poor metal prices why?

my scrap prices as of 6/29/2015 as follows

non magnetic stainless 0.15/lb 17lb 2.55

aluminum cans 0.23/lb 35lb 8.05

I told the guy it was magnetic stainless but he put it as mis. steel 120.00/ton 18lb 1.08

I had cast aluminum to but he lumped it together}aluminum sheet 0.23/lb 47lb 10.81

#2 copper wire 1.75/lb 8lb 14.00

#2 insulated copper wire 0.40/lb 2lb 0.80

yellow brass 1.10/lb 7lb 7.70

unclean yellow brass 0.50/lb 1lb 0.50

total 45.49

why are they so low? and also what is tare wt. do the prices go back up speraticly? say I wait 2 months would they go up or fall farther down?

Tare weight is your unladen vehicle weight (What crosses the scales when your done unloading).

You take the gross weight, and subtract from it the tare weight, to give you the weight of what you brought in.

As for predictions, lets just say that my crystal ball is in the shop. But, it's a safe assumption that there won't be any large upswings for a while.... at least not out here.

Prices are low because the Chinese and Greek economies hit the fan. Most of our scrap goes to Asia and economic growth their has been slow compared to the US (so they are buying less scrap). And anytime a government like Greece (and by default the Eurozone) is close to defaulting, commodity prices get misaligned. There is really no telling when things will pick up again. It could be in a month, it could be in a year.

Tare weight is also your bucket or container that you bring your stuff in with. At one yard they were screwing around with tare weight I felt they were cheating me on the weight as they did not reweigh the empty container so next time I dumped out all my buckets on the scale, guy was not too happy as the buckets make it easier to unload. Now I have the weight marked on most of my buckets and totes and not much of a problem anymore. I know if they are trying to screw me.

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Originally Posted by mike1

my scrap prices as of 6/29/2015 as follows

non magnetic stainless 0.15/lb 17lb 2.55

aluminum cans 0.23/lb 35lb 8.05

I told the guy it was magnetic stainless but he put it as mis. steel 120.00/ton 18lb 1.08

I had cast aluminum to but he lumped it together}aluminum sheet 0.23/lb 47lb 10.81

#2 copper wire 1.75/lb 8lb 14.00

#2 insulated copper wire 0.40/lb 2lb 0.80

yellow brass 1.10/lb 7lb 7.70

unclean yellow brass 0.50/lb 1lb 0.50

total 45.49

why are they so low? and also what is tare wt. do the prices go back up speraticly? say I wait 2 months would they go up or fall farther down?

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Many yards don't have a seperate category for magnetic stainless, thus why he paid misc steel. Cast and sheet aluminum are usally pretty close in price. They may have been the same and that was why they where lumped togethet.

The EURO as the other big currency in the world currently stinks.
Heck, it might fail altogether.
So by default the USD$ is strong.
Metals are traded in Dollar and we the providers are the bottom of the totem pole. So all price pressure put on by the big buyers (Asia) gets passed down to us.
The Chinese economy is shaky right now, so they don't buy much.
All causes the metal prices to go downhill.

There is no way of telling when it recovers.
Months - Years... your guess is as good as mine.

On the lighter side, a lot of scrappers are bowing out and are looking for other ways to make money.
So there might be more for you to score and once stuff rebounces they might not come back, after having found something better to do.

Just hang in there, as tough as it is.
Not much else you can do, except maybe start working for the man again (HELL NO FOR ME! I quit that 23 years ago)

I would have paid $76 for this lot, with free home pickup

I am higher on aluminum stainless and copper. my buyer sells to chineese yet.

part of pricing is location size of yard ( quantity and storage ) and logistics for shipping. I am in minnesota and sell to a fairly small operation. either they got better contract or are cheaper to ship. my main buyer is non ferrous as most of thier business and can get more for same space and weight.

not sure why yours is lower but thats all I can share hope it helped.

Wow been a member since 2011!

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Originally Posted by kevath

I would have paid $76 for this lot, with free home pickup

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But your in Canada, not indiana, where prices seem to be a lot lower, probably because the stuff has to travel quite a ways before it gets processed.

