is it illegal not to have id in America??

You all might have heard about this case that's making the news about reported excessive force by police in Hammond, IN. Supposedly the guy didn't have any id and wouldn't get out of the car to comply with the police. Now, a person is never going to win in the field not complying with the cops but my question is, what were the police going to do with this guy after he couldn't produce id??

This could happen to anyone. Sometimes I've taken off from the house without my wallet so I wouldn't be able to "prove" who I was to the police. So were the cops hoping they would find some weed or something on the guy so they could arrest him or run a warrant check on the name he gave and then arrest him? It appears to me that the cops were on a fishing expedition and had no plan B if this un-id guy came up clean. I know cops have a tough and dangerous job but where goes common sense come into play?? So, it goes back to my question: is it illegal not to have id in the U.S.??

http://abcnews.go.com/US/pair-alleging- ... d=26024762

You do not have to have ID nor do you have to produce and ID to the police. It is not illegal to not comply with LEO without a stated probable cause. (4th and 5th amendments)

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Originally Posted by pwajunkie

You do not have to have ID nor do you have to produce and ID to the police. It is not illegal to not comply with LEO without a stated probable cause. (4th and 5th amendments)

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Yes but when you don't obey an order that is considered resisting law enforcement.

I believe ID is required but I don't have anything to back that up. The thing that sticks out in my mind is the stupidity of not having ID on you

When you're driving a car, you are supposed to have your license on you. I'm pretty sure you can at least be ticketed if you get pulled over and you don't have your license on you, especially if the cop is a ****

one of my favorite shows is cops lol. I actually watched the video and discussed it with my current events team at my high school. there is no charge at all for not having I.d, you can not ever get arrested solemnly on just not having I.d. but it all changes when you dont have id and you tell them false information, that you can be arrested for.

the video itself has no meaning. the guy didnt comply with the cops after being asked several times. window shattered and scared the kids, so what. its protocol.

I have seen videos of people refusing to hand over id at border control spots and they let them fly right through due to constitutional rights, what rights are being broken, I dont exactly know.

final answer: no it not illegal to have id however its always reccomended to have on you just incase of anything happening. i need id to get checks from the yard so I always keep it on me anyway! :)

In NC, resisting arrest is not something you can be charged with, without a underlining charge. Meaning I can't be convinced of the lone charge of resisting without being convicted of another crime that caused the arrest.

Also, you DO NOT have to obey LEO request. If a LEO says "get out of the car" you ask "is that a request or an order?" if it is an order the next question is "what crime am I suspected of?" At that time they MUST tell you what crime they have probable cause the order.

I understand that in Canada, if a person does not have id, the cops can charge them with vagrancy and take them in if they "want" to. Its a way to get people off the street if "someone" wants them gone. For example, to get some undesirables off of the street, like hookers.

J.

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Originally Posted by PickerBenny

the video itself has no meaning. the guy didnt comply with the cops after being asked several times. window shattered and scared the kids, so what. its protocol.
)

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Id like to see where in the handbook it recommends to destroy private property because you have a huge ego and a badge.

Answer to ID question is no, you do not have to have ID on you. Why you wouldn't have something with you i don't know.

As far as a comment made about driving with no license and the officer being a **** if they write you a ticket, well its called unlicensed operation of a vehicle. Also keep in mind that a ticket is issued in lieu of arrest. BUT act like a horses ass and you can be brought in for any ticketable offense. Bust my balls and be sure I will bust yours back and ruin your day.

As far as the video it does not show what happened to cause the officer to ask to see id from the passenger. There was mention of the person reaching into a bag on the floor of the car when the officer approached the car causing the officer to draw his weapon. Not out of the ordinary and not against any regulations I know of to have your gun drawn during a car stop. Car stops are probably the most dangerous thing an officer can do. You are approaching a car with an unknown entity inside.

