Towing vs Hauling

I hope I'm in the right forum section.

Anyways, I have a question. I'm purging a lot of the "worthless" E-Waste that we have to make room for a computer refurbishing center. I'm moving gutted printers, scanners, computer cases, gutted, iMac G3s....

I get paid $0.05 per pound for this stuff. It'll cost me $50 in fuel to make a trip. I'm using a 1987 Chevrolet 1/2 ton truck, so I can haul about 1200#, for a day's profit of $10.

Now, I've towed more than 1200# with the truck. For shorter distances. I have 125 miles to go each way. Am I better to keep putting loads in the beds, or would it be best to hitch up the trailer? I don't want to damage the truck, and I cannot afford a larger truck for this project. We have a 3/4 ton being fixed up for us, but it'll be a while before it's ready for us.

This is the truck and trailer in question:
http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/...ps02d05a83.jpg

The trailer is rated for 5000# gross, and has brakes. The truck has a 305, 700R4, and an unknown rear end (I'm guessing a 3.31). Chevrolet didn't release towing numbers that I'm aware of.

What would you do?

Thanks for the help!

Keep it out of overdrive any time you have a load in the bed or towing to save the torque converter/ trans.

Done and done!

My father burned out a few E4ODs that way. His loads were heavier, but I still keep in in drive to be on the safe side. Plus, I like to go slowly when hauling/towing anyways. It gives me more time if an emergency comes up.

Of course I'd like to maximize my trips as much as possible. I'm just not sure which way is best. I'd assume that it would be safe to tow over 1200# of stuff on a trailer, but I'll defer to those who know more than I do (Almost anyone!)

I'm not over experienced with trailers and not knowing your rear end , I would put as much as possible in the truck bed and try to do without the trailer for safety sake .the only advice I found online was this ....

Edit: Look inside of the glove box... it should give the actual towing capacities.
Keep in mind:
GCVWR - Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, the max weight of the truck and trailer, everything loaded up, on the road
GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the max weight of the truck loaded and on the road
Curb Weight - Empty truck (I think they assume a half tank of fuel, no passengers)
Trailer Dry Weight - worse than curb weight... stripped, empty trailer, no options installed, no LP, no batteries.

Tongue Weight - This one can sneak up on your with toy haulers. They tend to be very nose-heavy since they were designed to carry heavy cargo behind the axle. A WD Class-IV hitch is a must, as tongue weights can easily exceed 1,000.

What Chevrolet used were called RPO codes (Regular Porduction Options?). They put all of these on a label in the glovebox. It looks like this (Not my truck, though):
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...icePartsID.jpg

All of the codes mean something. It could be an engine size, suspension package, or just color-coded seatbelts. There isn't one for towing. The truck originally was rated for 5200# GVW (Truck + Payload). Being a 2x4 model with no options, 1300# puts me right around 5200# with me in it.

The bumper hitch is rated for 7500#, and looks factory to me. The RPO code for the axle says that I have a 2.76 rear end, but I'm not buying it. According to a table of options, that axle was only offered with a 350. I have either a 3.08 or a 3.73 from the factory. What's there now is anyone's guess.

My 1995 F150 could barely move a 5000# load down the road with the 3.31 axle. This truck pulled a similar trailer at 60 MPH without breaking a sweat. A manual in the Ford can't make it that bad, can it?

Being a 30 year old truck, I don't know it's history. We bought it in 1996, but as for what the last owner did- all bets are off.

I can't find any towing numbers from Chevrolet on these old beasts.

If my understanding is correct, pulling a load is easier than carrying it, correct? Would you be better off with that load on a trailer, opposed to on the truck bed? 1300# fills the truck up. If I were to dump that load on a trailer, would the truck do better? Would it do worse? Would it matter that much?

Depends on your clutch fly wheel condition . If they were up to par on would imagine it would tow fine . But with the larger motor in the chevy I can see why it seems like it takes less effort .

I think it would be less stressful on the truck but it would be a push when you factor in trailer weight . Shame the yard is such a distance from you . Hope you get the 3/4 ton back before expected . Just. To take some confusion off your hands . That chevy spec sheet is unreal it's more confusing than blindfolded underwater trigonometry .

U177b is your paint code

Here this might help .

