It just upsets me when the yard that has the equipment to process wire and claims to have "the best nonferrous prices in the area" would utterly screw people over on their wire. * end rant

Sounds like a good plan...Don't forget to post some pics of the 'project' when done...:cool:

Wow I thought the price of .35 for 25 percent recovery I've been getting was bad.

If I offered anyone here $.15 for copper wire, I would have to go into the witness protection system to live to see another day.

I understand you being upset but why didn't you check prices before you unloaded and sold your wire?

Maybe go back and try to sort it out with the boss at the yard ?

Was there any ribbon cable or plug ends mixed in with the load ?

Just tryin' to figure out why they downgraded it to low grade. There must have been some reason ... even if it wasn't a good one.

I thought my yard was stingy - they pay $0.25 /lb for #3 wire.

Wire granulators start at about $25,000 according to Google, and can do about 500# per hour :cool:

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Originally Posted by hills

Maybe go back and try to sort it out with the boss at the yard ?

Was there any ribbon cable or plug ends mixed in with the load ?

Just tryin' to figure out why they downgraded it to low grade. There must have been some reason ... even if it wasn't a good one.

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I think the reason is that they are still trying to make up for the money they spent on the granulator.

Lol ... maybe 406 should just bide his time.

They won't be in business for very long if that's their strategy for success.

He might be able to pick up a granulator on the cheap. ;)

Wow, those prices are bad..... I can still get .93/lb for #2 ins wire (60% recovery ) here. All tape, prongs, zip ties removed.

That's a total rip off.

Even low grade is $0.50/lb here.

My thought is more people need to raise hell with this otherwise it wont stop. Happened to me many years ago before I was on this forum, probably cost me $50. Go back and at least see what the guy says.

Good luck with going to any yard and "raising hell" about prices.

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Originally Posted by jimicrk

Good luck with going to any yard and "raising hell" about prices.

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I meant about not getting the correct price for the material surrendered.

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Originally Posted by andyheim

I meant about not getting the correct price for the material surrendered.

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Usually yards don't give customers the wrong price, the customer just doesn't understand what they actually have. Ask what they will buy your material is before you put it on the scale, then leave if you think its too low. Raising hell will get you nowhere at a yard, they will just ban you from the property, as they should.

Here's the thing...granulated copper is **** near impossible to sell in less than a semiload, and even then the few odd lot buyers will hit you, especially if you don't have an assay report. Granulated copper, especially number two is hard to get right. "Dust" and "some plastic here or there" adds up to percentage points gone. Most granulated copper goes to a mill where they have requirements to make a certain product. Granulated copper is perhaps the hardest thing to sell, believe it or not.

Why? Because granulating and getting both high percentage recovery and high percentage clean copper is an art and a science. They make it seem easy. It's not, especially if you have random employees doing it a few hours a week as needed. Especially #2 wire. Sure, the sales guys at granulator manufacturers will make it seem like a free ATM, that's not the case.

Frankly, most places struggle with #2, and especially stuff below your average lamp wire. They may even have a crappy machine and not even know it...there's a difference in machinery.

It's up to you the know what you have. Get a gram scale and start stripping and find out. Even then, some copper will be lost in processing. Most wire is granulated with a 20c per pound window of paying for machinery, expenses, and profit. That cost only sort of goes down with a bigger machine, but with labor needed to feed, not so much. You have to have semi loads a day to even do anything truly remarkable, and that's only a few yards across the country.

I'd spend more time on learning recovery rates and educating your buyer if needed...accepting that "right" 'might be only halfway to reality. You can give them 35% wire and if they themselves can only recover 15%, guess what...most yards will make nearly the same selling wire as is versus a granulator margin anyway. Plenty of salespeople, so few buyers willing to do math.

I see that the thinner #2 insulated has gone up a nickel to 45 cents a pound since I went in last. The non-ferrous guy I deal with is not a "yard" in that he doesn't deal with steel (does non-magnetic SS). They have never had down graded any insulated wire I've brought in, although they really don't want any computer cable stuff. I wish 406 well in how to turn the tables on the low-ballers!

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Originally Posted by ozarksewaste

Here's the thing...granulated copper is **** near impossible to sell in less than a semiload, and even then the few odd lot buyers will hit you, especially if you don't have an assay report. Granulated copper, especially number two is hard to get right. "Dust" and "some plastic here or there" adds up to percentage points gone. Most granulated copper goes to a mill where they have requirements to make a certain product. Granulated copper is perhaps the hardest thing to sell, believe it or not.

Why? Because granulating and getting both high percentage recovery and high percentage clean copper is an art and a science. They make it seem easy. It's not, especially if you have random employees doing it a few hours a week as needed. Especially #2 wire. Sure, the sales guys at granulator manufacturers will make it seem like a free ATM, that's not the case.

Frankly, most places struggle with #2, and especially stuff below your average lamp wire. They may even have a crappy machine and not even know it...there's a difference in machinery.

It's up to you the know what you have. Get a gram scale and start stripping and find out. Even then, some copper will be lost in processing. Most wire is granulated with a 20c per pound window of paying for machinery, expenses, and profit. That cost only sort of goes down with a bigger machine, but with labor needed to feed, not so much. You have to have semi loads a day to even do anything truly remarkable, and that's only a few yards across the country.

