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There is a lot of discussion around reselling windows COAs. I would highly caution those who decide to sell COAs to understand the legality of this practice... or lack there of.
As an R2 recycler we have to play by a set of rules. There is a high expectation of understanding applicable laws (local, state, federal, international) which pertain to the scope of our business.
Decide for yourselves if the risk is worth the reward.
Let me say i second this post. I know someone here in colorado that was given a letter from microsoft lawyers tell him to stop doing this same very thing. The letter of the law is grey here but I know for a fact I dont want to be the one it becomes black and white on.
I've had a few people try to buy them from me before but I told them no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewasted
Would you recommend removing the sticker from PC cases before taking them to the scrap yard?
Point well taken !Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewasted
As of early Saturday morning sidemicro.com was offering software keys for sale. As of Saturday afternoon there were no software offerings of any kind.
One should never assume anything but if you look at the overall, including product offerings and unfavorable customer reviews it paints a certain picture.
Another thing to watch out for are those using key generators. ( If the price seems too good to be true it probably is !)
As of windows 8 the product key is stored in the BIOS so the OS is married to the motherboard. It appears they will discontinue the practice of having COA stickers on the exterior of the computer case ?
From what i've read, Microsoft will be offering free upgrades to Windows 10 for win 7 or win 8 systems that have genuine installations.:)
That's something to look for because Windows 7 is already halfway through it's ten year service life.
It's one of those things that just makes sense, no matter where you are.
I use to before I started scrapping to the component.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimicrk
I won't be buying them anymore, but on that same note, I'm building machines with them and selling the entire apparatus. Microsoft isn't very clear about any of this, including using a key on oem machines that at one point HAD a windows 7 key but no longer have support to get a recovery disk. I've called microsoft and navigated their maze of telephony and people to ask this very question. Keep this in mind, I've been in contact with Microsoft for months now, I'm not doing this willy nilly, I sell 200 or more machines a month wholesale.
I've been in the process of of becoming a Microsoft Value Added Reseller. Pretty much means I will be participating as a Reseller but in the In the Volume Licensing Program. It's taken months for microsoft to get with the program...(this open licensing, VLP stuff used to be for oems only) but they have opened it up to value added resellers which is what I am. Originally I had become a Microsoft Registered Refurbisher...but the cost vs price vs volume was not possible. I expressed as much to Microsoft, and recently (this last week) they referred me to the now open to individual business VLP. This has three categories, minimum 5 license purchase, waived on setup of account and license costs are at or lower than I have been buying COAs combined with the cost of issuing myself a new refurbished key from the coa.
If anyone was interested in this, feel free to contact me.
I'll definitely be sending you a PM. At least you have a grasp on all the Microsoft terminology.
As for the COAs, I'd stay away from them! There was a computer shop that did a similar thing here years ago (When XP was still popular). To make a long story short, they were fined $30,000. They're still open, but they're hurting.
For that risk, I'll just buy COAs from authorized Microsoft distributors.
I wish microsoft had a set of rules for licensing but their a victim of having 30 or more diffrent licensing programs...and the legalities of each offering. I hope win 10 is laod out better. frankly i like bios keyed os.
Unfortunately when they are bought and sold outside of their intended, and legal purpose, it has not only put scrappers at risk, but their clients. Truly reckless in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappah
over 500 sold listings on ebay (and this probably only goes back a month or so)
windows 7 pro COA | eBay
When in doubt scrap it out. You can't go wrong there. You may lose a little but you will be safe.
No, you can't go wrong. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm learning microsoft is concerned ONLY above the following instances. Legitimate COAs used on more than one machine at once, Illegitimate COAs, Piracy (duping an activation) which when you google it, you will note ALL of their cases are for actual copyright infringements.
This is what I have been told by microsoft so far, some of it verbatim, some through verbal communications on the phone.
1. An end user cannot purchase a COA from a refurbisher without also purchasing the pc it is installed on, OR by purchasing from the refurbisher an "upgrade".
2. Microsoft holds no position on legitimate COA transfers. Officially it is not allowed, however because of the multitude of configurations, upgrades and the act of refurbishing, a COA may be used (transferred) if the cpu, hard drive or motherboard are from an OEM software equipped device. Microsoft also has 3 different programs, 12 different tiers and 4 different coa types (not software, COA), all of which have their own rules, I have not read everything, and what I have read is contradictory.
