Unfortunate laws

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05-16-2018, 08:19 PM
robaz

Unfortunate laws

In Arizona it is illegal for scrap yards to accept any copper wire that has had its insulation removed. ARS 44-1646 reads in part "B. A scrap metal dealer shall not accept aluminum wire with a diameter of at least three-eighths of an inch or any copper wire that has had the insulation removed and shall not remove the insulation from the wire until after the seven day period prescribed by section 44-1644, subsection D."

I understand why this law exists, but it wasn't always like this. I wish there was a way around this, I have a stash of wire I stripped years ago that I guess I will have to melt down myself someday.

Are there any strange or unfortunate laws in other states that people can think of?
05-17-2018, 03:35 AM
eesakiwi

3/8ths Aluminium wire is pretty heavy wire...
In fact I'd say it High tension power transmission cable.
Now I'd guess that that cable could only be owned by Corporations who own the Power transmission grids. So if any 'Joe Blow' walked in with a bunch of it, its 100% stolen.
Taking the insulation off is intending to disguise its origins. Hence this Law.

Also, its probably intended to stop people burning the insulation off plastic coated wire.
05-17-2018, 03:37 AM
mikeinreco

Strip it and sell online
05-18-2018, 07:03 PM
ScrapmanIndustries

In Texas you can't get cash for anything besides Steel and cans last time I was down there. And In Cali they tried charging me for a microwave, I guess since it has that pink powder stuff. But thats the first time I've heard of that wire law. Maybe save up a bunch of it and take it to another state. Or just take some in and see if the yards are following that law.
05-19-2018, 03:40 AM
APA

In the state of Ohio, an individual (not a business) is only allowed to sell 1 catalytic converter per day.
05-19-2018, 02:14 PM
auminer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScrapmanIndustries

In Texas you can't get cash for anything besides Steel and cans last time I was down there. And In Cali they tried charging me for a microwave, I guess since it has that pink powder stuff. But thats the first time I've heard of that wire law. Maybe save up a bunch of it and take it to another state. Or just take some in and see if the yards are following that law.

Totally not true. I do it all the time. Some yards want you to fill out some forms and get an ID to get cash for non-ferrous. Some will only accept non-ferrous from registered businesses, some will only do business with registered businesses and pay them by check written to the business... so do like I did and register as a business. 20 bucks at the county clerk's office for an "assumed name" certificate with which you can open a business bank account, too.
05-19-2018, 11:43 PM
Libertytow

Quote:

Originally Posted by APA

In the state of Ohio, an individual (not a business) is only allowed to sell 1 catalytic converter per day.

i know for a fact they dont enoforce that
05-20-2018, 07:51 AM
APA

My good business friend reports legally to the state everyday everything he buys including converters. He is based in Ohio. I have seen the law myself. The police will enforce the law when and how they want.
05-20-2018, 04:05 PM
hobo finds

I live in AZ and my buddy gave me some stripped wire that the yard would not take from him. I left it out uncovered in a tub in the elements for 3 years. The yard would still not take it. So it went into the shred pile on the next load!
05-20-2018, 04:07 PM
hobo finds

Quote:

Originally Posted by APA

In the state of Ohio, an individual (not a business) is only allowed to sell 1 catalytic converter per day.

We can't even sell them here in AZ.
05-21-2018, 01:34 PM
Longhairboy

Wow. I don't think we have any laws about what yards can buy here. If there is, I'm not sure how much they're followed lol. I see burnt wire all the time at the scales, and they pay cash for everything, and you don't need ID. They just ask for your name, and location, but don't ask you to prove it.
05-27-2018, 04:49 AM
CopperHeadAKA

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobo finds

I live in AZ and my buddy gave me some stripped wire that the yard would not take from him. I left it out uncovered in a tub in the elements for 3 years. The yard would still not take it. So it went into the shred pile on the next load!

Considering wire that has been stripped with out burning is easy to see . These laws I think are designed to reestablish how metals are handled & theft . Aside from law there is a trend that the Shred pile is to be the main spot to except .
Yesterday I went to the yard & made $85 with a load that looks like trash to the average eye .
When any one who comes with me & watches the selling aspect , they say to me " You need a collage diploma for this "
It's complicated they say !!
Regulation is the word of the day . To be a scrapper is to be free . Free to make that extra buck to save your life and family .
These regulation's have a purpose to Little by Little change an industry remove the freedom from some one such as me .
The end result materials are to be handled by regulated companies , that is the end game .
Will it happen ?? It's all about the bottom line ( cash) If the bottom line is not affected then lobbyist related to Scrap industry
will not fight it . The rights of scrappers can be stripped away ( A Pun ) after all it's not like we have an NRA running ads .
Scrapping metal is not a second amendment

BUT
We have , The ninth amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict...inth+Amendment

It is up to scrappers to properly define in law what metals can be sold on the Up and Up & force the right to express
But are there enough of us to effect a vote .
05-27-2018, 06:40 AM
Proton

Too many half truths being submitted on this forum, time for me to take my leave.