I've learned that at my yard it's all about who is working at the scale. One guy always tells me to "leave it in the bin" and he's the one that screws me over. He's also the owner's son. Go figure. One day after taking a hit the previous visit, I splashed my copper onto the scale and got told "you could have just left it in the bin. Now he (helper) has to pick it all up!" I replied with "It's better than me 'losing' a pound of copper!" I haven't had any issues since then.

Took a load and went to the guy with the best price in town and even his prices were almost half what they were last week. Only thing holding he said was copper and clean clean aluminum but who ahs the time to clean that crap.

Been scrapping for about 3 years now in Buffalo,NY, when I started sheet iron was around 250 a ton, now down to 105. Aluminum and stainless .40/lb each. Lead acid batteries .25/lb. Thought this was terrible but looking at some of these posts I guess its not that bad. Good thing I have room to sit on my iron, hopefully prices go up soon, definitely tough times though.

Prices started dropping after the Beijing Olympics it seems. they needed so much material to build but now that is not the case.

China is fake everything, they copy and have stolen just about everything they have. There cities have exact copies of even buildings hear in the western world. They are facades, just like in the movies, made to look like the "real deal", but fake. Made to appear like thriving cities, this is done for external and internal reasons. Mostly for internal effect, they want their people to think they have been successful and their society is thriving. All deception, built on wants and not needs! China is going to implode.

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Originally Posted by bigburtchino

China is fake everything, they copy and have stolen just about everything they have. There cities have exact copies of even buildings hear in the western world. They are facades, just like in the movies, made to look like the "real deal", but fake. Made to appear like thriving cities, this is done for external and internal reasons. Mostly for internal effect, they want their people to think they have been successful and their society is thriving. All deception, built on wants and not needs! China is going to implode.

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I visited China once, more specifically I went to Xi'an, Shanghai and Beijing. I didn't get that impression at all. The air quality was a bit bad and the traffic was crazy, but other things were pretty good.

In all fairness, China is known for ripping off Western vehicle designs a lot.

http://gemssty.com/wp-content/upload...-300-proto.jpg
http://toponday.com/wp-content/uploa...3647e6b903.jpg
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/imag...s-45701_27.jpg

If they can't come up with their own ideas, that's pretty telling....

A bit off topic & perhaps a bit daffy:

China seems to be more of a hive mind. Something like a an ant or bee colony. It comes across as being a well ordered society under authoritarian rule. Their strength is in their workforce. They have a strong capacity for logic. Authoritarians of all kinds are pretty strict about managing the finances responsibly. That means building their economy in a step by step methodical way starting from a solid foundation.

It's hard to feature them being in economic distress. Their economy has grown at a phenomenal pace and it's nearly equal in size to our own now. Chinese growth might slow but it's not likely to fall backwards (recession).

Their main weakness is that they don't seem to have the ability for creative thought and innovation.

That's why they have to copycat everything.

That's why we have abandoned manufacturing in favor of innovation & high tech development as the engine of our economy.

Again ... just an opinion.

I only bring up China in regard to scrap metal prices, as they are partially the reason for weak prices now! Many factors at play, a strong dollar, down economy in southern Europe, slumping oil prices and economic uncertainty all contributing factors.

China was buying a lot of our scrap metal and now they are buying much less. Why were they buying so much before? Like a addict, uncontrolled and out of control they were on a "Building Bender". Especially leading up to the Beijing Olympics and even for years after, as they tried to keep a "false economy" going. Some examples of fake building with no real plan or purpose:

Hallstatt in Guangdong - The fake version of the UNESCO World Heritage Site is complete with an artificial lake, imported doves and of course, the houses which were the same as the ones in the Alpine Village that it made the real Hallstatt locals surprised and upset.

Shanghai Minhang People's Court - A morphing of the White House and Capitol Building of the United States, the Shanghai Minhang People's Court is clearly referencing the legal system of the United States. Combing the White House and the Capitol Building, choosing to create a government building in the shape of two of the most emblematic buildings of the United States seems odd (less than half occupied).

Paris in Tianducheng - Unfortunately, this luxury real estate development is a ghost town due to its inconvenient location surrounded by farmlands.

There are many examples of fake buildings and structures in China, Skyscrapers totally empty, Apartments with painted on windows and exact copies of structures with no purpose (Dutch windmills). Visiting China for just a "visit" would be like a kid in a candy store, "Sensory Overload" and would play a trick on anyones mind. The fact of unchecked pollution should be a warning to all. Just as a canary deep into a mine, barely able to sustain it's life, must be reality for those that live there!

