Yeah scrap is down but what you can carry in a pickup is still good money and $6 gas is what $10 was
Copper by me $2.02 I think it could go lower This is history we are living it.
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Yeah scrap is down but what you can carry in a pickup is still good money and $6 gas is what $10 was
Copper by me $2.02 I think it could go lower This is history we are living it.
I just checked a local yard and #2 copper was 1.90 a pound. Oh well, over the last month I've sold everything because I needed the room and some extra money for Christmas.
you can always find more shouldn't say always but it's out there . A yard owner once told me as I tried to get the most for some copper from him.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimicrk
I remember when Copper was .70 so be happy for over $2 - I never forgot that humbling statement
It's all just cycles but go figure silver popped up a buck or so Friday copper went down during that week - So which metal will be the true indicator
Here #1 copper is at $2.00. Pretty low
Did some serious reading on copper world market . It's considered that copper is crashing . A main issue was China has been a main customer not based on true economic goods but based on simply hording for non use and collateral . Naturally it was not a real market trend of supply and demand . the demand was NOT REAL .
Now other sources from copper mines also put out copper so now we have the real copper supply and demand reestablishing prices .
If you look at the the fact that china also used copper as collateral for companies to lend them money . Those companies lost collateral . People have also invested in copper futures & got beat down . This could very well have been the grand scheme of things . Investors lost and since they hold paper it was not real but the money was.
Scrappers lost but we still have the physical metal . So now we need decide is the dive going to stay a wile ( like Years ) and also keep going down .
When you consider how much more aluminum is used compared to copper . I feel copper has plenty of room to go down & there was a time the spread between CU and AL was minimal . It may be headed for that & It may be time to sell before it's really down .
We all were riding a wave . I'd say we all knew it was questionable .I rode the wave I took apart around 7000 TV's . Copper pipe was found . Wire was reduced to copper #2 , AC's , motors , Transformers , ballast . I rode the wave . I even purchased some nice copper on ebay .
Copper still = money but the fact that China could dump enormous copper holdings into a market . We need realize there is no shortage .
I am not fully sure yet as I need read a bit more , but it may be the time to sell like NOW .
where I'd old dude on this??? will gold dive too?
I do not believe we've been substantially affected by price shifting. Steel has been down a long time now but the reason is both seasonal and demand related. Copper drop was an expectation for me, so I bailed on it early. At the same time aluminum has been great in no small part to the demand for the new f150 (and mustang...and expedition...if we are going there) even the new titan is supposed to have an aluminum hood now. That use and viability of the product will keep aluminum high for a long time to come. We may eventually see China pushing scrap back to the US to drive our prices down...but I think if it happened it would be of desperation and largely ignored. China doesnt have large bauxite reserves so far as I know...nor copper so any dump we see coming from that direction is probably our scrap to begin with.
Things I do expect: Gas will come back up this year, if not by October...sooner. Already Saudi Arabia has been squirming. They claimed they can pump and deliver oil at $17 a barrel and threatened us with it. The real truth to oil is there are grades of crude and not all crude is worth as much as others. Saudi oil is sour, it has lots of elements that require additional processing to remove. Gulf oil is called light sweet crude, this oil produces more gasoline than sour.
A pumpjack in Arkansas costs about $4 barrel to operate. The land transportation is the major issue and cost.
Gulf oil is by far our cheapest oil, the cost to bring it to a refinery is around $30 a barrel at present.
Keep in mind...our $30 light sweet crude is a better product from the start than $17 Saudi sour. China and India might not care but we stand to have a better economy on our $30 light sweet than they ever would on sour. These are facts, oil men will confirm as much, BP is pulling out of Saudi Arabia if you didnt know, they've committed to some russian exploration and much more alaskan, gulf, and venesuala(sp?) I only know any of this because I used to be a hot shotter so I spoke to so many people with a multitude of knowledge it was amazing.
Also...mind blower for everyone: It was agreed upon 50 years ago our oil reserves were a result of the decay of plant matter over millions of years. Now...after having probed venus and jupiter we know it is a geological process and the decay has very little to do with the formation of petroleum. Pumpjacks in oklahoma that ran dry in the 50s were turned on again a few years ago when prices went way up, and guess what...oil came out.
As far as how oil and china affect our demand...I think the pleasantry of this will come to light soon enough. Low prices on the other end give our manufacturing segments a chance to grow and expand...something we need more than ever. The more we make the more we use the more we scrap...and on and on and on. I personally hope we reduce our chinese made consumer electronics and increase american made.