As far as what that officer did to extract the passenger, ridiculous!!!! As far as i could hear there was no mention of the person breaking any kind of law or that he was wanted for anything else. What happened there is an officer who lost his composer and will probably lose more than that once the investigation is completed.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:l8-l8-:rolleyes:

One of the points that the guy who refused to get out brought up was that he wasn't driving so operating a vehicle couldn't used against him. The initial stop, according to the media--taken for waht's it worth-- was a seat belt infraction by the driver. But most of the attention of the officers was on the male passenger. Suppposedly he had reached into a backpack in the back between the 2 kids to look for his id. Again, as I first said, in the field the majority of the time a person will lose by not complying with a cop. And, like I said, what was the cops plan B if this guy was totally clean but without an id?? Take him in to run fingerprints?

If you want to see some good window busting check out people willfull non-complying with border patrol check point well insde from the border. The classic one is of the guy who wouldn't even roll the window down to talk to the guards and had his a/c running on high. Can barely hear them speak from the outside. This guy was purposely trying to get a confrontation. And he did, with his side window also getting busted in after about the same amount of time elpased (13 minutes of video). I haven't heard how things have gone on after that.

Perosnally, I try to comply as soon as possible and get on my merry way. Maybe I'll tell of the time when the cop surely wanted to find me in violation beyond having a burnt out tail light at night but my lunch break is at end...

A few tips if you get pulled over.....

If at night after stopping your vehicle turn the dome light, roll down your window and put both hands either on the steering wheel or on through the window. Empty hands and light go a long way to placing an officer at ease when approaching your car.

As much as it sucks getting pulled over, take a deep breath and put the attitude in check. Most officers have discretion in issuing a ticket. Unless you blew through a light or stop sign or were doing something totally reckless you may just get a warning if you dont piss them off.

You will sometimes get that officer that no matter what you say or how you act will issue you a ticket. They are known as tools amoungst other officers. Thats the family friendly name we call them, they just like giving tickets.

If you are a passenger in a car that is stopped, don't be a roadside lawyer. It is a sure way to get the driver a ticket and you may end up in the back of the cruiser for obstuctiion. In other words shut your mouth.

I give you these tips from the perspective of being on both sides of a car stop. It sucks getti g pulled over and it is dangerous doing them. Drive safely and I hope the tips above will make your next encounter with " the man" a bit easier.

Under the federal Immigration Reform and Control Act, new employees must present proof that they are legally authorized to work in the United States.

When One Document Is Sufficient
United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS, formerly the INS) periodically updates the list of documents sufficient to prove both identity and eligibility to be employed in the United States. Any one of the following documents is sufficient, on its own, to meet the requirements:

•an unexpired United States passport
•an unexpired foreign passport with an I-551 stamp
•an alien registration receipt card or permanent resident card
•an unexpired employment authorization card
•an unexpired employment authorization document, issued by USCIS, which contains a photograph, or
•an unexpired foreign passport with Form I-94 containing an endorsement of nonimmigrant status.
Documentation Required to Work in the United States | Nolo.com

For Immigrant workers (legal of course)

Photo ID Requirements for Air Travel Within the United States | USA Today
Identification Requirements for Boarding Domestic Flights | eHow
to travel


But No by the constitution the 4th and 5th amendment

You can get a ticket for driving without a license, even if you just forgot your license at home. You do not have to have ID on you at any other time to my knowledge, unless in an establishment requiring you to be over a certain age or if you have consumed/are consuming alcohol and need to prove you are over 21 to an officer for some reason.

An officer could choose to take you to jail for driving without a license if you resist or cause trouble. BUT if you just get a ticket for driving without a license, and actually have a license, you can go to court later and have the ticket dismissed as long as you didn't commit any other crimes or infractions.

Bottom line, keep your hands where the officer can see them and if you need to dig through a bag, under your seat, or your glove box you better communicate with him as to what you're doing. Officers have no way of knowing if you're reaching for ID or a weapon.

Anyone arguing with BC on this really shouldn't being as the man lives an breathes this every day. So he may just have a clue as to what he's talking about. Good fella that BC, just don't anyone tell him I said that, it'll go to his head, an I'll have to listen to it for forever. ;)

Far as not always having ID..I must be stupid then. I walk to my local gas station all the time at night, to grab a soda. I usually don't bring ID with me. I'm not buying anything I need ID for, an I'm not driving, so therefore it'll sit on my dresser in my wallet. Driving? I never leave my ID anywhere if I'm driving. As others said, you'll catch a quick ticket if pulled over an you don't have it on you. Now, most the time if you show up in court it'll be dismissed if you show you do have one an it's all in good order. That's my experience.

