hey guys can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction in how i could identify extruded aluminum and sheet aluminum? For example, crutches, bigger umbrellas, heater cores, window screens, etc? thanks.
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hey guys can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction in how i could identify extruded aluminum and sheet aluminum? For example, crutches, bigger umbrellas, heater cores, window screens, etc? thanks.
Just look at the profile. If it was formed by being pushed through a die, it's extruded. If it was folded or creased to its shape, it's sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEDANIMAL
Think of extruded as Play Do being pushed through a form, then sliced.
Sometimes it is machined further after the extrusion. These marks should be visible.
Everything you listed is sheet. Some heavy duty screens might have extruded. Older windows should be framed in extruded.
If you can break it with a hammer, Its cast.
Check out the similar threads down below, there might be further answers there.
Parker,Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerFlyer4
I would disagree with you. Most of the crutches that I get are extrusions (if cleaned properly). Large umbrellas (yard type), the pole is usually extrusions (have to clean) and the upper parts can also be. Window screens can go either way. Glass windows are almost always extrusions.
Danimal,
You need to keep in mind that for extrusions to go as extrusions, they can have no screws, no putty, no weather stripping, etc.. On the window screens and glass windows, most times there is some cast aluminum holding the 4 pieces together and maybe 2 pieces of cast to remove the screen or glass. The cast parts need to be removed.
The other thing that you need to remember is if the yard can find a reason to buy something at a lower price, they make more money when they upgrade it. Meaning you bring in something that should go as extrusions, but you didn't clean it properly, they will buy it as sheet or worse yet, maybe dirty aluminum. They then spend a few minutes doing what you should have done and then they sell it as extrusions. Your loss, their gain.
I Personally have always known crutches as sheet. Ill inspect them closer if I get some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomasdev
You might be right about some yard umbrellas. My yard would take em as sheet or mixed, I wont spend the time to clean the paint off of them.
Some aluminum tubing is welded, some is rolled sheet and crimped, and some is extruded. Crimped is obvious....example: old style tv and radio antennas. Welded tubing is usually a lot less obvious. Ever look at those old style aluminum patio chairs? There's no sign of welds, but all the ends of the tubes are capped and welded. Pretty safe bet that the tubing is too. Extruded aluminum tubing usually has tiny, hair thin lines, running the length of the tubing. You have to look extremely close to notice this.
all sheet by me as well. Extruded can be window frames, some heavy alum patio chairs and such.
Heat sinks are extruded no matter what your yard tries to tell you. they are 6061 I believe, the heavy ones are aqlu/cu
I have to tell the scale guy that they are extruded every time. But they still don't believe me, even after inspecting them. They are happy to pay me a few more cents per lbs. in the end though.Quote:
Originally Posted by olddude
All the yards that I use that have an extrusion category, you don't need to clean paint for them to go as extrusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerFlyer4
I've never known crutches to be anything other than old sheet. If its cleaned it *may* go as what I know as ''clip.''
Umbrellas are bought as old sheet and then we upgrade them to painted extrusion or #3 extrusion
many aluminum heat sinks are extruded, for sure not all. Buying at my scale I have seen more than a few heat sinks that are aluminum plate with fins in them like this:
Progressive Stamped Heat Sink Project Highlights
I have also seen a lot of small heat sinks that are injection molded or cast.