China - Economic Powerhouse, Elephant in the Room, Paper Tiger or just a "Wanna-be" (all of the above). China's construction boom has been one of the biggest drivers of economic growth in the past few years.

I just want stability with stable prosperity for all!

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Originally Posted by hobo finds

Tare weight is also your bucket or container that you bring your stuff in with. At one yard they were screwing around with tare weight I felt they were cheating me on the weight as they did not reweigh the empty container so next time I dumped out all my buckets on the scale, guy was not too happy as the buckets make it easier to unload. Now I have the weight marked on most of my buckets and totes and not much of a problem anymore. I know if they are trying to screw me.

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I've seen attendants call out the weight of a container familiar to them before putting it on the scale and they were right every time. After weighing back a plastic tub or a buciket hundreds of times, they get real good at guessing the weights. I'm more concerned about them forgetting (intentional ???) to write down a product and it's weight when I'm carrying in multiple types of material to them in small containers.

China also, for the last 10 years or so, have been busy building the worlds largest and most modern Navy on the sly from scratch. a navy is almost 100% metal.

olddude - You are absolutely correct about China, they have been building a modern navy and a large one. By numbers yes a larger navy with 673 naval vessels to our 473. This is all vessels including auxiliary ships (tug boats, barges etc.), having more vessels doesn't make you a "Naval Power". If the most vessels was how navies are measured, then North Korea would be the greatest naval power with 1,061 vessels. North Korea is not a "Naval Power" or are they a modern navy. Most of their naval vessels are landing craft intended to move troops to their neighbor South Korea.

China is for sure a emerging military supper power, they are #3 on that list behind #1 U.S. and #2 Russia. India is #4, with U.K. #5, France #6, South Korea #7, Germany #8, Japan #9 and Turkey #10. No doubt there has been a major shift of China's ability to project their military might. As a major military and naval power, they however are not even close to us as far a Naval power, nor or the Russians. The US Navy has 20 aircraft carriers, including our helicopter attack carriers. China only has one carrier period and as far as I know it has never left the confines of the China Sea. So far they are a Naval power that only threatens their Asian neighbors, that doesn't mean they don't have ambitious plans for their navy.

A nations military might is measured in many ways, one being a nations debt and that is what our country really needs to focus on. We need to quit fighting other nations battles for them, doing so has squandered our resources and mostly responsible for our huge debt! Most important our best resource, the lives that have been lost or permanently harmed (I'm only counting the American lives too!).

Yes you are right China is building a big navy, We can do better if we only will get back to the basics that made this country the great nation it is, that starts with taking care of us first!

To stay on topic, all that debt is part of why scrap metal prices are so low, as the debt adds to economic uncertainty! Don't think so, all one needs to do is talk to a Greek.

Greeks? Maybe a little. Main thing is global supply and demand.

Australian giants BHP & Rio Tinto seem to have an unending supply of ore, and apparently huge resources to develop new methods of refining and production. Iron ore now down to $55/ton and they are stockpiling next to stockpiles in Australia. (Google it) Rio Tinto just increased aluminum production by nearly 50% at its smelter in Kitimat Canada. As long as they can take dirt and make it into metal on a huge scale, they are going to indirectly dictate the market price for scrap

our biggest market is Chinese scrap processors, who buy mixed scrap by the boatload. When their customers aren't buying so much, or buying cheaper elsewhere, they in turn don't buy as much, bid lower, prices go down.

Copper same deal. Peruvian rock with a mere 0.3% copper mineral content is now being mined and processed profitably, volume way beyond what our Chinese processors can do with our buckets of motors and wires. With worldwide demand down, The scrap processors can't sell as much, can't make as much money, have to bid lower for the containers of shredded wire. The scrap industry wants to stay in business, something's got to give, ain't gonna be less pay for employees or rent, so they bid less for their raw materials. That ripples down through all the middle men, which includes the guy at your local scrap yard. As long as we're willing to accept whatever they pay, they'll continue to have raw materials and they can stay afloat. And let's face it, we show up with a few buckets, we aren't in any position to change anything.