On having to show ID..BC answered this. Someone else mentioned a border Patrol stop. You do NOT need to show them "Papers", which is why in countless youtube videos of people doing just this, you see the BP get upset, angry, they then call their boss, who comes over, sees everyone is being a pain in the ass an waves them on.

Cops got a tough job. I do my best to respect them, an always act cool during a traffic stop. Like BC stated..Turn on the lights if it's dark, hands where they can be seen, etc. When I get pulled first thing I do is turn off the car, an hands go on the wheel or up by the window so they can see I'm not doing anything when they approach. They will then ask for license, reg, insurance, etc. All buy my license is under my passenger seat in my van(Has a cubby hole thing) an I always tell them what I'm doing whether there or the glove box. 8 out 10 always thank me for that.

I don't want to be shot, an they don't want to shoot me. Paper work sucks afterall as do doctor visits. LOL. So I try to always be cool. Sometimes you get a ****, an thats when you hit them with kindness it pisses them off a lot.

Just my take, as always..YMMV.

Sirscrapalot - Book'm Danno! - A show older then a lot of you, but way younger then some of you. ;)

It has long been the rule that U.S. citizens don't have to "show their papers" like we live in Nazi Germany. But when you don't know/give up your rights that is YOUR choice.

Driving is a privilege, you are not entitled to a drivers license. If you want to drive you have to follow the laws. Having a license is one of those laws. Dude should have had his license.

On a civil rights note, most people have no idea what their rights are. As others have posted a cop can ask you to do anything he wants to, if you comply to a request that exceeds his authority you are doing so ON YOUR OWN waiving your rights. For example, if you are walking down the street, a cop calls you over to talk to you, and you go over to him. You WAIVED your rights. If you did not stop and kept walking and the cop stops you, you start getting into civil right issues. He "arrested" you by stopping you. He needs probable cause to stop your free movement.

Feds: 75 Percent Of Newark Police Pedestrian Stops Unconstitutional

i cant stand packing a billfold,,,,so mine stays under my truck seat.......so if i am a passenger with someone else i will never have an id.......ive never had 1 problem with not having my id.....ive been pulled over several times while driving and not had one...still no problem.....i just give my social and thats it.......they seem to be more worried about insurance than id....

i actually hate cops,,,,,i have no respect for them at all....in my area they write hard working folks traffic tickets while the meth heads run wild......

on another note when i am stopped i am very polite and conform to anything i am asked to do....unlike alot of folks who like to say ,' well the cops cant do this and they cant do that" i know better...i have been in trouble before,,,i know the cops can do what ever they want...if there not recorded they will get by with it also...sometimes they can even be recorded and still get by with all kinds of horrible stuff......

i was once beaten within an inch of my life by 7 prison guards because i nodded my head to a friend in the lunch line......so i really hate hearing it when folks say oh cops cant do this or that

@ wadarbr549- I respect your opinion and like the saying goes " you cant please all of the people all of the time". One thing I will ask is that please do not lump in prison guards and police officers together. At least where I am from they are two different entities and one job has nothing to do with another.

I've had run in's in with less then professional police. The harassing kind. I have no criminal record, other then a drunk in public charge..I was quite wasted an totally deserved it. I was young an stupid. ;) Now I'm just stupid.

Anyhow, my point is..I don't let my bad interactions with other cops influence ALL my interactions with them. I've dealt with my fair share of being harassed by the police. Now I find being nice works better then being a grumpy ******* to them. The jerk ones just get mad, an the good ones appreciate my awesome attitude. I've never been beaten down by 7 prison guards tho, as..well I've never been to prison. ;) Been roughed up an treated rough by the coppers but it's all good, I'm not the one they need to fear, it's the man who judges us all in the end they need to worry over.