China Is Hoarding Copper. Why? - Forbes
Credit-Mad Chinese Companies Are Hoarding Copper In A Ponzi Scheme For New Loans - Business Insider
China is being buried alive in copper | FT Alphaville
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Why Is China Hoarding Copper? - Share Cafe
Why Is China Hoarding Copper? - Share Cafe
In last week's bulletin we mentioned that stocks in Shanghai continue to grow, in fact Chinese imports for January where up 13.6% when compared to the same ...
RealClearMarkets - Question: Why Is China Hoarding Copper?
www1.realclearmarkets.com/.../question_why_is_china_hoarding_copper_ 123471.html
Feb 13, 2012 ... In January, China imported 413,964 tons of copper, up 13.6% from the same month in 2011. The increase is even more impressive when you ...
These Commodities Traders are Hoarding Copper for the Ultimate ...
moneymorning.com/.../these-commodities-traders-are-hoarding-copper-for- the-ultimate-profit-play/
Apr 22, 2013 ... There is copper hoarding going on in the metals industry that's giving ... a purchasing manager at a copper cable maker in China, told The Wall ...
Why commodity markets are in for a rude awakening - Macleans.ca
Page Not Found - Macleans.ca
Aug 28, 2013 ... The official count for copper and soybeans is likely way off. ... Hoarding metals in China does not appear to be the exclusive domain of foreign ...
Why Commodities Traders Are Hoarding Copper - The Market Oracle
www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40098.html
Apr 23, 2013 ... Why Commodities Traders Are Hoarding Copper :: The Market Oracle ... a purchasing manager at a copper cable maker in China, told The Wall ...
Beijing, We Have A Problem: Warehoused Asian Copper Hits ...
http://www.zerohedge.com/.../beijing...-asian-copper- hits-record-high
Mar 22, 2013 ... With so many paper (ass)ets to chase the hoarding of precious metals .... As far as the Chinese stockpiling Copper...no surprise double bonus.
council denounces china for hoarding copper scrap
http://www.fabricatingandmetalworkin...ces-china-for- hoarding-copper-scrap/
Mar 30, 2010 ... COUNCIL DENOUNCES CHINA FOR HOARDING COPPER SCRAP. The Copper & Brass Fabricators Council expressed considerable ...
I remember back in the early 80s when Alum cans brought 25-30 cents a pound and Copper 80 cents. I wasn't scrapping when Cu crossed the $2 threshold at a yard but as Copper Head alluded to, it probably was when China really ramped up as a global economic player. When Cu "farted" back in late summer-fall of 2013 I checked things out and found out a shadow financing system (as Copper Head has produced here) using copper. One reason is that their banking system is less developed than in the West and operating a business in their semi-state owned economic system makes it tougher to get credit. That, and the fact that China has a very long history of international trading that was run (and most likely still is ) by informal cabals, cliches, and cartels. Copper came to be a commodity of choice in this shadow financing.
So, has the entire time that Cu has been 4x the price of aluminum mostly because of this artificial market influence of shadow financing in China?? Don't know but it looks like a lot of correlation. That's one reason why as a small scrapper I sell when I'm short spending money or I think I have enough to things in some. That way I'm riding the highs and the lows and things maybe even out over time. And I don't worry that I have a bunch of metal that is losing money. Cu may no longer be the "king" of the commons. Long live aluminum truck and car bodies :lol:!!!
This is not what I want to hear at all....... :mad:
maybe all those Canadian penny's had somthing to do with this .
I had a thief take from me 2 years ago . That much he knew. get it , sell it .
Now he probably wont risk it not enough $$
BTW shhh keep it a secret Brass is still good
I'll let you know about brass after tomorrow?
How can brass stay up when one of the main components is copper??
My non-ferrous guy finally updated the prices on his website. Yeah, reality is here as well. The only bright spot is that Alum hasn't changed. Scrapping CRTs is looking even more unattractive now...
Jan 12,2015
ALUMINUM CANS-------------------.60
ALUMINUM POP TABS--------------.48
CLEAN ALUMINUM-------------------.40
PAINTED ALUMINUM----------------.43
CAST ALUMINUM-------------------.40
CLEAN ALUMINUM WIRE-----------.53
EXTRUDED ALUMINUM-------------.53
THERMAL EXTRUDED---------------.40
ALUMINUM TURNINGS-------------.20
ALUMINUM RADIATORS-----------.40
LITHOGRAPH-----------------------.56
MIXED CLIP-------------------------.48
TRUCK RIMS------------------------.50
AUTO RIMS-------------------------.60
ALUMINUM PISTONS----------------.25
ALU/COPPER RADIATORS------.50/.84
DIE CAST---------------------------.37
Bare Bright------------------------1.80
#1 COPPER------------------------1.70
#2 COPPER----------------------1.50
#3 COPPER----------------------1.40
INSULATED COPPER ---------.45/.90
YELLOW BRASS--------------------1.15
HEATER CORES---------------------.90
BRASS RADIATORS---------------.60/1.05
ACSR-------------------------------.25
STAINLESS STEEL-----------------.32
EDM WIRE------------------------1.15
MAGNESIUM -------------------.20
ALUMINUM BREAKAGE-----------.05
ZINC--------------------------------.37
LEAD--------------------------------.15
Batteries---------------------------.20
Electric Motors---------------------.15
Sealed Units (drained)--------------------.07
Ballast (PCB free)------------------.07
Alternators------------------------.28
Automotive Starters--------------.20
Ouch!