Supply and demand. The supply is huge and getting bigger...do the math!

Makes the whole craigslist and ebay thing more important than ever.

I write down what I take in and compare to the sheet they give back. no trouble since I started doing it.

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Originally Posted by mike1

my scrap prices as of 6/29/2015 as follows

non magnetic stainless 0.15/lb 17lb 2.55

aluminum cans 0.23/lb 35lb 8.05

I told the guy it was magnetic stainless but he put it as mis. steel 120.00/ton 18lb 1.08

I had cast aluminum to but he lumped it together}aluminum sheet 0.23/lb 47lb 10.81

#2 copper wire 1.75/lb 8lb 14.00

#2 insulated copper wire 0.40/lb 2lb 0.80

yellow brass 1.10/lb 7lb 7.70

unclean yellow brass 0.50/lb 1lb 0.50

total 45.49

why are they so low? and also what is tare wt. do the prices go back up speraticly? say I wait 2 months would they go up or fall farther down?

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First lets keep things in perspective , Give or take these are the prices . I'm not so optimistic about the return of what once was . Be realistic. By all logic it will come back but not on our wish Scrappers ride the wave China and Greece have a role But China is building a huge military so they still need metal and Guess What ? There getting it for Less !! We know there
the customer that caused a boom .
Just keep in mind it's possible the buyers of metal have us just where they want us . We still are finding - we still go to the yard -
We take our lower pay 1/2 on some metals . Don't ask why so low ? Whats Low ?
1999 I sold a truck to a yard for $30 a ton granted fuel was in the $1 and change range - and lots of things cost less .

So take your money & find more , or discontinue -This is what it is .

You ask
say I wait 2 months would they go up or fall farther down?

It matters not -- You find You sell - it's kinda like income averaging . Knowing how to find - having inventory - helps ride the storm . finding and hording as long as you have other sources of income could be a nice investment (a messy looking investment )

oh so cast/sheet are always close to the same price? also how do you know if its extrusion or cast if it breaks when hit with a hammer its cast? if it bends when you try and bend it its extrusion?

The extruded aluminum alloy is the stiff frame material that aluminum storm doors and windows are made from. Most of it won't bend but Some will depending on what is mixed in with the aluminum.

There is a softer extruded such as the trim used in older bathrooms that had 4'x8' sheets of a water resistant material on the walls. This extruded is softer and will bend with force. But sometimes the trim is pot metal and will break easily when bent. They look much the same. Also old store fixtures use it as decorative trim.

Many times the ridged will be coated or have color all the way through and the soft extruded is most times a silver/grey color all the way through. I have read that some yards want the soft and ridged sorted and some do not.

It seems that most extruded aluminum is about 20 cents or so a pound more then sheet and cast is. But lately even the prices for the extruded is closer to the other aluminum prices.

Cast aluminum will crack and break up much like cast iron will.

Yards seem to pay same for all AL, with exception to Wheels

Was not China also the reason for higher prices when they were buying? We need another nation to start building ghost cities! I say fire up all the old steel mills here in the USA! Send back the ships that had the Walmart stuff back empty! Process our metal here!

It is a Race! With all the uncertainty political, markets, economic - 18 politicians running for president, none with any solid economic plans. Hold on we are in for a ride as scrap metal prices "Race" to the bottom! To the bottom of the barrel we are going.

i see thanx for the info. also what about aluminum cable is that extrusion? or is it white copper?

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Originally Posted by hobo finds

Tare weight is also your bucket or container that you bring your stuff in with. At one yard they were screwing around with tare weight I felt they were cheating me on the weight as they did not reweigh the empty container so next time I dumped out all my buckets on the scale, guy was not too happy as the buckets make it easier to unload. Now I have the weight marked on most of my buckets and totes and not much of a problem anymore. I know if they are trying to screw me.

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I had the same situation. I don't care if they are off by a few pounds with my e-waste (.08/lb) or motors or transformers (.15-.25/lb) but when i was short 2 lbs of copper on my receipt one time because they screwed up the tare weight, I dumped my next load of copper on the scale and got a "why did you do that, now the guys have to pick it all up?" (it was a lot of little pieces too, hehehe) I replied "it's better than me losing a pound of copper" Now I usually just use shopping bags and make sure I glance at the scale.