I'm glad I don't let it color my views on all Cops, or else I'd not have a friend in BC, an a few others in that field I call friend. Their not all bad, tho it's all we ever hear about. Then again..when was the last time you saw "good" news reported that wasn't being forced cause it's a holiday or something else.

Sirscrapalot - Smile, it's contagious.

My father and uncle were both police so knowing a lot of officers as people off duty might make me biased. But I kind of just learned if I give my ID and when I do something wrong I admit it I usually get treated respectfully.

We actually had a Marine officer that used to pull people over, on foot. I live in a small town so he was known for being harsh on people. When my friends and I growing up doing whatever kids do that's stupid he would walk over to us. He would announce each of us by name, followed by, "if I walk by here in an hour and see you all still here I'm going to smack the **** out of you." If you knew him it was funny. And you knew to be gone in an hour.

OK can't stay out of this any longer.

when did driving become a privileged that you have to pay continuing fees for. ?

The constitution guarantees the right of un incumbered travel. travel was once horses and wagons, now it's cars and motorcycles

I under the difference, but if you don't learn how to drive a team and wagon or ride a horse they can kill you and others too.

I can understand a driving test Once to show proficiency. I can not understand continuing fees. I pay for my share of the highways every time I buy fuel so, that's not it.

What date did peace officers and policemen/women become LAW ENFORCEMENT officers.

S.W.A.T teams were developed in LA for Hostage situations now they are full fledged military units used for just about every thing. Can you say Posse Comotadis.

IN the old days mps/sps went to the front of the line in peace officer hiring my sources tell me not today they are trained as piece officers not law enforcement and go to the back of the line or out right rejected out right.

No I am not and never have been a police officer but, my dad was a us Marshall for 30 yrs then town Marshall in my home town for 15 more. He never carried his gun,in 15 years the only time he took it out of the bedroom dresser drawer was when some escaped convicts were supposed to be near our town.
sry for the rant but I miss my America so.

Olddude I know on my job the ex-military personel are highly sought after to the point that recruiters are sent to a few military bases handing out applications. Had alot of ex-marines being hired in the last 5 years. Most are gulf war vets. I can not speak for other departments but here it is run as a para-military organization. Ranks from police officer(privates) up to chiefs(generals). They like having new officers who are used to having that structure bei g already ingrained into them so they are easier to train and get them up to speed on how to be a police offier. I notice the difference between the ex-military people and the others who havent had that type of training before.

As far as your other points all I can say is times change and not for the best. Thats what happens when the inmates run the asylum.

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Originally Posted by BRASSCATCHER

@ wadarbr549- I respect your opinion and like the saying goes " you cant please all of the people all of the time". One thing I will ask is that please do not lump in prison guards and police officers together. At least where I am from they are two different entities and one job has nothing to do with another.

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in ohio they can be both.....prison guards can take an extra course or something and become a special deputy ,,,there is a difference....i can tell by the patch on there shoulder....a normal guard is just a co ... but if they are a special deputy then they expect to be refered to as deputy or officer..... what it amounts to is if they get the extra training then they can join the srt team and the swat team...also ,,and i think this is the biggest reason they do it,,,,they can moonlight at football games and high school dances and such events and make extra cash...

the ones that are technically cops are the worst guards ever....especially the real short guys....they all seem to have huge chips on there shoulder....

not all of the guards i met were bad,,,,just like anything else there were good and bad.....the only crappy thing is...when they are bad they are in a position to be really bad, cruel, and just plain awful....and once they commit what ever violent or degrading act they feel like doing,,,the ones that are decent guards may not partake of the wrong doing,,,but they are quick to close there eyes,,,,or just walk into the bathroom or something

Enjoyable thread.

Thank you all.

Carry on.

Sirscrapalot - There's only two people in your life you should lie to... the police and your girlfriend. - Jack Nicholson

I try and carry ID at all times...if something were to happen I would want my wife notified as quickly as possible so that critical decisions can be made.

I tell two stories about being stopped by local law and then I’m done with this thread.