Product Description This Aluminum Heat Sink Fin Assembly was
developed for a Projection Television applicationCapabilities Applied/Processes
Development
- Develop a Cost Effective Heat Sink for
Maximum Heat Dissipation
Stamping
Custom Mechanical AssemblyEquipment Used to Manufacture Part
Minster
- 150 Ton
Brown Boggs
- 200 Ton
Tooling
- Progressive Dies
- 8 Stations for Base Plates
- 10 Stations for Fins
Overall Part Dimensions
Base Plate:
Material Thickness: .065"
Length: 6.5"
Width: 3.5"
Height: 1.0"
Unfolded Fin
Length: 18"Folded Fin:
Material Thickness: .020"
Length: 5.75"
Width: 3.25"
Height: 1.50"Tightest Tolerances Base Plate: ±.005"
Folded Fin: ±.00075"Material Used Aluminum Estimated Part Weight .35 lbs Features/Benefits Custom Staking Method of Incompatible Material Thicknesses
- Eliminates Glue Seal & More Expensive Techniques
In Process Testing/Inspection Performed
In-Process Real-time SPC of Critical Dimensions
CMM Measurement
Strength Testing on Stakes
Cleanliness Sediment Testing
Dimensional Results Reporting
Control Plan
Process Flow DiagramFailure Mode and Effects Analysis (FMEA)
Gage Repeatability
Reproducibility Variable Data Report
Raw Material Chemical Composition Results
MSDS - Material Safety & Data Report/Substances
and MaterialsIndustry for Use Consumer Electronics Volume 600,000 Pieces Packaging Special Pack Thermal-Formed Packing Trays
- Anti-Static
Lead Time Tooling: 14 Weeks
Production Parts: 6 WeeksDelivery Location Tenessee
MexicoStandards Met Customer supplied print, 2D CAD Drawing Product Name Heat Sink Fin Assembly
^^My big yard I sell to buys those as old sheet but if I clean them they become extrusion and the fin part goes in old sheet.
I think this thread just shows everyone how different things are from one yard to the next and how important it is to now how each of your yards classify items and what they pay for them in order to maximize profits.Quote:
Originally Posted by newattitude
I have 3 yards that get 99% of my material. One large multi location yard only has clean and dirty aluminum (and aluminum rims). My main yard closest to my house has many categories, but not Mixed Low Copper Clip, otherwise know as MLC or Clip. They do have a Solids category that may be the same a MLC. Another yard about 40 minutes away has numerous categories. I'm not up there enough to have a full understanding of how they grade every category. I have sold computer heat sinks there and most times gotten extrusions. I did get MLC once for them.
As New has indicated, yards will purchase as one category and upgrade to another, as her umbrella explanation shows. My advice to everyone is to ask alot of questions at your yards. Learn the way they grade and what you need to do to upgrade these items yourself.
Man iam lucky I guess. My yard only differentiate' s cans (higher price) everything else goes in same tub, same price.Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomasdev
But having worked at that yard I know they separate it themselves.
Extrusion is defined as the following.
The process of generating a surface by translating a plane curve parallel to some line is called extrusion, and surfaces that are generated by extrusion are called cylindrical surfaces . A familiar example of the surface of a right circular cylinder which can be generated by translating a circle parallel to the axis of the cylinder. The following theorem provides basic information about graphing equations in two variables in 3-space.
Theorem: An equation that contains only two of the variables x, y, and z, represent a cylindrical surface in an xyz coordinate system. The surface can be obtained by graphing the equation in the coordinate plane of two variables that appear in the equation and then translating that graph parallel to the axis of the missing variable.
I hope this clears things up.
I only get to answer someone like this about every 5 years, so I could not resist
the yards by me take heatsinks as old hard sheet- i know im being ripped off bcos they're def extrusion.
i dont know whats their reason for this.
i wont be surprised of they sell them as extrusion after buying it from us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmoorad
My yard refuses to accept that crutches are extruded. I guess because SOME are not extruded that means for them that NONE are extruded.
If you cannot see the seam inside the tube where it is mended together, it should be considered extrusion. Sometimes you cannot see the mill lines on the outside of aluminum which identifies extrusion without the aid of a magnifying glass. If you share this with the yard they should appreciate your knowledge and might be acceptable to other questionable metal. It really helps when you have a sample of each to demonstrate your keen eye. At least they will be less likely to play games with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by 520
I did just that. Even showed the scale guy that it broke while sheet bends. But they are good to me 99 percent of the time and these days I rarely scrap crutches or walkers so I am not too worried about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot76
It's my personal policy to not argue with the small scale guy. If I had a whole load of something and was having an issue I would just go over his head or just take the material somewhere else.