How about Stripped Copper Wire? (ARS 44-1646 A and B)

Yes, but Arizona Law requires that we can only purchased Striped Copper Wire from a business entity with valid business license/tax I.D. or a registered contractor with a current/valid R.O.C. number.
05-27-2018, 11:03 AM
RLS0812

The Pennsylvania "Beer Keg Law" is kind of ironically humerus ...
05-27-2018, 11:21 AM
hobo finds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proton

Too many half truths being submitted on this forum, time for me to take my leave.

How about Stripped Copper Wire? (ARS 44-1646 A and B)

Yes, but Arizona Law requires that we can only purchased Striped Copper Wire from a business entity with valid business license/tax I.D. or a registered contractor with a current/valid R.O.C. number.

half truths?
05-27-2018, 12:07 PM
Proton

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobo finds

half truths?

https://s33.postimg.cc/paerxbx5r/goa...m-70982465.jpg
05-27-2018, 01:08 PM
jimicrk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proton

https://s33.postimg.cc/paerxbx5r/goa...m-70982465.jpg

HA! That's too funny. Hobo's usually the one doing the goating and he just goated in a way I've never seen before. :))
05-27-2018, 05:01 PM
mikeinreco

I will not condone this publicly but there is always a "black market" for basically everything you just have to ask around
05-27-2018, 07:16 PM
Patriot76

In the Buffalo Commons we are required to declare all varmints or critters in our scrap.. They still accept the scrap, just deduct the weight. Last weeks haul: Baby raccoons.

https://i.imgur.com/j18V5WF.jpg

Our unfortunate law is that they do not accept goats.
06-09-2018, 12:54 PM
robaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proton

Too many half truths being submitted on this forum, time for me to take my leave.

How about Stripped Copper Wire? (ARS 44-1646 A and B)

Yes, but Arizona Law requires that we can only purchased Striped Copper Wire from a business entity with valid business license/tax I.D. or a registered contractor with a current/valid R.O.C. number.

Half truth? I didn't say I was a business.
06-09-2018, 01:06 PM
APA

This forum is very corrupt. You should leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proton

Too many half truths being submitted on this forum, time for me to take my leave.

How about Stripped Copper Wire? (ARS 44-1646 A and B)

Yes, but Arizona Law requires that we can only purchased Striped Copper Wire from a business entity with valid business license/tax I.D. or a registered contractor with a current/valid R.O.C. number.
06-09-2018, 11:40 PM
recyclersteve

Without giving my location away (for privacy reasons) let me just say this. If you take things that you know will be accepted first (steel, aluminum cans, insulated wire that isn't worth stripping, etc.), you may eventually gain someone's trust. When they've seen you come several times over a 6-12 month period, they are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. I had a catalytic converter that I couldn't get rid of for years. Finally, I started going to a new place. After several trips I decided to try turning in the catalytic converter to them. They said they are not supposed to take them, but he took it anyway. Only got $10 for it though. He does accept stripped wire from me without question. There might be an issue if I had stuff that was really thick, like 1/2" or thicker. Then, I can imagine someone thinking it is stolen!
06-10-2018, 12:06 AM
recyclersteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by auminer

Totally not true. I do it all the time. Some yards want you to fill out some forms and get an ID to get cash for non-ferrous. Some will only accept non-ferrous from registered businesses, some will only do business with registered businesses and pay them by check written to the business... so do like I did and register as a business. 20 bucks at the county clerk's office for an "assumed name" certificate with which you can open a business bank account, too.

This could become pretty expensive as you might then need to file corporate taxes (Federal and State) in the name of the business as well. And then a known business which doesn't file tax returns might open themselves up to being audited. Ditto for a business that has little real operations, but continues to file returns and pay for business licenses year after year. I'd think this through carefully before going down that road.
06-11-2018, 09:41 PM
harsas

Quote:

Originally Posted by recyclersteve

This could become pretty expensive as you might then need to file corporate taxes (Federal and State) in the name of the business as well. And then a known business which doesn't file tax returns might open themselves up to being audited. Ditto for a business that has little real operations, but continues to file returns and pay for business licenses year after year. I'd think this through carefully before going down that road.

You are assuming that to open a business, it has to be incorporated or an LLC. You can easily open a business as a sole proprietor and the only cost, after you pay the county, are the monthly fees for your checking account. Taxes get filed on a schedule C attached to your 1040, which, BTW, allows you to deduct all of your legitimate business expenses.

Now, if the law requires you to be incorporated, then yes, you are correct about the possible expenses.
06-14-2018, 07:59 PM
wayne1956

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScrapmanIndustries

In Texas you can't get cash for anything besides Steel and cans last time I was down there. And In Cali they tried charging me for a microwave, I guess since it has that pink powder stuff. But thats the first time I've heard of that wire law. Maybe save up a bunch of it and take it to another state. Or just take some in and see if the yards are following that law.

Have to agree with auminer on this, I have scrapped for many years here in TX, and have never had an issue. I have sold stripped copper wire, insulated copper wire, aluminum/copper ac coils (with paperwork), brass, etc. All I deal with is legitimate yards, and none have ever refused to take anything. This is in the DFW area.