3. Microsoft maintains a website for changing COA activations from one machine to another. This is available to MRR and individuals who have a Microsoft Authentic COA in hand. it's the sequence of numbers for generating a new activation if your wondering. As long as the service does not see an active PC that isn't the one you are trying to activate, it goes off without a hitch, phone service is the same way. NOTHING on the service or website indicate rules for which you may or may not activate, only that if it does not work you may purchase a new key.
4. The labels are not to be sold separately. This was my mistake and I own that. Originally I had required a CPU or hard drive from the original machine, as that makes it legal (yes a microsoft representative told me if I am building or upgrading my machine and keep my cpu, motherboard or hard drive...these are all considered OEM parts and maintain a valid COA, if any of these parts fail and it must be replaced, refer to 3. This is not legal according to TOS, but then after I read the agreement everyone clicks on but never reads when installing windows it only refers to a proof of license...which is the COA, not where you got it from. Confuses me too, but then why would they issue me a new key on an old one if I don't use original hardware at all?
5. please keep this in mind. Microsoft can say and do pretty much whatever it wants. I've worked for huge companies before, hands not knowing what the brain is doing or wants, feet doing whatever they want all while they are looking at something else entirely. The MRR people had NO IDEA that the VAR program existed or that an individual could participate.
Let me point everyone interested to the VAR program to a link
https://mspartner.microsoft.com/en/h...thAdistributor
Also, detailed information on what I have signed up for...
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...rams_Guide.pdf
And for customer based retail and service shops
Microsoft Refurbisher Programs
Keep in mind, the last one has rules and they can pull your status for pretty much any reason they want. There is a "test" when you sign up for this and it's basically a knowledge test of their licensing rules. For instance, no third party license sales. The Value Added Reseller is for BULK, that is someone like myself who is build 200-500 machines a month who can make an bulk up front license purchase at a fraction of the cost of the COAs I've been getting or the MRR program which...is similar in cost (slightly greater). I also encourage watching a video on the MRR website called crossing the digital divide, I'd have to watch it again but this talks about the benefits of various programs and cost mitigation strategies. That's what more and more of the e waste guys on this forum are doing, I totally encourage it. Microsoft encourages it too. I have used MRR to build computers for charities, like the boys and girls club in madison, something to keep in mind for all of you, Microsoft does provide options...I just have happened to be the peg that didn't quite fit and it appears they've accommodated guys like me.
I will be completely honest, I never intended to make my business dependent on scrap only intake, or even resale intake. I intend to build wholesale machines, to be made available to regional customers (people I get scrap from as it happens) on a regular basis. Customers who might buy 3 or 4 display models a month but call me and ask if I can provide a certain specification in a larger quantity. I can, and do it cheaper than companies much larger than myself (such as dell and hp, each who offer refurbished PC programs). This is my business model, there will be growing pains, I've designed this whole thing around it, scrap intake enhances my strategy by providing potential wholesale parts and resuable components...even if it's as simple as a case or a power supply. Small and aggressive, that's me ;)
Finally I want to close it out by saying, thanks for bringing the legalities to my attention. I really should have stuck to my guns about receiving COAs with CPUs or Hard drives (or even motherboards). However, legalese aside, what's my business is mine, what's yours is yours. Someone here brought the legalities to my attention directly while another decided it was best to publicize it. I am not too happy with that. Nothing I'm doing or not doing is any business of another business nor is any business of another business my concern unless it concerns a possible deal. Nobody thought to ask what I am doing with the COAs...that's interesting in itself, they don't go on ebay and are not sold. Admin didn't ask me to pull that part of my buyer section, I did it for moral reasons at this time.
I know someone was looking out for me and the other appears to have been looking AT me. Shout out to the guys who weighed in on this, those that came to me, appreciate it.
That's all i have.
Way to own it! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by armygreywolf
There is a lot of great content there for anyone who may have previously been uncertain about this situation.
Great job and keep up the good work!
Please, please, please dont do this. It makes microsoft registered refrubishers like me have a more difficult time uploading a windows 7 license onto it. There is no reason why the COA should be removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimicrk
I second the motion, excellent content in here. You have certainly done your homework.Quote:
Originally Posted by armygreywolf
[QUOTE=Mmarro89;233392]Please, please, please dont do this. It makes microsoft registered refrubishers like me have a more difficult time uploading a windows 7 license onto it. There is no reason why the COA should be removed.