GM RPO Codes

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If my understanding is correct, pulling a load is easier than carrying it, correct? Would you be better off with that load on a trailer, opposed to on the truck bed? 1300# fills the truck up. If I were to dump that load on a trailer, would the truck do better? Would it do worse? Would it matter that much?

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If it were me I'd put the load in the truck cause you have more chance of something happening with a trailer on. Plus the fuel mileage should be worse dragging a trailer. Better able to control your load with it on the truck. Course if the load is big enough for the truck and trailer then my advise is to take it easy on the speed and don't rely on a bumper hitch but a class 4 or 6 instead. Should have trailer brakes on that size of trailer also.

Yes, you can tow much more than you can haul. For instance, a typical 1/2 ton pickup can legally haul about 1700 lbs. That same pickup can tow 10,500 lbs.

And like Mech said, I wouldn't take this 100 mile trip with a bumper hitch. Maybe if the yard was just around the corner, but not on the Hiway.

Edit: I'd wait for your 3/4 ton to get fixed.

It would be nice. Sadly, our guy works on his own schedule. It may be ready next week, or it may not be ready until July. He still has projects from when I bought my Buick over two years ago. He's good, but not quick!

The trailer does have brakes. We do have a receiver hitch on there now (Didn't in the picture).

Thanks Metalbestos for the RPO code list. I saw a shorter list before, but apparently there are trailer towing codes. It's probably the closest we'll get to actual numbers from GM.

The closest comparison numbers I could find were from Ford. This is for the 1993 F150s:
http://www.f150forum.com/attachments...de-trailer.jpg

For the 5.0L V8, Auto transmission, and the 3.08 ratio, I'd be able to tow a 5000# trailer. We'll call the Chevrolet rating 4000# until I can check the numbers. Now, for the Ford, the 3.55 ratio actually lowers the tow rating????

I thought I had a graasp on the concept. This is really starting to get confusing!

Can I ask why your not charging for removal? You realize every time you haul with a trailer, every single time you put the hitch on the ball you should stuff 20 bucks somewhere for a transmission overhaul. We (me too) drive and use half ton trucks for 3/4 ton purposes. Knowing all this, and knowing a beefier truck is not an option, sock away twenty bucks every time you tow or haul something truly heavy for that inevitable moment your transmission fails. Likewise the 305 doesn't last forever either working hard down low. I charge to take carcasses UNLESS I am getting significant e waste to go with the lot. a fist full of memory does not quantify the wear and tear on my truck for hundred dollar on the ton sheet iron.

I guess if it's for a long standing client that's different, or if your trying to get your foot in the door...exceptions to be made and all that.

i can speak to Chevy but i can for ford (4 owned - 300 i6, 4/5 speed) and dodge (1 owned 318 / auto). all my trucks have had tranny coolers which makes a HUGE difference for towing by taking some heat off from added strain.

the fords i have run 1000-2200 in bed with a 4500 pound tandem trailer with between 1000-7500 pounds in load.

the dodge has regularly seen 800-1600 in the bed with a tandem trailer about 2000-4500 lbs and loads between 1500-8000.

load your bed first after hooking up trailer. load the trailer next and shift weight to keep it over trailer wheels and towards the back more off the tongue and rear axle. with practice you can really pack in weight and not worry about damage.

having a well designed trailer helps immensely to distribute weight and increase load.

as for what it can pull every one is different. i pulled 3500 pounds regularly with a 305 th200 auto tranny on my 84 Pontiac Parisian ( Chevy caprice ) in the form of a trailer and toys or a boat. just used truck tires on the car to get more bite and weight capacity. so you should be fine at the very least with 1500-2000 pounds on trailer.

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Originally Posted by armygreywolf

Can I ask why your not charging for removal?...I guess if it's for a long standing client that's different, or if your trying to get your foot in the door...exceptions to be made and all that.

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I got a lot of usable stuff. I have about 10 pickup truck loads (No trailer) of junk to haul out, but I took in over 30 Intel iMacs that I sold, over 10 iBook G4s that I sold, and about 10 Quad core Mac Pros that I sold. My computer store has been well-packed with their stuff for the last three years. I have over 75 Core 2 Duo Dell desktops that are ready for refurbishing.

And, I didn't get the gutted cases. I gutted them, and sold the RAM/Motherboard/.... This is just what I have left from the process- things like iMac G4s that are essentially an LCD screen attached to an empty base.