About a dozen years ago my folks moved into a retirement village and sold their house of 41 years. This meant I had to empty all my junk that I had been storing in their basement since I had gotten married. I built a lot of military models when I was young so had numerous boxes (most of them diaper boxes as we had young kids) full of model planes, tanks, ships, etc. I also had some bachelor furniture, some even home made that the wifey didn’t want in our house that I had in their basement. Anyway, for whatever reason I loaded up the 87 Dodge pu I had as a secondary vehicle with all this junk and was headed over to my SiL’s place to store my boxes of models.

It was Dec. and dark probably just before 9 pm. The SiL lives in a tougher part of town but probably pretty tame when compared with some of the neighborhoods you all deal with. At a stop light I noticed a cruiser get in behind me. The light goes green, I drive about a block & half, signal a left hand turn, and then he lights me up. I stop just beyond an intersection.

I wasn’t exactly looking like a corporate lawyer. Wearing a stocking cap (its winter remember), an old Army fatigue jacket with a hooded zippered sweatshirt as a liner. The cop asks me for the general particulars at the window and says I have a tail or brake light out (can’t remember which). Asks me what I doing as he shines his flashlight over all my junk in the bed of the truck (luckily nothing looked like too much value). He asks me to get out of the truck so we can talk some more.

We get out and he shines the flash in my eyes (I suppose to see if there was noticeable drug use) then he asks me if I have any weapons on me, makes me open my coat and unzip the sweatshirt. I think he even did a quick pat down in back (can’t remember for sure). Then we get into his car and I end up repeating my story about 3 more times in different orders. Maybe standard mo to get bad guys to slip up in telling lies but he just found it hard to believe that I would moving this stuff at night. Sure seems he wanted to find something illegit in what I was doing. He finally wrote me a ticket for the bad light and let me go on my way. I had 3 days to prove up that I fixed the light.

Can’t remember why I didn’t get to fixing it the next night (we had a single garage at the time and the wifey’s car was inside so any repairs to the truck were outside). Finally, a couple of nights later, in much colder temps then the traffic stop, I get the new bulb in the truck’s taillights, and head down to the cop shop to “prove Up” that I fixed it. The building has a public foyer that has an officer behind locked glass that can answer questions. I produce the warning ticket and I assume that the desk sgt. was going to come out behind the desk and check out my truck. Nope, he isn’t going to go out into the cold. I start talking about what the problem was, and blah, blah, and the sgt. Looks up from his desk with my ticket in hand and says, “you want me to sign this or not”. OK, I can take a hint and I shut up. The ticket gets signed with no proof that I fixed the violation and viola, off I go on my merry way back home. And so it goes.

The other (shorter) story in the morning.

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Originally Posted by PickerBenny

one of my favorite shows is cops lol. I actually watched the video and discussed it with my current events team at my high school. there is no charge at all for not having I.d, you can not ever get arrested solemnly on just not having I.d. but it all changes when you dont have id and you tell them false information, that you can be arrested for.

the video itself has no meaning. the guy didnt comply with the cops after being asked several times. window shattered and scared the kids, so what. its protocol
I have seen videos of people refusing to hand over id at border control spots and they let them fly right through due to constitutional rights, what rights are being broken, I dont exactly know.

final answer: no it not illegal to have id however its always reccomended to have on you just incase of anything happening. i need id to get checks from the yard so I always keep it on me anyway! :)

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Picker benny i love cops to im actullay watching it right now. I DVR It and try to watch it after work. I also watch while im in bed , i laugh so hard my parents have to tell me to quite down. I love it. I dont have a problem with police officers . Plus once in a blue moon you will see an attractive female officer ;)

My last story about being stopped by the law is more recent and actually deals with scrapping.

As I’ve mentioned in another thread, I (we) gather bulkier steel items out at my bro’s country place and then when good amount has built up, we take it in. He has a 2003 F 250 diesel pu but this load was going to be bigger than just the box so a trailer was needed. He didn’t want to take his bigger trailer for whatever reason (can’t remember for sure—maybe not licensed for the year—how ironic that would be if true) so he runs next door to the neighbor who has a smaller trailer and hooks it up and we get started loading.