I'd spend more time on learning recovery rates and educating your buyer if needed...accepting that "right" 'might be only halfway to reality. You can give them 35% wire and if they themselves can only recover 15%, guess what...most yards will make nearly the same selling wire as is versus a granulator margin anyway. Plenty of salespeople, so few buyers willing to do math.

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Great points! Don't make emotional equipment purchases... do your homework and be objective! Lots of great advice from folks on here about alternative approaches!

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Originally Posted by 406Refining

Hey everyone, I hope your weekend was better than mine. I decided to take my scrap wire into the only recycle center in town with an on site granulator. Being that they have a granulator I was fully expecting them to have the best prices in town. After all, they are the end user other than a refiner. To my utter and complete surprise my 250 pounds of #2 insulated wire was downgraded to low grade wire. Instead of getting the expected $0.40/lb that the other yards were paying I got a measly $0.15/lb. By the time I realized the price it was too late. Needless to say I will officially be beginning the process of designing and building my own wire granulator out of peer and utter spite and because I can. When the project is done I will be starting to buy wire at prices higher than every yard in the city. It just upsets me when the yard that has the equipment to process wire and claims to have "the best nonferrous prices in the area" would utterly screw people over on their wire. * end rant

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I realize you are in MT, I am in coastal NC not the ends of the earth but close. I have found by building up larger loads of wire and electric motors has made driving the extra distance worth it. Perhaps you can find a similar situation to make more money. Best of luck and 73, Mike

Yep, same here in Central Florida. I think my most recent local trip brought me exactly $0.50 per pound for Copper wire. There's a number of different yards in the general Orlando, Fl. area but I just haven't found much that separates one from the rest, other then convenience I suppose. I can't wait for my next trip down to S. Florida. Heard about Capital Scrap down in Pompano and Palm Beach and decided to take a small sample mix of radiators, copper, wire, compressors, and motors. Seemed that I got a good deal more from them, yet their individual prices were only marginally better? Maybe more honest measuring (scales)??? All I know is that i'm putting together a mother-load (for me), and just hoarding it until my next trip down to sell it to them.

On that note about local yards, this was the first time I actually saw a collection area of computer and/or circuit boards. I hadn't previously noticed that they too buy this commodity. But $0.08 per pound??? That just kinda blew me away for some reason. Maybe i'm wrong but I just somehow thought that there was a greater value with ewaste.
(I am assuming that circuit boards are generally what ewaste is considered to be? Very new to scraping here).

I'm assuming you're talking about Pacific Recycling in Billings, Montana? If so, you couldn't pay me enough to step forward in that yard again. Absolutely the worse customer experience I've had in any business of any type. As long as Christine works there, I'd never go back, regardless of prices.

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Originally Posted by Chaser1

But $0.08 per pound???

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I'd love to get $0.08 /lb for junk boards !

I have never had good luck in Billings. I ended up selling in Sheridan, WY to Zowada Recycling, a mom and pop operation. I am not sure they deal in ewaste, but I know at one time they were competitive with copper and aluminum.

I'd love to get $0.08 /lb for junk boards ![/QUOTE]

They dropped their prices on ewaste down to $0.035/lb last week. The funny thing is Pacific Steel currently has the highest prices for ewaste in the city. They even beat the certified ewaste recycling company by a whopping 3.5 cents per pound.

Definitely a good opportunity. I am for sure planning to jump into the market in the next few months.

As one quote goes: "nothing is more expensive than a missed opportunity"

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Originally Posted by 406Refining

I'd love to get $0.08 /lb for junk boards !

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They dropped their prices on ewaste down to $0.035/lb last week. The funny thing is Pacific Steel currently has the highest prices for ewaste in the city. They even beat the certified ewaste recycling company by a whopping 3.5 cents per pound.

Definitely a good opportunity. I am for sure planning to jump into the market in the next few months.

As one quote goes: "nothing is more expensive than a missed opportunity"[/QUOTE]

You need to talk to the right person. They still list prices on a subscription service that I have. Prices are for LARGE quantities. They are not bad. Contact info that I saw was at the Nampa, Idaho location.

Everyone needs to talk to their local yards. Some of them have incentives for loyal customers. River metals in Somerset has a card that they stamp every time you bring something in. After 10 stamps, they give you 5 cents on the pound extra for any non ferrous and $10/ton on ferrous. I take my copper and aluminum and higher prices items in as I need money, and my shred/tin/appliances, get my card stamped, then when I get a few hundred pounds of electric motors, insulated#2, and lowgrade e scrap, then I take it off and get 5cents extra. Every 100 pounds is $5 extra. When u have 500 pounds of boards and motors, you get $25 extra, which kinda makes it worth while, sence the prices are so low. They also do $10 extra on the ton for ferrous, which means that I get $150/ton on short steel instead of $140.

Also, some yards do dealer pricing if you have enough Valium. It's usually 5-10 cents extra over the general public prices.

So check with your local yards, because they are not going to offer these incentives. You will have to ask, because they are not going to volunteer this, it's money out of their pockets,(no offence to any yard owners, it's just business,). 😀