I shouldn't complain- I've made over $10k from these two clients, and that money has helped to pay off the building that is now my office. I just have a ton of junk to remove before I can really get going on the refurbishing.

If I had the money, I'd go and find a cheap Chevy 2500. I don't have $1500 to spend for 10 trips, though.

@BCrepurposing Can you explain how you load? How much weight do you put on the bed, and how does that correspond against tongue weight? Are you better to put 500# or so in the bed, or are you best to put it in the front of the trailer, and leave the truck bed itself empty (Or close to)???

The last load that was a combination tow/haul I did was in the picture. I drove it about 75 miles in Drive. There was about 900# in the bed, and another 2000# on the trailer (Not counting the weight of the trailer itself). The trans temperature (Have a gauge in there) stayed about right- maybe 10-20 degrees warmer. I'm just a little shy on the whole idea- this is a longer trip.

Keep the thoughts coming! I've already learned a lot here!

I dont even know where to start.But the first thing is why are you driving 250 miles to make $10 or better yet at all for that matter.
I would load the truck and trailer and roll with it.Or you could just load it all on the trailer

We don't have any yard closer to us. We're in Wyoming, where there is nothing but miles and miles of miles and miles. It's either this or the landfill. I won't send stuff to the landfill for moral reasons, and it would cost more. I'm one of the only E-Waste processors in the entire state.

If my truck can handle a load on the trailer, I'd be for it. I'm trying to get some numbers for what I can expect to do. I'd rather break even on loads than kill the truck. I'm interested in hearing some scrap loading tips, and other things. For example BC mentioned splitting the load- some on the trailer and some on the truck. Does anybody have any recommendations on how to split the load?

If I can haul 2500# on the trailer with nothing on the bed, instead of breaking even, I'd be making $75 per trip instead of breaking even. That's a lot better! Now, how much weight is a resonable number???

Can you not break the material down to increase the value (THE EMACS?)

Not trying to be a smart a$$ Matador, but nobody here knows your truck or your trailer. You Know your truck and trailer.
Myself, I would not load the truck bed with anything and load the trailer up to 5000lbs. Gross. You load the bed up + the tounge weight and your suspension may not like it. Looks like your saggin pretty good on the pic. Rear pu tires are squatting some too. How are the brakes on your truck and trailer?
The one thing you don't want is to be over 5000 on that trailer, get pulled over by the WY HP, and have them crawling all up inside your colon.

The iMac G3s are essentially a CRT with nothing of value now. I've pulled the logic board, hdd, ram, and the degausser cable. This is just the sludge from the process if you will. (Except the scanners- they just go straight to shred).

The brakes are in good shape. The trailer ones were checked this spring, and the truck has new rear shoes and drums.

No problem with the smart-a$$ stuff. It's understandable. I was hoping someone used a similar truck and would have some insight there.

So, just load the trailer and leave the truck bare? Seems simple enough to me!

Trust me, I'm not going over 5000# on the trailer. The flooring is a little sketchy in spots, and that would concern me with being too much weight.

I was figuring on about 2500# load, plus 1500# for the trailer, for 4000# total. Does this seem reasonable?

a general ratio is 55% over wheels 15-20 % tounge and 25-30% on rear.

keep heaviest stuff on axels. the reason for less on tougne is it keeps less weight on bumper. meaning less on shocks and springs. meaning bigger load.

i load bed before trailer because it gives counter weight to rear of trailer and helps with traction and helps you plan the majority of the load on the trailer.

next is over axels then i split between front and back as required to level the bumper.

to much weight forward and you ruin suspension and risk breaking an axel. to much back and you you have no traction as it lifts the rear end of the truck and strains the reciever or bumper or in severe cases with a old rusty truck the frame between bed and cab.

you need proper tires to do the job too. trailer tires have a stronger sidewall enabling a bigger load then car and truck tires and can skid or turn better without damage. also check pressures and keep them at max pressure or a little over on heavy loads.

i usually run regular lt truck tires on my truck but when i find them cheap and with good tread i preffer load range E tires or 10 plies. i have required a more agressive tire that cleans better for my last few jobs so have been using all terain tires which can be difficult to get in higher load range. i suggest firestone transforce E range if you want good ballance between them. good snow ice and mud traction and heavy sidewalls for loads.

also look at getting load helpers or if you got a solid frame and can handle the rougher ride add coil springs / coil overs or swap to a set of 3/4 springs. the shocks are essentially the same.