The only true “yard” in the bigger town next to me closes fairly earlier on Saturdays (11 AM I think) and its pushing 10 when we get finished and on the road. Get on the hard top that leads to a state highway that goes into town, we pass a popular local lake area. There are signs about some sort of triathlon going on and we see a state hypo driving slow (I suppose in support of the people running and such so drivers are paying more attention). We don’t think anything about it. Bro stops the truck at the stop sign at the state highway and gets out to check the tie downs on the load to make sure they’re secure. About that time, the state hypo has turned around and is now pulling up behind.

We turn onto the state highway heading towards the yard when the hypo lights us up about a quarter mile down from the stop sign. I think for sure it has something to due with how the scrap load is secured. Hypo walks up and I can’t remember if he asked the questions first before telling what the infraction was or not. “Hey, you’re bleeding!” he says to bro, who had snagged himself with some chain link fence while we were loading. The retired Col. also has a skin condition that shows bruising a lot easier than most people so his arms often look like h***. He explains why he’s bleeding. “Hey, you guys have bug spray on?” Why yes, we do, lots of skeeters out about then in the early morning at the country place and we had dosed ourselves to keep them under control. Couldn’t tell if this question was just a mere statement of fact or that bug spray has now some new use in covering up drug use or making? Another question or two and finally, the infraction; the trailer doesn’t have current tags on it, by several years (bro and I both groan in unison).

The rest was sort of anti-climatic. A warning ticket is written. The hypo also comments on the numerous cracks that bro’s truck windshield has but don’t think a ticket was written for that. I know that bro had at least one loaded pistol in the truck, perhaps two (we both have CCs; I rarely use mine, he does whenever he drives). There was no questions about weapons and no information was volunteered. Later, the bro was talking with a guy he knows from Guards who works as a county deputy and this guy said that because the truck had National Guard plates on it, the hypo may have been a bit easier on us because they don’t know if the driver was on official business or not (but with a big load of scrap, probably doubtful for official duty). Or maybe the hypo was just a decent guy, a bit more inquisitive than I might be, but just doing his job. The upside was that we made it to the yard and got rid of the load before it closed. And, the bro took another, less traveled route home so to avoid another stop by the law if they saw the expired trailer tags.

About 25ish years ago around midnight, my brother ran out to get something out of his truck outside the townhouse he lived at and the door locks behind him. He's trying to get in (wife is sound asleep) when police roll up and start questioning him. ID is in the house so after a bit they believe that he lives there and then say that he has a unpaid ticket for "Dog at Large". Bro say's that he thought the wife had paid that but he will take care of it first thing in the morning. Not good enough for them...it had gone to warrant and they took him to jail.

Wife never woke up and didn't hear the phone when he called from jail so he called me...picked him up just in time to make last call at the watering hole.

KzS- Man, that's just crazy. A guy couldn't write that script for a tv show or movie that good. Does your bro smile about it now??

Bureaucracies love things they can count. Its called metrics. A lower manager can show a higher manager who adds more metrics into reports, etc. all the way up the line. Makes it appear that whatever the entity is, they are doing something!! Busting your brother that night for an old warrant did nothing to make the city safer or to make it more money that night or whatever. The only thing it did was to add to a count somewhere that could go into a metrics dump. It didn't matter what effort it took to bring your brother to jail and potentially someone else was victimized because a couple of officers were busy with this "event" or did it matter the stress your brother endured for such a silly waste of time. But it counted somewhere for some mostly faceless manager to the public and got added into the grand metrics that the department was out there doing their job.

Repeat different agency, different mission, same overwhelming need for managers to prove themselves worthy. I see it everyday if I'm forced to watch. Luckily, I can spend most of my time ignoring bureaucrats as much as possible. Only when things are mandatory do I have to listen to them. But my work still ends up in a metrics count...

IMO cops think they are special people and different then the rest of us, there are a lot of law obeying and hard working citizens. Do they have a hard job? Yes they do and so do a lot of the rest of us! Cops get a pass on a lot, the rest of us get a citation for. I personally think it's a myth that they are held to a higher standard.