If it's an empty PC case going to the scrap yard what difference does it make.
[QUOTE=jimicrk;233394]I did not know you were referring to the empty cases. But then I would send the question back at you, why would you spend the time taking it off? The source of illegal license transferring is mainly through software or hardware transfers. You dont need to remove but i dont see a reason to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmarro89
MRR program includes the ability to upgrade a license, transfer a license, create a new refurbished key, etc. It's based on a point system. Basically you pay for xx points up front and then consume them in various licensures. Having a COA on hand, has so far mitigated my costs. It doesn't always work like that, it's highly dependent on the build, manufacturer, original license, (if it was xp or vista...) and on top of that it changed again recently...
Anyways, the big point was...I wasn't reselling COAs by themselves, and if I buy again, I will make sure they are being sold with a cpu, motherboard or hard drive.
Microsoft licensing makes my head hurt! That's all you need to remember.
In basic terms, the Microsoft Registered Refurbisher program lets you take a computer that was originally licensed for an OS (Windows 2000, XP, Vista, ...) and apply a new license to it (For either Windows 7 or 8.1 currently). The goal is to reduce the cost of refurbished systems.
OEM licenses can get complicated. That's where my knowledge ends.
With our military and financial institution clients it is written in the security contract that all identification and product code stickers must be removed and recorded before resale to any one. There are occasional exceptions but only 3 or 4 in 5 years.
same olddude, i buy from municipalities and its written in just like that.
This is a great thread with great info. Thanks for starting it.
Just a minor correction, volume licensing and OEM licensing are and have been two entirely different beasts. I'm a huge fan of volume licensing since it makes keeping track of clients licenses, whether it be operating system, Office products, and other Microsoft offerings, loads easier. Only problem with volume licensing is that it's considerably more expensive than it's OEM or retail versions of the software.Quote:
It's taken months for microsoft to get with the program...(this open licensing, VLP stuff used to be for oems only) but they have opened it up to value added resellers which is what I am.
^this -----Quote:
Originally Posted by unitsngold
JustInTime, don't you mean the opposite. I was quoted the opposite, Volume licensing uses less points than if I used points from the MRR website. Where are you getting this from. Not something I want to participate in if it's going to be crazy like that. Unless your referring to enterprise volume licensing (another program entirely) that's a from scratch licensing, this is VAR volume licensing
I work for an MSP and we try and push volume licensing as much as possible. I don't have prices handy but I know on quite a few occasions when clients were looking at, say, Office, for example, we were pushing them for volume licensing and they were turned off at the nearly $350 or so a pop cost. We would have clients going off and buying retail copies of Office Home and Business (or Home and student which was a clear EULA violation) and using that instead.
Now that we're an Office 365 reseller, we just sign them up for the Exchange E3 plan and for something like $20 a month or whatever, per user, they have hosted mail along with the latest version of Office that they can each install on up to five devices each. So they're basically renting office.
Personally, considering total cost of ownership, they'd be better off buying the volume license copy of office. For what they're paying for the E3 plan, they get a year and a half worth of Office for the cost of the volume license version of it. It's a good racket microsoft has going. Easier for a business to swallow $20 / month / per user then dropping $350/ per user every five years or so.
I digress... lol
I'm not sure what OEM prices are, I was always under the impression they were on par with the retail licenses, which are generally less expensive than volume license.
I was also under the impression that there is there was only one type of volume license but I may be wrong.
You piqued my interest so I'm researching it now.
That said, we also have a Microsoft Action Pack subscription which aside from providing software for internal use at a very small cost, I'm not sure what the benefits are.
Ah, this explains the different levels of the VLP...
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...ENCE_GUIDE.PDF
But yes, if I had to guess, we fall under the Microsoft Enterprise Agreement. My guess is someone like you would be using the Open License or Open Value programs, which fall in line with what I believe you were told.
You would be absolutely correct. To qualify I had to prove that we are building existing machines that HAD a license (be it xp, vista, whatever) with upgrades to original specifications. There's a variety of discounts available including age of machine, buying in bulk, end use (such as a bulk buy for non-profit builds...etc.) I do believe this new setup will work VERY well for guys like myself when we start to see Win 10 in the wild for real...not test copies. I also have to warn everyone...it can be a minefield but dig around and chances are you will find what fits.