brakes ( bigger, heavier duty ), springs ( 2-4 more leafs) and heavier frame (thicker by about 1/8") is the big difference between 1/2 & 3/4 tons. halfs get alot better milage normally due to exta weight on same drive train.

motor wise 400, 350, 327, 305, and 283 are essintially same motor block. 283 parts makes a 307. use 327 parts and make a 317. 400 and make a poor mans 383. just because your 305 is smaller and doesnt eat the gas the bigger v8s do dont let them fool you into thinking it cant work for its fuel. a little work and it can melt the tires off with thier over expensive gas guzzling crate motors. only difference is you have cheaper parts because you didnt build as commonly used of a motor and wont have the mainence bills that comes with it.

above it was suggested to squirrel for damage and i do agree. brakes get hit harder, it is extra strain on tranny and motor as well as steering / suspention parts get hit hard by towing. a fact of towing.

You figure mainance costs for your truck right? you will hear various numbers and amounts you should save. I save a % of each load for mainence and upgrades. This will also potentially allow you to save for another truck & trailer too.

mine is 10% i squirrel away for truck or car use and 15-20% for truck / trailer.

you haul more with a trailer and make more money. i average about $150-300 per load of white goods (appliances) and would be at $30-60 with a just truck. by the time i figure gas costs i can make 1 trip for 2 mpg less with a trailer than the 4-5 required for same space.

Wow! That's a lot of great information.

The truck does have LT tires on the rear (I believe 10 ply).

I keep a maintenance budget, but it's not percentage based. I can basically any major part that's needed. I have around $600-700 set aside for the old girl if needed. I'm switching over a lot more towards refurbishing, so we'll be getting another vehicle of some kind. I don't know what yet, but we'll have that and the 3/4 ton coming in later. The 3/4 ton will also be used for towing on the farm.

This is just what I have for now. Thanks for the loading tips! Since I'll be adding/making sides to the trailer, would you divide it into three "bins", or just make one area and lump the weight as best as I can?

I'll make sure to put the inkjets in the front! :D

Thanks for all the tips. They're a huge help!

i leave mine open.

rather than compartments persay you can add stake pockets on the top of the sides.

Then make removable dividers that fit where you need them or can be used to extend up side boards. just remember to add eyebolts or rings to keep the sides togeather and help secure things.

taller side boards lean out and can break if you dont. I use chain attached via locking carrabiner to the eye bolts and then a load binder every 2-8 feet but space them how you want. ratchet straps work too and are more versitile.

i gave them spaced on 2' that way i can pin appliances with them without using straps.

also may sound over kill but run at least one chain ( i use 2 in a x) locked with a load binder. locking carabiner again in handle through chain so cant pop open over the rear of trailer to pin the rear board. if you lock brakes with just that rear board on you may send your load flying out the back.

after spending a half a day hand loading and stacking 20-40 appliances you dont want to have to do it again in the middle of road. not counting money saved from tickets and damage by a minute of time.

To get an estimated axle ratio jack up one side of the rear end, put a chalk mark on the drive shaft and a mark on the tire, rotate the tire 1 revolution and count how many times the drive shaft turns.
1 rotation of tire, 2 3/4 rotation of drive shaft = 2.75 gear ratio (2.79)
1 tire, 3 1/4 drive shaft = 3.25 (3.11)
1 tire, 3 1/2 drive shaft = 3.50 (3.56)
All numbers are approximate.

If I were you I would add sides to the trailer and put all the heavy large stuff on it, with all the smaller items in the truck bed. I have cages on my trucks and I heap them up and strap them down. I guess I must be spoiled with two yards within 30 miles and suburbs in between so I make money going to and from the yards.

Inkjets in the truck it is! They're all plastic it seems.

Well... with towing I hope to make a little bit of money instead of just breaking even. Reusable stuff is where I really profit. When I can pick up laptops for free from schools, and make $100 profit per, I figure I'm coming out alright. ;)

Plus, if the yards were closer, I wouldn't have as much business.

My next investment is airbags. I'm taking a leaf out of the rear and adding 3000lb airbags. I'm also adding another crossmember.