Big Burt, just about everything is cheaper here. If you moved here, you could probably buy a mansion for what your house sold for in Cali. I knew a couple who sold there house in B.C. Can and bought their house here in cash. One of the perks of living in a semi-isolated medium-small metro. But it doesn't work going the other direction, not that I'm planning to move to a big coastal metro anything soon...
DakotaRog how well I know that. My sister lives outside of Rapid City, S.D. and I own a couple of properties in Western Arkansas (very rural). My ouch was not directed towards you, but the direction prices all of us will face in the next weeks and months.
Analyzing what's actually going on...I cannot possibly believe china can or would unload for an extended period of time...they can't afford it and I know inflation has been a big player in the last 25 years...250% player if you want to go there...they call it realized inflation, not currency inflation. Anyways, you need to stop and look at the finished product side of the business, copper extrusions, sheeting, electronics, wire and so on. It's all pretty stabled IMHO as far as demand so we just need to keep a real close eye on foreign supply.
Some of the smart guys around here with money to invest might choose to treat copper as a future and trade at above yard price and hold quantity for later. If it truly bottoms out disproportionate to demand, then it's a pretty solid bet if you buy low you won't have to hang onto the material more than a year.
Personally, I'm buying all of the copper I can at the moment and stashing it. I can't see Copper going below $2 a pound. I just dont see it happening.
I think in 3-5 years you see copper over $4 a pound again. Just my personal opinion, I may be wrong.
I said to even say local copper prices here but I don't sell there I go 40miles more for almost 80cents a pound more but I am with others and having been scrapping since I was a kid and trying to steal rail road tracks when I learned they were worth almost $15each back then lol turns out all I had to do was ask and blam I made my summer that year could have been more but being so heavy me and my friend worked hard for them
OK I sold three types of scrap today, yellow brass, aluminum radiators, 6063 aluminum. Honestly I see no change in yellow brass in the last two weeks, holding steady at $1.55 a Lb., Both aluminum's are up slightly in same two week period. On 6 January 6063 paid $.60 a Lb. and today was $.65, 6063 is the same as extrusion for anyone that don't know. Alum. rads. were $.55 today, up just $.02 per Lb. (better than a kick to the teeth). Have not sold any copper this year yet, if my yellow brass is any indication, maybe we are starting to see the bottom of the "Red metal" scrap prices. Recap last two weeks yellow brass no price drop & aluminum up slightly. Keep on scraping!
Over the past few weeks I've sold all of my scrap except my circuit boards. Shred is back up to 180 a ton, #2 copper is down to 1.90 a lb and #3 insulated was down to .37 a lb. My garage is clean again and all circuit boards are processed and sorted. I still have some big transformers that need to be processed and I'll work on those over the next week or two but plan on hanging on to the copper until things get a little better.
How I am looking at it is the new low prices are approaching what they were 6 or 7 years ago, and guess what I was still scrapping then! Take the good with the bad, low prices vs cheep gas and low competition! Only good thing is I have more knowledge now than 7 years ago and can make any amount of metal into more money now than then, from all the info gained here on SMF!
Hobo I think that's as good approach as there can be, besides we have very little say in how the world turns!
knowledge is key . We always said and assumed & knew If scrap price's drop that fuel cost should also . I like spending less on fuel . 10 bucks now you can hunt even in a 318 dodge pick up .
With all the ups and downs of copper , Brass always seemed to hang tight , Melting Bronze and Brass
You're right. Back then #3 insulated was 8 cents a pound here. I'm going to keep collecting as much as I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobo finds
The last time I sold any copper was on 12/23/14, #1 was $2.45 a Lb. and #2 was $2.30. I was talking scrap with the manager of my #1 yard today. Told me today that the best deal he could give me on #1 would be $2.10 a Lb. & #2 $2.00 a Lb. I told him I'm going to gamble a little on copper as I think it's about at it's bottom limit. He said don't be foolish too long as he think another $.40 or $.60 before copper bottoms out. Mainly he says energy has hit no where near bottom yet!