I contacted the national scrap metal assoc...this is their reply:
.......however, your complaint was followed up and discussions took place yesterday with the Branch Manager at Reclam Phoenix as well as the Divisional Manager in KZN who advised that the product sold to them was not extruded but “sawed” into its form. Therefore, Reclam purchases it as “hard sheet” which, in turn, is sold on as “hard sheet”.
It has been pointed out that if you are not satisfied with the price offered by Reclam Phoenix, you should seek an alternative purchaser based on the 'Willing-Buyer-Willing-Seller' principle.
Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by msmoorad
I would hazard a guess that extruded is one composition of metal, sheet is basically random and different. They are probably buying extruded based on that composition, as far as the mill is concerned. Theoretically, you could probably push average aluminum through an extractor and it still be base aluminum, not the chemical composition needed for true extrusion. An XRF gun and some research could probably answer this more definitively.
The yard tryed to tell me my extrusions were sheet alum today, Then they said half was cast. Scale guy double checked with another employee. I took back my extrusions and said to take this piece and ask your boss. Dude came back.... EXTRUSIONS!!!! This was after the 184 lbs of old sheet alum I just sold them.
It's also a good idea to separate the different alloys of extruded. 6061 and 6063 are the most common we see coming into my yard and are pretty easy to tell apart, separate, and are worth different amounts (6063 is worth more).
6061 is typically used for structural applications (like trailer floors or frames) and is usually heavier duty, thicker, and more brittle. 6063 is usually thinner, softer, and more flexible (aluminum window frames are typically 6063).
Also of note, just because it's not extruded doesn't mean it's old sheet. 6061 is also in clip/plate, as well as 1000, 3000, and 5000 series alloys. Easiest way to tell what alloy you've got is by the application. You should always know what you've got and segregate before showing up at the yard if you want to maximize your value...the scrap yard will separate to sell it to more money if you don't.
i was busy stripping printers for the past 3 weeks.
in the pic in the link below, is a pic of the pile of alum & stainless steel that i got from the printers:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
what i want to know is:
from what you can see, is that extruded alum?
i tried to sell it as extrusion since those big blocks are all one clean piece each but the yard said they will accept it as old hard sheet.
so thats what i ended up selling it as...all 704 lbs of it.
Yeah, there's extruded in there. Some of it looks like it's not clean/bare though. Looks like there is tape or gunk or something on it.
From what I can see it looks like extruded but there's not enough detail to see if there are folds, crimps or solder at the seems, the former indicating sheet and the latter 6061. Some places don't buy 95% extruded (dirty extruded), only bare and painted. So it could be extruded and the tape and glue and such meant old sheet to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by msmoorad
Thanks Guys ... It's a lot of helpful information.
I've had some spare time this winter so have been breaking down hard drives and some other electronics. Haven't done copper and aluminum in awhile so it's a bit of a puzzle on how to sort everything. Any feedback or opinions are greatly appreciated.
My best understanding so far:
Hard drive bodies painted: 6061
Unpainted older hard drives: 5052
Spacer rings: 6061 - T1 ... but some are stainless ?
Platters: 6061 extruded sheet ?
Hard drive motors: Electric motors aka copper bearing ?
Hard drive front covers: Can be sheet aluminum or stainless. Chuck the cover if a magnet sticks to it ?
Most processor heat sinks: 6063 ?
Most regular heat sinks that you pick off a power board: Clean extruded ?
Marine electronics shells like fish finders, radar, location plotters : Oxidized cast ? Old cast ?
Electric motors ends: Maybe oxidized cast -or- magnesium ?
here by me, it seems that the yards accept only window & shower door frames as extrusion without a fuss..everything else, they seem to have something to say about it even though the item was bought/sold as extruded alum .Quote:
Originally Posted by hills
the guy at the yard said something about the stuff i brought in having the wrong profile...
funny thing around here aluminum prices are as low as I've ever seen them.........The guy that lets me mix it all together and purchases it in bulk is paying more than the yards that require it to be separated.......