Another strategy for your consideration. No, it is not mine but an old timer let me in on the secret and it has been used every since. Empty truck and trailer, sit in the drivers seat. Pick your target, aim at it, and memorize. Your are only trying to level the vehicle. Start at the back of the trailer loading heavy items. When you are out of sight of leveling start loading the truck bed from the front to the back. When you are back level, start reloading the trailer from the axles to the front. When you are on target, stop. Drive like you do not have brakes and you will not have problems.

It's a little off the wall but i invest in the equipment that i use every day and rent the things that i only use occasionally.

Any way to rent a box truck for the day ?

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Originally Posted by armygreywolf

My next investment is airbags. I'm taking a leaf out of the rear and adding 3000lb airbags. I'm also adding another crossmember.

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I've had airbags in my last two trucks. They are nice to level you out. Just keep in mind they don't increase your vehicle's legal hauling or towing capacity. Usually have mine at about 50 psi.

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Originally Posted by pjost

Not trying to be a smart a$$ Matador, but nobody here knows your truck or your trailer. You Know your truck and trailer.
Myself, I would not load the truck bed with anything and load the trailer up to 5000lbs. Gross. You load the bed up + the tounge weight and your suspension may not like it. Looks like your saggin pretty good on the pic. Rear pu tires are squatting some too. How are the brakes on your truck and trailer?
The one thing you don't want is to be over 5000 on that trailer, get pulled over by the WY HP, and have them crawling all up inside your colon.

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Truck is squatting in that pic for placement reasons. First off, the bed is loaded out. And on top of that, the heavy stuff is mostly in front of the axles on the trailer. Bumper hitch didn't help any. Everything was yanking down on the bed rather than being balanced out on the frame. Need to keep the leverage of the trailer balanced on the axles and not leaning down on your hitch and you should be able to pull that load without any problem.

That was my first time towing with the truck. I should have put the TVs in the back. I had to remove everything from the school that day, though. They had it outside, and rain was coming. I loaded terribly and just tried to get done before the storm came.

Still, though, the truck was perfectly happy at 55 MPH (My normal towing speed).

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Originally Posted by matador

That was my first time towing with the truck. I should have put the TVs in the back. I had to remove everything from the school that day, though. They had it outside, and rain was coming. I loaded terribly and just tried to get done before the storm came.

Still, though, the truck was perfectly happy at 55 MPH (My normal towing speed).

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oh yeah no worries man, I was just answering pjost on the sagging and all that. the way it is loaded always has a lot to do with that. And if it worked for you, no big deal. But if the load gets bigger, strategy of weight placement comes into play. Not that I do a lot of trailer hauling myself, but back in the day making runs with my dad, we did. He taught me a lot about that sort of stuff, and once in a while still, it comes in handy.

My father taught me some trailering stuff, too. Mostly what not to do ;)

He used to haul straw and hay with his old F250. He beat up his equipment a lot, but he taught me a lot on how to use chains and binders. To this day, he still curses at ratchet straps.

I'm putting together a load on the trailer. I figure I'll start conservatively, and if all goes well, make a larger load next time.

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Originally Posted by pjost

I've had airbags in my last two trucks. They are nice to level you out. Just keep in mind they don't increase your vehicle's legal hauling or towing capacity. Usually have mine at about 50 psi.

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Airbags are nice BUT if you use too much air pressure you will bust your frame in between you airbag and the leaf spring eyelet. Seen many bale bed pickups this away. And 50 psi sounds a bit high but if that works for you go for it.

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Originally Posted by taterjuice

Airbags are nice BUT if you use too much air pressure you will bust your frame in between you airbag and the leaf spring eyelet. Seen many bale bed pickups this away. And 50 psi sounds a bit high but if that works for you go for it.

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I'll keep that in mind tater. Thanks for the heads up.

P.S. I should have mentioned I'm running 50psi on a 1 ton pickup. (Dully with a flat bed)
Yes, on my old half ton 50 was running pretty stiff. Usually ran that half ton @ 30psi or so.

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Originally Posted by pjost

I've had airbags in my last two trucks. They are nice to level you out. Just keep in mind they don't increase your vehicle's legal hauling or towing capacity. Usually have mine at about 50 psi.

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Correct, the tag on my truck has the GVWR at 8600 lbs. With me in it I am 6250lbs. I have D range 37x12.5r17 bfg mud terrain km2 tires, I've got a good handle on things, this monster isn't your run of the mill 1/2 ton.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...118_154938.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...204_232235.jpg

a ram 1500 doesnt have a gvwr of 8600lbs